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Post subject: learning scales
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:25 pm
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I'm trying to learn major scales right now, just the main ones though such as, B, C, G, A, and E, I think, and am having trouble with it... I can't ever figure out how the first eight notes go, I know that once I play the first eight notes the next eight are exactly the same notes just in different places, so you can just "trace" the first ones, but without knowing the first ones that does me no good.
can anyone help me?

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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:50 pm
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Scales are just a group of notes arranged in a certain way. Learn the intervals and you can transpose what you play across the neck depending on the tonic (root note)

The scale shapes (boxes) are a convenient way of illustrating the intervals.

I think thats correct. I've not been playing long just trying to wrap my head around them myself.

I'd suggest learning the minor pentatonic first as it is by far the most commonly used scale in rock and shares similarities with the major pentantonic scale in the box shapes. Also the blues pentatonic is just the minor p with a couple of added notes.

If you need anymore help you're going to have to wait for someone with a fuller knowledge of theory to come in ;)

/e: I'm at work so I obviously don't have any bookmarks but I did a quick google and it brought up http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1668763 which seems to explain things quite well :)


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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:24 pm
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Go to this website http://www.justinsandercoe.com and go to the scales section. It will have a sub section for major scales. It gives you all 5 positions that you really need. Learn the first position back and forth adn upsdie down. Learn to solo just in that position and then move to the next position and do the same. You will soon be able to solo all over the fretboard.

It is boring practice, but necesary. Good luck


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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:32 pm
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I pretty much threw the scales out the window and just started playing... I'm doing pretty well too

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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:41 pm
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poorboy56 wrote:
I pretty much threw the scales out the window and just started playing... I'm doing pretty well too

ya thats what i did too and my teacher is telling me to learn them becuase they will help alot. I understand where he is coming from though because if you ever wanna make up your own stuff you need to know how to play in key. But they are so blasted irritating to learn!!

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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:26 pm
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mshardie wrote:
Go to this website http://www.justinsandercoe.com and go to the scales section. It will have a sub section for major scales. It gives you all 5 positions that you really need. Learn the first position back and forth adn upsdie down. Learn to solo just in that position and then move to the next position and do the same. You will soon be able to solo all over the fretboard.

It is boring practice, but necesary. Good luck


Just to add to this.. please don't learn the 5 scale shapes and see them as seperate entities. The box shapes are only to help you remember, you need to work beyond that which is why its always good to learn the notes/intervals themselves.


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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:47 pm
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I was a teacher myself and I'm considering starting to teach again because there's so much interest in playing guitar these days. Now I don't know how much you know about steps and such, but a major scale can be looked at in steps if you will. Every major scale consists of 7 steps which would be: whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half. In the case of the major "C" scale you have: C to D (whole step), D to E (whole step), E to F (half step), F to G (whole step), G to A (whole step), A to B (whole step), and B to C (half step). As you look at your fretboard, every fret is a half step.

Now looking at your fretboard (we're going to assume that you're tuning to "E" or 440 hertz) we'll start on the low "E" string to make things easier. This scale shape would be: 8th fret (C), 10th fret (D), 12th fret (E), now the "A" string, 8th fret (F), 10th fret (G), 12th fret (A), now the "D" string, 9th fret (B), 10th fret (C). I know it's harder to understand an explanation rather than to actually see it done, but I hope that this may help you out brother.

If you check out my web page, you'll see a few "ideas" that I recorded even though the recordings are crappy because I still don't know how to run the program correctly and I'm using a mic for recording (in other words it sounds perfect through the amp and monitors, but kind of wierd through the recording). Anyhow there you'll see how you can combine modes, ect. to give you different sounds and moods like "When Phrygian Meets Aeolian", "G Minor Lost It's Mind Again", and "F Around" (written in the key of "F" which is tough to write in).

If I can get some tab templates for the computer (I prefer actual notation being classically trained), then I can post some scales, modes, arpeggios, ect. up here for everyone's benefit that REALLY wants to learn how to play correctly. For now that's enough explanation. Rock on bro!!! :twisted:

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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:08 pm
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Shreddin wrote:
I was a teacher myself and I'm considering starting to teach again because there's so much interest in playing guitar these days. Now I don't know how much you know about steps and such, but a major scale can be looked at in steps if you will. Every major scale consists of 7 steps which would be: whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half. In the case of the major "C" scale you have: C to D (whole step), D to E (whole step), E to F (half step), F to G (whole step), G to A (whole step), A to B (whole step), and B to C (half step). As you look at your fretboard, every fret is a half step.

