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Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:18 pm
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nikininja wrote:
If you think the test was no good? Find me or conduct a better one. :wink:

A strong belief in one's own golden ears, backed up with enough aggressiveness and arrogancy, will overcome every scientific research result that differs from one's own opinions. 8)

PS: In the about eighties it was a fact that weight equals sustain...


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Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:00 am
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For me, it's not so much hate as it is disdain, largely because of stupid beliefs like this, presented as "conclusive proof" when it is really nothing more than fluff. There is no "tonewood myth", it is a fact that different types of woods can produce different effects on the sound of a musical instrument. Try your case with Mr Taylor, Mr Martin, Stradivarius, on and on..... I'm sure they would all get a good laugh from this. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:04 am
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nikininja wrote:
As for pickup heights that is only a factor with Fender type singlecoils. And humbuckers, you can get them as close to the strings without touching. With no magnetic pull on the string.

Absolutely not true.
Whether it's a single coil or a humbucker does not affect this. From an electromagnetic perspective, a humbucker is just two single coil pickups next to each other. That does not change the fundamental of all passive pickups: they create a magnetic field, which the string moves through, and the energy that the string loses due to the magnetic field is picked up by the coil, and produces voltage.
Unless it's an active pickup, the pickup cannot produce more energy than what it gains from dampening the strings.

nikininja wrote:
It would be detrimental to the Strat, which got better results.

A humbucker is two single-coil pickups in a RPRW configuration, right next to each other. If pickup height and magnet strength per pickup were the same, the LP should be counted as four pickups to the Strat's three.
But it's not that simple - the magnetic field strength differs based on the magnets used and the pickup height.

nikininja wrote:
As for tension from the truss rod. All a truss rod does is counteract string tension to achieve a desired amount of bow. So less tension from the strings, less tension applied at the trussrod to counteract it.

No, that's not all it does. It counteracts the wood moving, from other factors than the string pull too, like wood type, grain orientation, wood age and humidity.
But even for a simplified system where you only consider the strings, you're not counteracting tension, you're counteracting movement by adding opposite vector tension. The overall tension increases.

Or, to put it another way, the strings pull the wood in one direction, and the truss rod pulls the wood the other direction. That does not decrease the pull on the wood.
If someone pulls your arm, and you counteract the pull, your arm doesn't experience less pull. The tension on your arm increases compared to if you just let the arm be pulled.

For a guitar neck, the increased tension increases rigidity / reduces elasticity in the wood, and the more rigid something is, the better it becomes at transferring instead of absorbing energy. So when you tighten the truss rod, it has the side effect of making the neck stiffer, and it absorbs less energy from the string vibration.


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Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:19 pm
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Well I'm loving that you're all thinking about it. Let's address a few things. Electric guitars aren't the acoustic instruments that Strad, Taylor and Martin make. You can't use them as an example of how an electric guitar works.

If humbuckers are RWRP close proximity coils, they cancel out their own pull.

Wood grain doesn't move much when you keep an instrument in a constant sort of climate. Their not alive, they don't breathe. Sealer and paint sees to that. Non of it is porous, is it?

As for ears being the golden unbeatable judge. Yeah absolutely. It all comes down to preference.
My point is that sometimes common misconception is enough to fool the ears.

Yeah the tests not perfect, by any means. I've been asking for someone to spectograph a couple guitars sound for years. Since 2008 I think. And forum user Twelvebar pointed out that you'd have to build a machine to pick the strings. To ensure even pressure applied across different instruments.
However, it's the best I've seen.

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Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:26 pm
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Undertaken with supportive research in mind or
with exhaustive research in mind?
I always have to ask.
kuvash


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Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:30 pm
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I approach music gear tone tests with skepticism.
Particularly tests in which the testing and results are submitted in writing rather than captured by video.
I think it's harder to hide certain aspects of testing and evaluating when you show the testing being done.

Unless such a testor expresses a significant level of believable surprise at the findings I usually assume testing is done to gather support for an existing theory or opinion.
That said, even then you can't be sure. Sometimes a testor will feign surprise when in reality they were secretly hoping their results would upset apple carts even before they began.

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Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:50 am
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Twelvebar Twelvebar wherefore art thou Twelvebar?
It is the blues and the way one pays their dues.

Haven't seen him in awhile Niki.

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Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:18 am
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Did we not see a video that undertook to apply consistency to the plucked strings to measure sustain?

Some kind of piece of paper that broke at a specific tension, wrapped around the string and pulled on until broken.

Seems to me the guy didn't use actual guitars because he wanted to remove various nuts, bridges and other hardware from the equation.
He fabricated a simple slab of wood with a simple and consistent method of attaching and tensioning a string to it, used the same pickup, jack, wiring and cables in each piece of wood, used the special paper to pluck a single string consistently and tuned to a consistent pitch and then used an oscilloscope to measure the sustain.
If memory serves I think his experiment proved conventional tonewood wisdom prevailed; ie: harder & stiffer equals more sustain.

Since he was only testing pure unfinished wood samples and not using actual guitars, his experiments shed zero light on things like neck joint construction, laminated tops, type of finish, etc.

I remember watching the vid several times, looking for a reason to fault his methods and found none.
I should have bookmarked that link.

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Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


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Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:42 pm
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I have two electrics among my guitars that have to
me anyway, way more sustain. The Fender tele has
always been good but got even better. At Fender,I
was told it can happen as the resins and moisture
content change over time,as glue/adhesives cure
and dry as well. The other guitar is an SG and has
always had great sustain from the start,at Gibson
they said in any production run of guitars they will
vary while they all may have "good" sustain every
now and then you will find one that the wood the
hardware the set of neck the fretboard the nut the pickup set up,adjustment and height,strings all of it
will come together just right and you will find that
one guitar that has "great"sustain. After that I quit
comparing,for me,if it has great sustain every time
I play...through any amp...I keep it or keep looking.
kuvash


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Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:52 am
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Could you go out for a bite during the sustain and come back to a ringing guitar? Would Nigel Tufnel agree? (Just kidding)


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