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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:05 pm
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IM4Tone wrote:
ckmckool wrote:
....As a former life long republican, it pains me to say this.......but protectionism is warranted.
We cannot break the cycle of poverty and it's resultant crime without decent gainful employment.
.........Absolute bleeding of our wealth, industries, and borders are counter productive.

As I stated before: Where are the boundaries (borders)? Is it Detroit, is it Michigan, the upper mid-West, USA, Canada???? Where do we protect.
There are jobs for the qualified. The focus should be in helping those in need to get qualified.

It doesn't take too much qualifications to work part time at Mcdonalds. .....Walmart.....or Spotts Music.
Do you really think Apple makes its products in China solely because it cannot find a qualified workforce here?
Nope. It's CHEAP labor.


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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:15 pm
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schnepf13 wrote:
T2Stratman wrote:
The police are not the problem. Are there a few who do wrong, yep, but they are the minority. I know many officers and have met many across this country, and the only folks blaming the police are those who are skirting the law. I have never had a single officer give me a hard time for anything, but then again I don't make a practice of breaking the law.

The officers in Dallas were simply doing their job when they were ambushed, PERIOD! To blame them is total tom foolery.

The real problem is the total lack of personal accountability of many Americans. Many in our society are making poor choices and run afoul of the police as they make those choices. We have a loud minority in our society that in many ways wants to blame someone else for their choices. The majority of folks in this country are fed up with these whiny azz folks.

Many major American cities have become cesspools by the failed policies of this liberal minority. Just look at cities like Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, Los Angeles, Washington DC, Jacksonville, and the list goes on. Most of these cities politicians (and the people that voted for them) have become corrupted. They live off the hard working people who are completely fed up with the situation. Many of these cities politicians are in complete denial of the criminal element within their areas with gangs committing a vast majority of the crimes committed. Chicago even goes so far as to negotiate with these gangs, it does not get much more corrupt than that.

So the next time you want to spout off about the Police, guns, or crime you need to look inside yourself and ask if you are one of those that back this level of corruption with your apathy and lack of a good moral compass.

T2


Agree 100%. I have many friends and co-workers who are current or former members of law enforcement. The vast majority of police are good people who are working an incredibly dangerous and thankless job. Yes, there are bad apples (as there are in any line of work), and the bad cops should be punished to the full extent of the law. But to paint the police on the whole as the problem is prejudicial and counter-productive.

I am not a politician, nor an expert on guns. But I do know that these mass shootings seem to be happening here in the US far more than anywhere else in the civilized world. That is unacceptable. I hope and pray that we can get to the root of this problem before another elementary school class gets taken out by a psychopath with an AR-15.

.
But the bad police AREN'T being punished....and your "good" cops AREN'T arresting the "bad" cops.....in fact, the "good" cops are COVERING for the bad cops.
Therein lies the root of the problem.


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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:04 pm
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ckmckool wrote:
IM4Tone wrote:
ckmckool wrote:
....As a former life long republican, it pains me to say this.......but protectionism is warranted.
We cannot break the cycle of poverty and it's resultant crime without decent gainful employment.
.........Absolute bleeding of our wealth, industries, and borders are counter productive.

As I stated before: Where are the boundaries (borders)? Is it Detroit, is it Michigan, the upper mid-West, USA, Canada???? Where do we protect.
There are jobs for the qualified. The focus should be in helping those in need to get qualified.

It doesn't take too much qualifications to work part time at Mcdonalds. .....Walmart.....or Spotts Music.
Do you really think Apple makes its products in China solely because it cannot find a qualified workforce here?
Nope. It's CHEAP labor.

What is Spotts Music?
First, you didn't answer my question on boundaries.
Second, there are essentially little to no qualifications to the jobs you mentioned, hence no need for training and if you read my previous post it said 'decent paying jobs'.
And, add the word unskilled in front of CHEAP labor in your statement. You think Apple should pay $15 to $25/hr, for the same lack of skill just because it's in your country? I think not. Is Apple doing their R&D, programming, design, etc. in China?
How about some initiative on the part of the individual to upgrade his/her skills, and I would like to see government play a major roll in that endeavor if the individual takes initiative. The only gifting should be that of opportunity.

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:18 pm
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Just for the sake of clarity, I was not implying anything at all related to government.
I meant we need to protect our economy by our personal choices.
ie: where we spend our dollars.
As a man who prefers to think of himself as neither politically left nor right but rather as socially conscious I don't think we can blame the auto industry for their decision to move out of Detroit.
We did that.
We bought Volvos and Audis and BMWs in part because we felt the need to look affluent.
We can't fault companies for simply doing the best for themselves under capitalism.
Capitalism may not be perfect but it is what we have and we have to live with it.
They way we send the message to companies is by the choices we make with our wallets.

