It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:07 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:54 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 15336
Location: In a galaxy far far away
If you don't already.
To further dispel the tonewood myth. Conclusive proof that a Strat sustains longer than a Les Paul. At least in the lower register.

http://www.cycfi.com/2013/11/sustain-myth-science/

_________________
No no and no


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:54 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 19025
Location: Illinois, USA
Thanks for the link Niki :D

_________________
you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:44 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
Posts: 25353
Location: Witness Protection Program
El Becko didn't switch for just the trem.

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:52 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
Great reading, Niki.

I'm betting anybody who hates you because of this article was never really worth having as a friend/acquaintance anyway.

:idea:

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:18 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:50 pm
Posts: 4602
Location: ˚ɷ˚
nikininja wrote:
If you don't already.
To further dispel the tonewood myth. Conclusive proof that a Strat sustains longer than a Les Paul. At least in the lower register.

Where do I even start?
- Sustain and tonewood are two separate things.
- Without knowing the pickup height and magnet strength, the test is worthless to start with. The magnet dampens the string. If it didn't, there would be no sound at all - it's the energy stolen from the string that creates a voltage in the pickup. The stronger the magnets and the closer to the string, the more dampening (and louder attack).
- A larger scale length means more sustain, because the mass of the vibrating part of the string increases. Compare a bolt-neck with the same scale length as the LP, and we get a more valid comparison.
- The string gauge and composition likewise affects the mass, and also the stiffness and amplitude of the vibrating part of the string. There's no mention of the strings being used.
- The test says that there's a myth that "A guitar with heavy and dense wood will sustain longer". I have never heard that, and I think the author is out to knock down strawmen here. A harder wood absorbs less energy, and thus reduces sustain less. Hardness can be related to density, but that's not a given. Swamp ash and maple are harder woods than mahogany, which in turn is harder than alder and basswood.
- The truss rod affects neck stiffness, which in turn affects sustain. How much tension was each neck under?

There are so many things wrong with this "test" that it can summarily be dismissed. It's not even worthy of being a single datum point.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:28 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
arth1 wrote:
There are so many things wrong with this "test" that it can summarily be dismissed. It's not even worthy of being a single datum point.


+1

There are just too many variables that cannot be precisely correlated for a valid comparison.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:14 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Retroverbial wrote:
arth1 wrote:
There are so many things wrong with this "test" that it can summarily be dismissed. It's not even worthy of being a single datum point.


+1

There are just too many variables that cannot be precisely correlated for a valid comparison.

Arjay



+1


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:01 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 15336
Location: In a galaxy far far away
Personally I'd take it as the strings being the same gauge. Not concrete but unlikely that they aren't. As for manufacture, hexagonal cores are the standard. And really is there 4 seconds worth of difference between 2 sets of strings from different manufacturers? The once common myth was that all strings are made in the same factory.
As for pickup heights that is only a factor with Fender type singlecoils. And humbuckers, you can get them as close to the strings without touching. With no magnetic pull on the string. It would be detrimental to the Strat, which got better results. It does however offer maybe a grain of insight as to the reason the LP sustained marginally better at the upper register. String being pushed closer to the polepieces.
As for tension from the truss rod. All a truss rod does is counteract string tension to achieve a desired amount of bow. So less tension from the strings, less tension applied at the trussrod to counteract it.

If you think the test was no good? Find me or conduct a better one. :wink:

_________________
No no and no


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:21 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
nikininja wrote:

If you think the test was no good? Find me or conduct a better one. :wink:


Few guitars built same day may have different sustain, Les Paul or Strat.
You can't talk about all Strat or all Les Paul.
No test available.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:56 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 15336
Location: In a galaxy far far away
Trust me, there ain't that much variance

_________________
No no and no


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:00 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
nikininja wrote:
Trust me, there ain't that much variance


I heard some and I'm not the only one.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:08 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 15336
Location: In a galaxy far far away
Quote:
The waveforms are normalized such that the maximum absolute sample value of both waveforms is at 0db. This step is intended to level out any variations in pickup output. The absolute maximum power is irrelevant anyway: we are interested in the rate of decay

_________________
No no and no


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:12 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 15336
Location: In a galaxy far far away
The point of the test shows that you can't trust your ears to not be clouded by the popular misconceptions in your mind. 10 seconds extra sustain isn't imaginary or accidental. Or a result of a particularly visually pleasing wood grain.

I suggest you re-read the link and maybe even click a few links within it.

_________________
No no and no


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:29 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
I think the part of the test that pleases me the most is their acknowledgement of the effect of amplification on sustain. They're careful to avoid it but admit it exists. Give me an overdriven amplifier and I can make any guitar sustain. Now I'm wondering if there's more to it than just SPL; if perhaps grind/crunch/distortion has an affect on sustain. And if so, is it possible that humbuckers pushing the front end of an amp harder than single coils have lead people for years to believe one guitar sustains more than another when in reality it's due to distortion?

Possible?
I'm gonna chew on that for a spell.
Maybe run a couple of trials.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: You're all gonna hate me.
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:46 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
BMW-KTM wrote:
Give me an overdriven amplifier and I can make any guitar sustain.


+1000!

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Mr. Nylon and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: