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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:57 pm
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Lightnin MN wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
These police murders occur every week, they just don't make it on the news! ...


Uh... If "they just don't make it on the news", what's your source... ??

Cheers!


Seriously??? Do you purposely ignore everything that's going on around you?

"In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday [July 11, 2016], 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race)."

There are many sources that agree with the Washington Post's database.

[When's the last time you've seen a video clip of one of these white guys being murdered by the cops? I can't remember one this year.]

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:31 pm
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mh2000 wrote:
Lightnin MN wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
These police murders occur every week, they just don't make it on the news! ...


Uh... If "they just don't make it on the news", what's your source... ??

Cheers!


Seriously??? Do you purposely ignore everything that's going on around you?

"In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday [July 11, 2016], 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race)."

There are many sources that agree with the Washington Post's database.

[When's the last time you've seen a video clip of one of these white guys being murdered by the cops? I can't remember one this year.]

Every post Lightnin MN makes just makes it more clear what a imbecile he is.


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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:35 pm
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mh2000 wrote:
Lightnin MN wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
These police murders occur every week, they just don't make it on the news! ...


Uh... If "they just don't make it on the news", what's your source... ??

Cheers!


Seriously??? Do you purposely ignore everything that's going on around you?

"In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday [July 11, 2016], 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race)."

There are many sources that agree with the Washington Post's database.

[When's the last time you've seen a video clip of one of these white guys being murdered by the cops? I can't remember one this year.]


Seriously??? Do you purposely ignore everything that's going on around you?

The Washington Post... ??? That's the kind of concrete data I'm looking for...

How about the FBI's UCR (Uniform Crime Reporting Statistics), the ones which are used by Fed., State and local governments to develop policy, allocate resources, produce budgets, hire manpower, etc. ?

These seriously contradict the inflammatory numbers you've posted. The UCR indicates an avg. of 400 OIS (officer involved shootings) annually for the past 12 years.

Further, approx. 300 of the 400 annually (or 75%) are found to have been justifiable shootings.

This might actually force you to admit and accept that the problem, though still a problem, is far less severe or 'conspiracy-based' an issue as your suspicious nature wants you to believe.

Of course, I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't let Facts cloud your judgment in any way...

Cheers!

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:40 pm
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ckmckool wrote:
Every post Lightnin MN makes just makes it more clear what a imbecile he is.


And once your argument consists of nothing more than name-calling (actually not once, but twice), it's of no substance whatever.

I'm out... !!

Cheers!

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:19 pm
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ckmckool...
The injustice of your situation is no doubt maddening. However, it doesn't justify the vulgarity and vitriol you are spewing towards any- and every-one that has a positive attitude or experience with the police.

It also doesn't justify the murder/ambush/assassination of five cops who seemed to be protecting and allowing people to express opinions similar to yours.

This thread was supposed to be dialog about a tragedy, not a gripe session of an injustice that happened to you....or are you too blinded by hate and frustration to see that your attitude will eventually lead you to actions that are going to succeed in you getting in a whole lotta trouble and pain?

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:43 pm
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Lightnin MN wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
Lightnin MN wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
These police murders occur every week, they just don't make it on the news! ...


Uh... If "they just don't make it on the news", what's your source... ??

Cheers!


Seriously??? Do you purposely ignore everything that's going on around you?

"In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday [July 11, 2016], 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race)."

There are many sources that agree with the Washington Post's database.

[When's the last time you've seen a video clip of one of these white guys being murdered by the cops? I can't remember one this year.]


Seriously??? Do you purposely ignore everything that's going on around you?

The Washington Post... ??? That's the kind of concrete data I'm looking for...

How about the FBI's UCR (Uniform Crime Reporting Statistics), the ones which are used by Fed., State and local governments to develop policy, allocate resources, produce budgets, hire manpower, etc. ?

These seriously contradict the inflammatory numbers you've posted. The UCR indicates an avg. of 400 OIS (officer involved shootings) annually for the past 12 years.

Further, approx. 300 of the 400 annually (or 75%) are found to have been justifiable shootings.

This might actually force you to admit and accept that the problem, though still a problem, is far less severe or 'conspiracy-based' an issue as your suspicious nature wants you to believe.

Of course, I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't let Facts cloud your judgment in any way...

Cheers!