And yes, I did that too.
All you need is to look at my handle.
Although, in my defence, I am not aware of any north american made dirt bikes.
We have all done it at some time or another.

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:01 pm
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ckmckool wrote:
T2Stratman wrote:
The police are not the problem. Are there a few who do wrong, yep, but they are the minority. I know many officers and have met many across this country, and the only folks blaming the police are those who are skirting the law. I have never had a single officer give me a hard time for anything, but then again I don't make a practice of breaking the law.

The officers in Dallas were simply doing their job when they were ambushed, PERIOD! To blame them is total tom foolery.

The real problem is the total lack of personal accountability of many Americans. Many in our society are making poor choices and run afoul of the police as they make those choices. We have a loud minority in our society that in many ways wants to blame someone else for their choices. The majority of folks in this country are fed up with these whiny azz folks.

Many major American cities have become cesspools by the failed policies of this liberal minority. Just look at cities like Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, Los Angeles, Washington DC, Jacksonville, and the list goes on. Most of these cities politicians (and the people that voted for them) have become corrupted. They live off the hard working people who are completely fed up with the situation. Many of these cities politicians are in complete denial of the criminal element within their areas with gangs committing a vast majority of the crimes committed. Chicago even goes so far as to negotiate with these gangs, it does not get much more corrupt than that.

So the next time you want to spout off about the Police, guns, or crime you need to look inside yourself and ask if you are one of those that back this level of corruption with your apathy and lack of a good moral compass.

T2

"The police are not the problem. Are there a few who do wrong, yep, but they are the minority. I know many officers and have met many across this country, and the only folks blaming the police are those who are skirting the law. I have never had a single officer give me a hard time for anything, but then again I don't make a practice of breaking the law. "
.
I stopped reading after this 1st paragraph because you don't know what the phuck you're talking about!
There's a well known term for those like you...."Cop-Sucker".....for if YOU have'nt been an innocent victim of corrupt police, therefore it "must not be happening".
.
I have been fighting police corruption for almost 7 years now (and a district attorney) who fabricated a search warrant on my home only as a means to connect to someone ELSE'S home. That someone else was my brother who sent a chic's husband in the cop and DA'circle a pic of her screwing around with said brother.
My brother owned his own home, and the corrupt police and prosecutor KNEW it.
I've seen how federal court judges actually LIE (in their rulings) to protect anything a prosecutor does (in this case-ordering a cop to fabricate evidence)....I've seen courtroom reporters LIE on transcripts as to testimony (to protect said officials).....and I've witnessed said prosecutor now trying to forfiet and destroy two cell phones of which PROVE my allegations, and were NOT used in any crimes EXCEPT by said prosecutor.
MANY thousands of dollars........waaaay too much court corruption than I can even cover here.....SIX years and counting of my life trying to achieve justice, and the ONE thing I see over and over again are people like you who worship our government so much that your head is up their $@! where you refuse to see.


Slow down tough guy. My older Brother is a retired Chicago Police Officer. One of the best. I'm here (Chicago) all of the time. We'll have coffee and discuss this like gentlemen. Starbuck's in Uptown is nice. Near the Aragon and the Riviera.

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:59 am
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
ckmckool wrote:
T2Stratman wrote:
The police are not the problem. Are there a few who do wrong, yep, but they are the minority. I know many officers and have met many across this country, and the only folks blaming the police are those who are skirting the law. I have never had a single officer give me a hard time for anything, but then again I don't make a practice of breaking the law.

The officers in Dallas were simply doing their job when they were ambushed, PERIOD! To blame them is total tom foolery.

The real problem is the total lack of personal accountability of many Americans. Many in our society are making poor choices and run afoul of the police as they make those choices. We have a loud minority in our society that in many ways wants to blame someone else for their choices. The majority of folks in this country are fed up with these whiny azz folks.

Many major American cities have become cesspools by the failed policies of this liberal minority. Just look at cities like Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, Los Angeles, Washington DC, Jacksonville, and the list goes on. Most of these cities politicians (and the people that voted for them) have become corrupted. They live off the hard working people who are completely fed up with the situation. Many of these cities politicians are in complete denial of the criminal element within their areas with gangs committing a vast majority of the crimes committed. Chicago even goes so far as to negotiate with these gangs, it does not get much more corrupt than that.

So the next time you want to spout off about the Police, guns, or crime you need to look inside yourself and ask if you are one of those that back this level of corruption with your apathy and lack of a good moral compass.