Now looking at your fretboard (we're going to assume that you're tuning to "E" or 440 hertz) we'll start on the low "E" string to make things easier. This scale shape would be: 8th fret (C), 10th fret (D), 12th fret (E), now the "A" string, 8th fret (F), 10th fret (G), 12th fret (A), now the "D" string, 9th fret (B), 10th fret (C). I know it's harder to understand an explanation rather than to actually see it done, but I hope that this may help you out brother.

If you check out my web page, you'll see a few "ideas" that I recorded even though the recordings are crappy because I still don't know how to run the program correctly and I'm using a mic for recording (in other words it sounds perfect through the amp and monitors, but kind of wierd through the recording). Anyhow there you'll see how you can combine modes, ect. to give you different sounds and moods like "When Phrygian Meets Aeolian", "G Minor Lost It's Mind Again", and "F Around" (written in the key of "F" which is tough to write in).

If I can get some tab templates for the computer (I prefer actual notation being classically trained), then I can post some scales, modes, arpeggios, ect. up here for everyone's benefit that REALLY wants to learn how to play correctly. For now that's enough explanation. Rock on bro!!! :twisted:

WOW thank you! there was alot of info in there!!

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Playing your guitar is an addiction after your first riff you just can't stop. Kind of like raisins you taste one then eat them by the handful.
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:14 pm
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ok, now I have another question...

I learned the 1st position (E):
Image
and I know how to make it not sound like a scale, but how do I tie it in with another position, say like postion 2 (D):
Image
because I thought that the notes from one position wouldn't fit in with the other position... am I wrong? please help me!!

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Playing your guitar is an addiction after your first riff you just can't stop. Kind of like raisins you taste one then eat them by the handful.
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:53 am
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I think that at the point you're at right now trying to "tie" things together would be better explained through MODES. There are 7 modes in music all of which give you a different "feel" to the same scale progression. Let's use the "G" major scale as an example. The notes in this scale are G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G. Now starting on the low "E" string we go to the 3rd fret which is "G". This scale looks like this:

Low "E" (frets)- 3, 5, 7
"A" (frets)- 3, 5, 7
"D" (frets)- 4, 5, 7
"G" (frets)- 4, 5, 7
"B" (frets)- 5, 7
High "E" (frets)- 3

Now going to mode #2 what you do is move up one note in the original scale and start over playing the same notes in the scale, but 1 step higher up the neck like this:

Low "E" (frets)- 5, 7, 8
"A" (frets)- 5, 7
"D" (frets)- 4, 5, 7
"G" (frets)- 4, 5, 7
"B" (frets)- 4, 6, 7
High "E" (frets)- 5

So in the first progression we played the "G" scale through 2 octaves across the board, then in the second progression we started with "A" (which is the second note in the "G" scale) and played the same notes that the "G" scale consists of across the board for 2 more octaves from "A" to "A". You can just keep going up the neck like this moving one note at a time through the notes of the "G" major scale as you go. After you do this a few times, then you'll start to see how the fretboard becomes one unit rather than just a bunch of strings and confusing frets.

I hope this helps you out, but I like to actually "show" people how it's done by playing it for them because it sinks in a lot faster. I think that you'll catch on to it though brother. Good Luck!!! :D

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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:18 am
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Shreddin wrote:
I think that at the point you're at right now trying to "tie" things together would be better explained through MODES. There are 7 modes in music all of which give you a different "feel" to the same scale progression. Let's use the "G" major scale as an example. The notes in this scale are G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G. Now starting on the low "E" string we go to the 3rd fret which is "G". This scale looks like this:

Low "E" (frets)- 3, 5, 7
"A" (frets)- 3, 5, 7
"D" (frets)- 4, 5, 7
"G" (frets)- 4, 5, 7
"B" (frets)- 5, 7
High "E" (frets)- 3

Now going to mode #2 what you do is move up one note in the original scale and start over playing the same notes in the scale, but 1 step higher up the neck like this:

Low "E" (frets)- 5, 7, 8
"A" (frets)- 5, 7
"D" (frets)- 4, 5, 7
"G" (frets)- 4, 5, 7
"B" (frets)- 4, 6, 7
High "E" (frets)- 5

So in the first progression we played the "G" scale through 2 octaves across the board, then in the second progression we started with "A" (which is the second note in the "G" scale) and played the same notes that the "G" scale consists of across the board for 2 more octaves from "A" to "A". You can just keep going up the neck like this moving one note at a time through the notes of the "G" major scale as you go. After you do this a few times, then you'll start to see how the fretboard becomes one unit rather than just a bunch of strings and confusing frets.