Huh? I said that the white deaths aren't being publicized like the black ones. Your numbers that contradict most other sources don't change this. Why is this? Maybe it's just the media trying to (over) correct a long history of ignoring black deaths or maybe its something else. Remember, back during the Second Gulf War, that while parroting Bush's propaganda, CNN had to issue retractions almost daily after Al Jazeera reported the truth and CNN couldn't defend their government cooked slant on things. But really, isn't it handy that law enforcement would minimize the numbers and justify the deaths? Government organizations always protect themselves!

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:30 pm
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Lightnin MN wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
Lightnin MN wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
These police murders occur every week, they just don't make it on the news! ...


Uh... If "they just don't make it on the news", what's your source... ??

Cheers!


Seriously??? Do you purposely ignore everything that's going on around you?

"In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday [July 11, 2016], 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race)."

There are many sources that agree with the Washington Post's database.

[When's the last time you've seen a video clip of one of these white guys being murdered by the cops? I can't remember one this year.]


Seriously??? Do you purposely ignore everything that's going on around you?

The Washington Post... ??? That's the kind of concrete data I'm looking for...

How about the FBI's UCR (Uniform Crime Reporting Statistics), the ones which are used by Fed., State and local governments to develop policy, allocate resources, produce budgets, hire manpower, etc. ?

These seriously contradict the inflammatory numbers you've posted. The UCR indicates an avg. of 400 OIS (officer involved shootings) annually for the past 12 years.

Further, approx. 300 of the 400 annually (or 75%) are found to have been justifiable shootings.

This might actually force you to admit and accept that the problem, though still a problem, is far less severe or 'conspiracy-based' an issue as your suspicious nature wants you to believe.

Of course, I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't let Facts cloud your judgment in any way...

Cheers!


"Further, approx. 300 of the 400 annually (or 75%) are found to have been justifiable shootings."

Let's look at those copsucker talking point "facts".
Keep in mind that these statistics are what POLICE are reporting to the FBI, and of course most will be labeled as "justified"......in the same way that police internal investigations invariably always find that complaints against police conduct are also always "unjustified".
If we were to believe these statistics (which we should'nt), then the 25% of police shotings are therefore NOT justified. THAT is a huge problem.
Here's a wall street journal report that points out how these FBI stastics are inaccurate. ...but I'm sure Lightnin mn would'nt be comfortable with this source since it's not a "government" sourced report.
Copsuckers like MN are government worshipers who are brainwashed to accept only the government reports.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/hundreds-of ... 1417577504


Last edited by ckmckool on Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:40 pm
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Screamin Armadillo wrote:
ckmckool...
The injustice of your situation is no doubt maddening. However, it doesn't justify the vulgarity and vitriol you are spewing towards any- and every-one that has a positive attitude or experience with the police.

It also doesn't justify the murder/ambush/assassination of five cops who seemed to be protecting and allowing people to express opinions similar to yours.

This thread was supposed to be dialog about a tragedy, not a gripe session of an injustice that happened to you....or are you too blinded by hate and frustration to see that your attitude will eventually lead you to actions that are going to succeed in you getting in a whole lotta trouble and pain?


You are forgetting that I am not here trying to get sympathy for my situation with rogue police....I am here trying to explain WHY Dallas police were murdered.....and WHY many with good reason don't trust the police or the justice system and government who covers for them.
If I were to come on here with NO personal experience and be criticizing police......and just throw out a government statistic (and we KNOW the government never lies), and state that I "have a relative that is a retired cop who is one of the best", then my opinion would rightly be laughed at.


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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:21 am
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>>If we were to believe these statistics (which we should'nt), then the 25% of police shootings are therefore NOT justified. THAT is [still!] a huge problem.

Exactly!

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:51 am
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I don't believe it's a Fender....but Mexican heritage people DO make a lot of Fenders:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lat ... c3ee4f62ae


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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:46 pm
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ckmckool wrote:
I don't believe it's a Fender....but Mexican heritage people DO make a lot of Fenders:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lat ... c3ee4f62ae


More sad news. :(

Regarding Fenders, I read a history once that stated the reason they went with bolt on necks was that it made them easier to be built by the (mostly) illegal Mexican workers hired in the first CA plant! :)

Always makes me laugh with the little MIA vs MIM arguments erupt!

Best all!

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:25 am
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stratele52 wrote:
JakTors wrote:
Guns and the NRA to blame, no doubt.


+1000

If these people should use a knife, there'd never been any such murder.

Did you guys hear about what just happened in Nice? Trucks and the NHTSA to blame, no doubt. If he had used a bicycle, there'd never been any such tragedy.

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:05 am
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strings10927 wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
JakTors wrote:
Guns and the NRA to blame, no doubt.