T2

"The police are not the problem. Are there a few who do wrong, yep, but they are the minority. I know many officers and have met many across this country, and the only folks blaming the police are those who are skirting the law. I have never had a single officer give me a hard time for anything, but then again I don't make a practice of breaking the law. "
.
I stopped reading after this 1st paragraph because you don't know what the phuck you're talking about!
There's a well known term for those like you...."Cop-Sucker".....for if YOU have'nt been an innocent victim of corrupt police, therefore it "must not be happening".
.
I have been fighting police corruption for almost 7 years now (and a district attorney) who fabricated a search warrant on my home only as a means to connect to someone ELSE'S home. That someone else was my brother who sent a chic's husband in the cop and DA'circle a pic of her screwing around with said brother.
My brother owned his own home, and the corrupt police and prosecutor KNEW it.
I've seen how federal court judges actually LIE (in their rulings) to protect anything a prosecutor does (in this case-ordering a cop to fabricate evidence)....I've seen courtroom reporters LIE on transcripts as to testimony (to protect said officials).....and I've witnessed said prosecutor now trying to forfiet and destroy two cell phones of which PROVE my allegations, and were NOT used in any crimes EXCEPT by said prosecutor.
MANY thousands of dollars........waaaay too much court corruption than I can even cover here.....SIX years and counting of my life trying to achieve justice, and the ONE thing I see over and over again are people like you who worship our government so much that your head is up their $@! where you refuse to see.


Slow down tough guy. My older Brother is a retired Chicago Police Officer. One of the best. I'm here (Chicago) all of the time. We'll have coffee and discuss this like gentlemen. Starbuck's in Uptown is nice. Near the Aragon and the Riviera.

OK- Since you start off with the preposition that I'm a "tough guy" for having been a victim myself of a system that refuses to police itself, let's examine one of the reasons police won't police themselves...."police pensions".
That is all that seems to matter to the police unions.....that they never suffer consequences for conduct that would effect their godamn precious government teet pensions.

http://www.taxpayersunitedofamerica.org ... ime-worked

https://www.policeone.com/lifestyle-ret ... ions-plan/

Do you hear that sucking sound with these municipal pension plans?
THIS is one big reason why we need that cheap overseas Chinese labor.....because our country is being strangled from within and any businesses left taxed into oblivion, not to mention our infastructure needs (like education that was mentioned) having to be short changed.


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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:29 am
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IM4Tone wrote:
ckmckool wrote:
IM4Tone wrote:
ckmckool wrote:
....As a former life long republican, it pains me to say this.......but protectionism is warranted.
We cannot break the cycle of poverty and it's resultant crime without decent gainful employment.
.........Absolute bleeding of our wealth, industries, and borders are counter productive.

As I stated before: Where are the boundaries (borders)? Is it Detroit, is it Michigan, the upper mid-West, USA, Canada???? Where do we protect.
There are jobs for the qualified. The focus should be in helping those in need to get qualified.

It doesn't take too much qualifications to work part time at Mcdonalds. .....Walmart.....or Spotts Music.
Do you really think Apple makes its products in China solely because it cannot find a qualified workforce here?
Nope. It's CHEAP labor.

What is Spotts Music?
First, you didn't answer my question on boundaries.
Second, there are essentially little to no qualifications to the jobs you mentioned, hence no need for training and if you read my previous post it said 'decent paying jobs'.
And, add the word unskilled in front of CHEAP labor in your statement. You think Apple should pay $15 to $25/hr, for the same lack of skill just because it's in your country? I think not. Is Apple doing their R&D, programming, design, etc. in China?
How about some initiative on the part of the individual to upgrade his/her skills, and I would like to see government play a major roll in that endeavor if the individual takes initiative. The only gifting should be that of opportunity.

You mention $15 to $25/hr for Apple employees? I'm sure what they're paying in China is FAR less than that.
But if you consider that if they weren't taxed into oblivion here in the states, they could very likely manufacture here at maybe $12/hr. That would be a welcome employer....if only taxed REASONABLY.
Spotts Music is a local music store carrying guitars, amps, drums, ect (a few of which are still made in the USA). It is the usual retail store offering part time employment without benefits.
The government can only get so big before it commits suicide.....examine the fall of Rome, where the government in the end was the provider of all things to its people at the expense of private industry, and therefore could'nt afford to defend itself in its downward spiral.


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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:24 am
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ckmckool wrote:
You mention $15 to $25/hr for Apple employees? I'm sure what they're paying in China is FAR less than that. Of course it is. That's the whole point!
But if you consider that if they weren't taxed into oblivion here in the states, they could very likely manufacture here at maybe $12/hr. Seriously doubt that when unskilled China labor is more like $1/per day and no benefits, which I failed to mention. That would be a welcome employer....if only taxed REASONABLY.
Spotts Music is a local music store carrying guitars, amps, drums, ect (a few of which are still made in the USA). It is the usual retail store offering part time employment without benefits. And this practice should also be banned????
The government can only get so big before it commits suicide.....examine the fall of Rome, where the government in the end was the provider of all things to its people at the expense of private industry, and therefore could'nt afford to defend itself in its downward spiral. And you propose more government to legislate and enforce 'protectionism'?????