I hope this helps you out, but I like to actually "show" people how it's done by playing it for them because it sinks in a lot faster. I think that you'll catch on to it though brother. Good Luck!!! :D

wow, thank you so much! you have a been a great help! :)

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Playing your guitar is an addiction after your first riff you just can't stop. Kind of like raisins you taste one then eat them by the handful.
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:08 pm
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No problem at all brother! I love to teach people that actually want to learn how to play and want to learn for the right reasons. Not the people that want me to show them just how to play certain songs and stuff. That's actually why I stopped teaching some years ago was because of all the kids that I'd give a lesson plan to one week, and then the next week I noticed that they didn't even try it, but wanted me to teach them a certain song while their parents were paying me $20.00/half-hour. That wasn't fair to me as a REAL player/teacher nor to the parents either. I just wish that I could form my own metal band in my area that rises above all others, but people really shy away from my playing style and my bass player buddy says that "I scare everyone away." Oh well I suppose! I'll just get enjoyment from helping dudes like you learn the proper way and let that be that. Although several bands DO hire me to add solos and melodies to their recordings even though the other players can never do it live. I guess it helps them to sell their CD's or something. Anyhow if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask because I'm more than willing to help. Rock on my friend!!!!!!!!! :twisted:

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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:59 pm
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Shreddin wrote:
No problem at all brother! I love to teach people that actually want to learn how to play and want to learn for the right reasons. Not the people that want me to show them just how to play certain songs and stuff. That's actually why I stopped teaching some years ago was because of all the kids that I'd give a lesson plan to one week, and then the next week I noticed that they didn't even try it, but wanted me to teach them a certain song while their parents were paying me $20.00/half-hour. That wasn't fair to me as a REAL player/teacher nor to the parents either. I just wish that I could form my own metal band in my area that rises above all others, but people really shy away from my playing style and my bass player buddy says that "I scare everyone away." Oh well I suppose! I'll just get enjoyment from helping dudes like you learn the proper way and let that be that. Although several bands DO hire me to add solos and melodies to their recordings even though the other players can never do it live. I guess it helps them to sell their CD's or something. Anyhow if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask because I'm more than willing to help. Rock on my friend!!!!!!!!! :twisted:

wow its really great to see someone with your attidtude!
so you play metal? thats kind of what i play, I just mostly play Metallica though...

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Playing your guitar is an addiction after your first riff you just can't stop. Kind of like raisins you taste one then eat them by the handful.
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:41 pm
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so in order to keep playing in the right key, I will have to know which notes are in the key and where those notes are located, right?
In which case the notes go (starting with the low "E" open) are open "E" 1st fret "?" 2nd fret "?".
I don't know the "progression" I guess of the notes... If that makes any sense....

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Playing your guitar is an addiction after your first riff you just can't stop. Kind of like raisins you taste one then eat them by the handful.
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:35 pm
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O.K. brother here we go...Remember that I said that every fret is a half step right? So if you want to start with low "E" open it would look like this:

Open=E
1st fret=F
2nd fret=F# or G flat
3rd fret=G
4th fret=G# or A flat
5th fret=A
6th fret=A# or B flat
7th fret=B
8th fret=C
9th fret=C# or D flat
10th fret=D
11th fret=D# or E flat
12th fret=E
From here it starts all over again because you've hit an octave.

This same progression follows true all the way across the fretboard and across the strings so I'll lay out the next string so it makes more sense:

Open=A
1st fret=A# or B flat
2nd fret=B
3rd fret=C
4th fret=C# or D flat
5th fret=D
6th fret=D# or E flat
7th fret=E
8th fret=F
9th fret=F# or G flat
10th fret=G
11th fret=G# or A flat
12th fret=A
From here it starts all over again because you've hit an octave.

That's how that end of things works. There's a whole lot more info to give you on notation, but I don't want to confuse you too much at this point. And yes you're correct about staying in the right key. You must know the notes in the scale and where they're at in order to stay in the proper key. That's something that I think that only about 1 to 2% of all guitarists can do on the spot spontaneously, but thanks to the big guy in the sky, I'm one of them. With your interest, you will be too with your dedication.

Practice this for a bit and I'll start to teach you about intervals and "perfect" intervals and such later on to bring things into an even more cohesive manner. Right now though my boy is begging me to take him for a 4-wheeler ride so I'd better do it (he's only 6 and he's already starting to fret and pick the notes that he's after and his piano playing is coming along pretty well too). Not only does music "soothe the savage beast", but it makes you more intelligent as well...BTW my real name is Dave Crowe just so you know... :twisted:

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