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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:49 pm
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
... There are benefits to a good debate from which one's opinion and knowledge can grow ...

Agreed to the above. Personally, I am not one for prolonged highly charged debates. That being said, I am not so concerned about political correctness to worry about others who enjoy such endeavors. Otherwise, the forum will become very anemic. As long as we stay away from hate, I am good with it. Let it roll ... Just my $0.02...

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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:34 pm
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Shimmi brings up a very interesting aspect to all of this.
Some may not realize this but we've actually lost people due to all the non-guitar, non-amp, non-performance-night threads.
Me? I'm not convinced that makes such topics bad.
I still respect that line of thinking though.
Some of the people we lost were welcome losses, IMO.
That's the thing, though.
Someone I feel was a detriment to the forum may have been well respected by someone else and missed now that they are absent.

I can tolerate the endless RIP threads about people I never heard of passing away.
That doesn't bother me.
I can tolerate the requests for prayers and/or mojo we sometimes get when someone is having it rough.
That doesn't bother me.
I do tolerate a whole mess of stuff that goes on and rarely speak a word about it.
People can do what they wanna do, IMO.
Yes, a lot of it is off topic but it makes for a sense of community.

I am not concerned about any of that.
The only thing giving me the heebie jeebies is the recent shift in our OT conversations to hot button issues.
People are more than welcome to their own opinions on hot button topics.
The thing is ... Fender has asked us to pretty please, if we don't mind, please take these discussions off-site.
Folks can argue until they are blue in the face about their right to speak out and their stance against area specific topic restrictions.
It does not change the fact that our hosts have kindly asked us to keep it down, not ramp it up just because someone pointed it out.
It also doesn't change the fact that refusing to comply with the request is akin to flipping the bird at our gracious hosts and telling them to F off.
These gracious people, whom I might remind you, not only pay for this place but also are big enough to tolerate our discussion and promotion of non-FMIC products.

Correct me if I am wrong here but it seems to me the courteous thing to do is play nice in the sandbox and respect our hosts' wishes.

Are we so juvenile that we have to see it written in blood-soaked bold letters ("Thou Shalt Not ....") before we agree to comply?

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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:50 pm
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I'm easy. I read everything posted by all, sometimes twice or thrice naughty or nice. Then if it stays with me overnight for whatever reason and I cant seem to rid the issue with reason. I either ignore the topic or research what was said about it until the onset of a serious nap. When I wake up, I have usually forgotten what the topic was or decided I learnt something new or something I didn't really need to know.

So anyway, I bought a new guitar this past weekend but didn't post NGD because it aint a Fender. I plan on joining another forum for the brand I bought. To learn about and post about it; once I receive it in the mail.....its a blues/jazz monster from Kalamazoo.

Read this post this morning and didn't think there would be many replies. Glad to see everyone's voice heard,
I aint got no body on my ignore list.


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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:32 pm
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I'm ok with off-topic conversation, even with some of the recent hot-button issues. These are some strange times, and I think the discussion helps people to make some sense of things. So long as we keep the discussions relatively civil -- and don't feed the trolls -- I think thoughtful debate can be a very helpful thing.


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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:04 am
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Location: On the loo, regretting that gas station burrito.
I typically avoid discussing political issues around here for the simple reason: I like to discuss music related things with people peacefully, rather than argue with them over those issues, if you happen to disagree with them about it. In the end, I don't think it's going to do anything other than piss each other off, and then all you do from then on is fight over that. I'm actually quite political, but I vote instead. Whether or not it actually makes a difference, especially judging how this election is, that's certainly debatable. :P

At least here you can find a common denominator with the love of music, whether you are left or right wing, or straight down the middle. That's something that's refreshing, considering how extreme everything has become in recent years. Then again, I suppose you can argue about music, too. :P That's another thing I don't do. I won't slag off another band, even though I might dislike them, to put it mildly. Because of the same reason as above. I just simply avoid any discussing of said band and just listen to what I like and discuss, hopefully without anyone else doing any slagging, that band.

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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:37 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
To quote our own ForumAdmin:

Political and/or religious postings are strongly discouraged here as this sort of discussion frequently leads to strong disagreement amongst forum members -- and hence is quite contrary to our goal of providing a fun, family-oriented musical instrument enthusiast community. If you wish to debate political and religious topics we encourage you to seek out an appropriate community elsewhere on the Internet to do so.


That statement can be found right here in the Fender Forums Code Of Conduct thread.

I encourage all members to think about the future of our community before posting further on hot button topics as has been happening lately.
The expression of sympathy and compassion during the Dallas thing was most definitely appropriate.
When the thread morphed into a political discussion, that was when it became inappropriate for this forum.

I have been on the internet for a long time, most of it on guitar boards.
I have seen boards curl up and die over this same exact sort of thing.
That's right. Curl up and die ... as in they no longer exist due to lack of participation because aggravated bickering drove the majority away.
In every case there was a month or two of boasting by those who pushed everyone else away.
Lots of patting each other on the back for the several who hung around, proud of their victory.
Then what happened? Death of the forum in every single case.