Still didn't answer the 'boundary' question!
I think I'm done here.

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:34 am
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IM4Tone wrote:
ckmckool wrote:
You mention $15 to $25/hr for Apple employees? I'm sure what they're paying in China is FAR less than that. Of course it is. That's the whole point!
But if you consider that if they weren't taxed into oblivion here in the states, they could very likely manufacture here at maybe $12/hr. Seriously doubt that when unskilled China labor is more like $1/per day and no benefits, which I failed to mention. That would be a welcome employer....if only taxed REASONABLY.
Spotts Music is a local music store carrying guitars, amps, drums, ect (a few of which are still made in the USA). It is the usual retail store offering part time employment without benefits. And this practice should also be banned????
The government can only get so big before it commits suicide.....examine the fall of Rome, where the government in the end was the provider of all things to its people at the expense of private industry, and therefore could'nt afford to defend itself in its downward spiral. And you propose more government to legislate and enforce 'protectionism'?????

Still didn't answer the 'boundary' question!
I think I'm done here.

Yes I did.
I stated that "nothing is absolute".


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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:44 am
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one way or another, O.P. is a troll with this thread. Next!

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:34 am
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strings10927 wrote:
one way or another, O.P. is a troll with this thread. Next!

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:22 am
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Pro-gun or Anti-gun, Pro-BLM or Anti-BLM, Pro-police or Anti-police, Democrat or Republican or Independent or Libertarian or Socialist, White or Black or Brown or whatever...

What in the world does any of that have to do with an unhinged person, filled with hate, targeting other human beings?

If he didn't have a gun, he would have used an explosive device...or a knife...or a sword...or a club...

He was unhinged (a term I use to describe any person--legally sane or not--who performs an evil act against another human).
He was filled with hate.
He purposely caused the loss of five people, and harmed several others.

He would have found a way, just like Andrew Kehoe or Charles Whitman or Timothy McVeigh or any other hate-filled, unhinged, evil person who insists on acting upon a wicked impulse or a wicked heart.

That's the issue. All of this other crap is immaterial at this point.

Peace to the families and colleagues of the fallen, pity to the family of the perpetrator.

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:34 am
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arth1 wrote:
I'm just waiting for how the NRA will try to spin this to claim this wouldn't have happened if more good citizens had guns... This time, they will have a hard sell.

Guns are like venereal diseases. If we outlaw gonorrhea, only criminals will have the clap, and I'm fine with that.

I say this with the utmost respect, Arth1.

Besides being of the stupidest analogies I've ever heard, ("outlaw gonorrhea"? Really?!?) aren't you doing just what you recently accused someone else of?

Using a tragedy to sell/push your point of view onto others?

What comfort or relief does your statement make?
In contrast to the persons you lambasted for trying to make sense of a senseless act (in a manner and a method in which you disagreed), all you are doing is stating a political opinion in a vulgar and ignorant way.

I'm neither Pro-NRA nor Anti-NRA...but your comment(s) and your analogy would make a reasonable, thinking person at least consider their angle and agenda, just due to the sheer ridiculousness of your post.

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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:42 am
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The Dallas killer didn't just wake up one day and decide to kill cops and whites.
There's a long history of unconstitutional conduct by police towards blacks (AND others) that has gone unchecked. Once cops establish precedent on blacks, it then happens to whites (as I know personally)
More and more of it is making the airwaves and online via videos and reporting.
Does the just-us system rectify the wrongs? Nope.
then this happens


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Post subject: Re: 5 Dallas LEO's Murdered
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:55 am
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ckmckool wrote:
The Dallas killer didn't just wake up one day and decide to kill cops and whites.
There's a long history of unconstitutional conduct by police towards blacks (AND others) that has gone unchecked. Once cops establish precedent on blacks, it then happens to whites (as I know personally)
More and more of it is making the airwaves and online via videos and reporting.
Does the just-us system rectify the wrongs? Nope.
then this happens

I understand, I empathize and I wish those things weren't true (unfortunately, the behavior or some people within the legal and law enforcement system casts doubt on everyone in that system).
However, by this cretin shooting at (and killing) policemen, he has done more harm to his cause than anything else. He was so filled with hate that he cut off his own nose to spite his face.

...and as frustrating as your situation is, making a murderous massacre the response to official misconduct is unfathomable and pure evil.

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