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Post subject: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:32 am
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alrighty- my allen accomplice jr. amp can use 6l6 tubes (currently in amp) or 6v6 tubes.

the 6l6"s put out about 30 watts, and the 6v6 will be about 22. is there any advantage to changing over to the 6v6's, other than a slight volume reduction? it has external bias test points, so it will be easy for me to do.
on a side note- in an earlier post I was mentioning how I felt the gain was coming on a bit too early. I was thinking about changing pre-amp tubes. I spent a day playing back and forth. decided to lower the volume on my guitar from 8 to about 5, began playing with the volume and master controls, and lo and behold, I was getting a great clean sound at a higher volume.. I had been playing with the guitar volume up for so many years that this just didn't occur to me. I used to be so smart-what happened?


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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:52 am
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I would post your question in Modern Amplifier section. Experts are there.


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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:23 am
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I can't say whether it will impact sound other than likely earlier breakup due to lower wattage, but I do believe one of the advertised advantages of 6V6 was that it could reach operational temperature faster. Which was a selling point back in the steam radio days.
I don't know whether that benefit requires amp changes too, like compensating the lower voltage with a transformer delivering more amps. The amp guys would likely know.


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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:45 am
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phreddybee wrote:
alrighty- my allen accomplice jr. amp can use 6l6 tubes (currently in amp) or 6v6 tubes.

the 6l6"s put out about 30 watts, and the 6v6 will be about 22. is there any advantage to changing over to the 6v6's, other than a slight volume reduction? it has external bias test points, so it will be easy for me to do.
on a side note- in an earlier post I was mentioning how I felt the gain was coming on a bit too early. I was thinking about changing pre-amp tubes. I spent a day playing back and forth. decided to lower the volume on my guitar from 8 to about 5, began playing with the volume and master controls, and lo and behold, I was getting a great clean sound at a higher volume.. I had been playing with the guitar volume up for so many years that this just didn't occur to me. I used to be so smart-what happened?


I've come to like the 6V6GT. Warmer mids. Slower, earlier OD. Sweet harmonics. Prolly best to have an amp that is setup, solely for the 6V6GT. A LOT of the magic is in the irons used. An amp that takes 6L6GC tubes will have oversized trannies wrt the 6V6GT.


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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:54 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
[ . A LOT of the magic is in the irons used. An amp that takes 6L6GC tubes will have oversized trannies wrt the 6V6GT.


Some say a bigger iron bring something more to the tone ( or different ? )

$28 a pair of JJ's 6V6 , very cheap to know if you'll like.

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/6 ... lectronics


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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:59 pm
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With everything else being equal (which is rarely the case):
- 6V6 should have a little more sparkle on top and a spongier bottom end.
- 6L6 should have a little more clean headroom and a tighter bottom end while having a mild scoop in the mids.

As far as voltages go there will be some differences but we have the right guys here to help you out with that.

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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:43 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
With everything else being equal (which is rarely the case):
- 6V6 should have a little more sparkle on top and a spongier bottom end.
- 6L6 should have a little more clean headroom and a tighter bottom end while having a mild scoop in the mids.


+1

It'd be interesting to know the primary winding impedance of the output tranny. The plate-to-plate impedance for a pair of 6V6's is roughly 6.6kΩ while a pair of 6L6's measures circa 8.0kΩ. I'd expect the tranny is wound for some happy medium (say, 7.1kΩ) to prevent an extreme mismatch for either tube set.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:22 am
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Primary impedance; Tube amp Talk by Gerald Weber page 340

Higher impedance can tend to get less high en and perhaps a little more botom
.......result of spongier attack enveloppe.
The converse is also true. Lower impedance can usually get a little more crunch and harmonics.

In guitar amp desing, impedance is chosen to get the best sound.
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In 2009-2010 paper catalog, Antique Electronic show many Hammond Transformers wich they are recommanded to use 6L6 and 6V6 ,
Impedance go from 5,000 ohms to 7,600


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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:25 am
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With 6V6 phreddybee, may hear a different tone because of the transformer impedance , not only because it is 6V6.
Same with 6L6 ?


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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:09 am
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I ordered a set of 6v6's just for fun- I do like to tinker!

according to allen amps, you can use either tube for this amp-its' really easy to adjust the bias, so it should just be a few minutes. no need to remove the chassis.