We also have some Police hate related undercurrents mingling with everything.
I don't see any of this as being good for the overall health of this discussion forum.
It's not my place to tell anyone what to do here.
I simply hope people will pause and consider.

I think our old friend from Twin Falls, the proprietor of the precursor to this forum, proved beyond all doubt that strict adherence to anti-politic and anti-religion and anti-personal-bashing rules are The Key to keeping a board alive over the long haul.

I am asking people to police themselves.

I don't like the way things are starting to smell around here.
I am catching the scent of trouble coming.

Food for thought.


Look....the Dallas thread certainly raised some hot button issues.....which I myself felt the need to respond so as to include another viewpoint.
Lightnin MN and I disagreed in THAT thread, whereas I totally agree with his post in THIS thread.
It helps to remember that voicing occasional opinions on an otherwise sometimes bland forum (same subjects over and over) will not result in the sky falling in.
I am not a fan of either democrat or republican political system because by identifying yourself with one of those locks one into a particular viewpoint.
I see nothing wrong with an open discussion of the gray area subjects (even on a music forum) which could only help maybe arrive at the truth.
Music is after all, the expression of the human soul.......not the mechanics of a guitar truss rod.


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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:08 am
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ckmckool wrote:
Music is after all, the expression of the human soul.......not the mechanics of a guitar truss rod.

That's ... twisted.


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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:29 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
I have been on the internet for a long time, most of it on guitar boards.
I have seen boards curl up and die over this same exact sort of thing.
That's right. Curl up and die ... as in they no longer exist due to lack of participation because aggravated bickering drove the majority away.
In every case there was a month or two of boasting by those who pushed everyone else away.
Lots of patting each other on the back for the several who hung around, proud of their victory.
Then what happened? Death of the forum in every single case.

on the flip side of that coin, I've seen forums where the moderators were too heavy handed, suspending and banning users left and right due to minor offenses. That will make a forum curl up and die too.

What you've done is called on the users to be more careful and keep their posts relevant to the forum. That's the best you can do.

I try not to start threads with irrelevant content but I must admit, at times I can resist commenting when I see something really stupid, like condoning or promoting violence against law enforcement.

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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:37 am
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Heavy handed mods are no different from argumentative members.
Fender certainly has not been heavy handed.
It is my hope that if we police ourselves by avoiding the topics they have kindly asked us to refrain from
then it will never become bad enough where they have to take a heavy handed stance.

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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:47 am
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basically I don't think some of people that visit places like this are actually mature enough to have a thoughtful debate on some of these issues.

heck half the time, the shenanigans that go on in this board are even when the subject matter has NOT left music or guitar related topics of discussion.

I have to say, I don't always find this place all that amiable... all the time..


So I police MYSELF by not clicking on these threads,, or when they turn ugly, I no longer follow.
it's really that simple for me..

I don't come to these places looking to start arguments, or talk politics,.. which has these days devolved to nothing more than a SNL episode that won't end.. I come to these boards to get away from that BS, not come here looking for it.

peace to all of you..


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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:09 am
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KidBlast wrote:
I don't come to these places looking to start arguments, or talk politics,.. which has these days devolved to nothing more than a SNL episode that won't end.. I come to these boards to get away from that BS, not come here looking for it.


That's setting a good example. If you go on a message board looking for behavior you do not like or posts that do not follow the guidelines, you are going to find it.


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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:36 am
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strings10927 wrote:
BMW-KTM wrote:
I have been on the internet for a long time, most of it on guitar boards.
I have seen boards curl up and die over this same exact sort of thing.
That's right. Curl up and die ... as in they no longer exist due to lack of participation because aggravated bickering drove the majority away.
In every case there was a month or two of boasting by those who pushed everyone else away.
Lots of patting each other on the back for the several who hung around, proud of their victory.
Then what happened? Death of the forum in every single case.

on the flip side of that coin, I've seen forums where the moderators were too heavy handed, suspending and banning users left and right due to minor offenses. That will make a forum curl up and die too.

What you've done is called on the users to be more careful and keep their posts relevant to the forum. That's the best you can do.

I try not to start threads with irrelevant content but I must admit, at times I can resist commenting when I see something really stupid, like condoning or promoting violence against law enforcement.


"I try not to start threads with irrelevant content but I must admit, at times I can resist commenting when I see something really stupid, like condoning or promoting violence against law enforcement."

Same here....but for reasons of not promoting government immunity to constitutional violations.


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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:56 am
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well ckmckool, it's pretty much a fact that there will always be some idiots in this world. Take that whatever way it makes sense to you. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:08 am
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strings10927 wrote:
well ckmckool, it's pretty much a fact that there will always be some idiots in this world. Take that whatever way it makes sense to you. :wink:


Certainly Agree.
And btw....I have yet to see anywhere on here where anyone was "condoning or promoting violence against law enforcement."
Maybe explaining what was behind it.


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Post subject: Re: My Plea
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:38 am
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ckmckool wrote:
explaining what was behind it.

don't you get it? Your explanation is not desired or appreciated here. Nobody asked and nobody cares - really!.

Why don't you go onto a law enforcement forum and post an explanation of why guitar manufacturers prefer certain types of wood? That would make as much sense.

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