+1000

If these people should use a knife, there'd never been any such murder.

Did you guys hear about what just happened in Nice? Trucks and the NHTSA to blame, no doubt. If he had used a bicycle, there'd never been any such tragedy.


And on that note, maybe their government didn't violate enough of their citizen's privacy.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/ ... e-911.html


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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:22 pm
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I have experienced racism on both sides of the American / Canadian border and overseas, and I have seen the injustices amongst the various groups mentioned here.

It is interesting from a Canadian's POV because we take it tongue in cheek at times. Some pretend it doesn't exist in Canada. Historically it comes from different, but similar or related conditions. Slavery and prejudice is not always in the cotton field per se. Neither is persecution kept to a POW camp.

Regardless, whether it is colour, culture, religion, gender equality, or some other special interest, I think it's time to suck up and realize that to move forward rather than dwell on the past is the only way to develop healthy relationships. There are very few groups, if any, that have not gathered a history of injustices. Numbers are up and numbers are down as populations and occurences change. We are fighting too many centuries of wrong doings in this world. This path is unwinable. Look around and the hate festers based on yesterday's mistakes. It is a tragedy to create new ones.

I'd like to see the issues not to be Black, White, gender related, religion related, or whatever. Time to legislate this to being simply People related, and this should include youngsters to the elderly. We can have anti-semetism and other hate laws (although, at times, they unfortunately stifle needed constructive dialogue); perhaps, special interest groups need a little guidance to be one collective group rather than a divisive self interest. This might even work better for success in achieving the end result. It opens a new door for dialogue, and one that is better made for the future.

Black Lives Matter? You bet! Blacks are people. Jews matter? Yep! Jews are people. Asians? Latinos? Muslims? Christians? Whites? Cops? Add your own group. Whatever your choice or opinion they are all people. It's about time we stepped up to the plate and called them and respected them for who they are PEOPLE. Maybe sanity and justice will find a new home.

Just my two cents. YMMV.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:08 am
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Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Black Lives Matter? You bet! Blacks are people. Jews matter? Yep! Jews are people. Asians? Latinos? Muslims? Christians? Whites? Cops? Add your own group. Whatever your choice or opinion they are all people. It's about time we stepped up to the plate and called them and respected them for who they are PEOPLE. Maybe sanity and justice will find a new home.


A fine sentiment. Unfortunately it's also a display of binary thinking and pigeonholing, which is the very root cause of the problem.

You can't divide the world into neat categories like "people" and "unpeople" in any objective way, and then bestow the same rights on everyone in one category.
Who is "people" will always be subjective, and depends on who does the classification, with the exact same logical and philosophical pitfalls as when defining people as "white" and "colored". A Southern Evangelical certainly has a very different definition of "people" from a freethinking geneticist.

Were my ancestors 2000 generations ago "people"? Well, some of them were Neanderthals. Were they unpeople, while their children were people?
Are zygotes "people"? Morulas? Blastocysts?
Alzheimer's patients on life support?
The body of someone declared brain dead?
Someone who has received a death sentence?
Clinical psychopaths?
Someone with Down's syndrome or Klinefeldter's and a different chromosome count?
Fictional people who can't be disproven to exist?
Computers who pass Turing tests?

It is highly subjective, and the only thing we can be fairly certain of is that everyone with the capacity to do so defines themselves and those close to them as people.
Which just serves to bring us back to "us" versus "them", which is the root cause of the whole problem.

The solution, as I see it, is to drop the binary thinking, and accept that things aren't black and white. Others are similar to us in various degrees, not a clean-cut either/or where someone abruptly becomes your equal and your brother. There are numerous different scales of similarity, like physical, mental, potential, environmental and many others. The product of all these grades of similarities is ultimately what decides how close we are to other beings (or objects, or abstracts), and how we will treat them in any given circumstance.
We don't have to dissect each reason and assign numbers to the scale. Our brains have evolved to make abstract pattern matching at a much higher level. But we need to recognize that we're doing this, and embrace that they're floating scales, and not try to pigeonhole everything into "us" (or "people") and "them" ("unpeople").

It's natural for you to feel more kinship or indifference to one being than another, based on all the non-binary factors.
The body of a 90 year old brain dead stranger, or a zygote that is less similar to me than to a fish aren't going to elicit the same sympathy as I would have for my niece. Or for my dog, who would score far higher on the "peopleness" scales.
Trying to force me to think binary is just going to affect how I feel about those doing the forcing. I won't accept their subjective world image as my own, and thus I won't accept them.


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