I should have them in a few days, and i'll report my findings. thanks again for all the great advice-best forum anywhere.


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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:11 am
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Have fun. Allen builds a pretty solid amp so you should get years of service out of it.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:27 pm
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What kind of 6V6s did you order, Freddie?

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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:37 pm
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phreddybee wrote:
I ordered a set of 6v6's just for fun- I do like to tinker!

.



+1


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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:24 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
BMW-KTM wrote:
With everything else being equal (which is rarely the case):
- 6V6 should have a little more sparkle on top and a spongier bottom end.
- 6L6 should have a little more clean headroom and a tighter bottom end while having a mild scoop in the mids.

+1

It'd be interesting to know the primary winding impedance of the output tranny. The plate-to-plate impedance for a pair of 6V6's is roughly 6.6kΩ while a pair of 6L6's measures circa 8.0kΩ. I'd expect the tranny is wound for some happy medium (say, 7.1kΩ) to prevent an extreme mismatch for either tube set.

Arjay

Hi phreddybee,
You might like using JAN-Philips 6L6WGB power tubes, which is a great tube in lower voltage amps (i.e. 435 plate voltage amps - check with your amp manufacturer), which are rated for plate voltage up to 500 volts.
I think you might like 6L6WGB power tubes better than going to 6V6s, as I'm a big fan of JAN-Philips 6L6WGB power tubes.

I use these JAN-Philips 6L6WGB tubes in a Blues Deluxe Reissue and they sound great, at a wattage slightly reduced from using 6L6GCs, with earlier breakup and much more sparkle than 6L6GCs.

6L6WGB or 5581 power tubes should not be set higher than 70 milliamps, or they will probably have a short life.
I recommend 60-70 Milli-volts Bias Setting for both tubes (30-35 milliamps per tube).

The JAN-Philips 6L6WGB, are NOS military grade tubes built to very high quality standards.
"Matched" JAN-Philips 6L6WGB power tubes can still be found here:

https://www.kcanostubes.com/content/nos ... ips-6l6wgb
https://tubedepot.com/products/6l6wgb-5881

If you need more headroom with 6L6WGB power tubes, try two (2)... [or three (3)]... JAN 5751 preamp tubes in place of your V1, V2, and possibly V3, 12AX7 preamp tubes.
Leave the phase inverter 12AX7 tube in place, which I assume is V4 in your Allen Accomplice, Jr. amp.

The Philips brand is hard to find, but US made JAN 5751s can be found here:
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/us-m ... ilips-5751

You can experiment with different combinations of preamp tubes without hurting anything.
And don’t waste any money getting “matched” preamp tubes, as this is an unnecessary waste of money.

In Fender Amps such as mine, which have only 3 preamp tubes, the V3 preamp tube is the phase inverter tube, which is furthest away from the power tubes.
I use the following combination.
(V1)-5751 -- (V2)-5751 -- (V3)-12AX7

I would imagine your amp may be of a similar design, as it is my understanding that the Allen Accomplice Jr., is generally based on the Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb (or, DRRI) without the reverb circuit.

Check out the following article regarding amplifier phase inverters:
http://www.recycledsound.net/14_Phase_Inverter.pdf

In V1, going from a 12AX7 to a 5751, reduces front end gain (from 100 to 60-70), and provides more clean headroom.

I advise not going down to a 12AY7 (gain of 40). in V1, as gain is reduced way too far.

If you consider going from a 12AX7 to a 12AT7 in the Phase Inverter (V3), I recommend the following combination:

(V1)-5751 -- (V2)-12AX7 -- (V3)-12AT7

As the linked article notes, a 5751 and 12AX7 are much more closely related than the 5751 and 12AT7.
A 12AT7 is not recommended in a first gain stage (V1).

If you want to drop front end gain use a 5751.

Hope this helps in your propensity for tinkering...... :mrgreen:


Last edited by MickJagger on Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: 6l6 vs. 6v6
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:51 pm
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MickJagger wrote:
6L6WGB or 5581 power tubes should not be set higher than 70 Milli-volts, or they will probably have a short life.
I recommend 60-70 Milli-volts Bias Setting for both tubes (30-35 Milli-volts per tube).


Bias settings are always measured in milliamps.

Arjay

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