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Post subject: Happy day after Canada Scammer Day - I think anyway
Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:56 pm
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I posted an ad on KiJiJi to sell an amp and almost immediately got a response.
Their first request was to converse via private email, rather that through KiJiJi messaging.
That made me cautious already so I used my alternate email address that is not connected to any account anywhere .. like FaceBook, Linked-In, Online Bank, etc.
We exchanged several emails in rapid succession.
After a few exchanges, they said my price was fair and I should provide my PayPal account so they (she?) could send me the money and arrange to meet.
I said I don't have a PayPal account but I will accept a bank eTransfer.
Then she said she only uses PayPal because it is directly linked to her bank account.
The hairs on the back of my neck stood up and I immediately assumed a position of caution.
Who ONLY uses PayPal?
Especially since I know from experience that if you link your PayPal account to your bank account it takes as much as 8 business days for a transaction to clear?
It does in Canada anyway. I think it's fewer days in USA. Possibly 5?
That doesn't compute for me.
I responded that we would very likely not be able to do business as I got screwed by PayPal once (that's true, I did) and I won't use them again.
It was eTransfer or cash or nothing.
Dead silence from the other end.
No response whatsoever.
Not even a simple "OK".
I have nothing but my gut to back me up on this but I think I narrowly escaped a rip-off there.

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Post subject: Re: Happy day after Canada Scammer Day - I think anyway
Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:23 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
I have nothing but my gut to back me up on this but I think I narrowly escaped a rip-off there.


Trust those guts, Matt......I think they just saved you from getting hosed.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Happy day after Canada Scammer Day - I think anyway
Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:19 pm
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You sure did! I would have avoided the entire transaction once they requested correspondence via personal email. That's a dead give away. I have completed several transactions via craigslist without ever giving my personal email, for example.

Like Arjay said, always trust your gut.

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Post subject: Re: Happy day after Canada Scammer Day - I think anyway
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:41 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Who ONLY uses PayPal?

Quite a lot of people. Especially buyers who want to avoid being scammed.

BMW-KTM wrote:
Especially since I know from experience that if you link your PayPal account to your bank account it takes as much as 8 business days for a transaction to clear?
It does in Canada anyway. I think it's fewer days in USA. Possibly 5?

48 hours for established sellers. 21 days if you're a new seller, but even then 48 hours if the buyer leaves positive feedback.
Plus, if you want it in your bank account instead of PayPal account, whatever time your bank takes for all electronic deposits. Normally one day's float, but some countries have immediate access, and some have several days float. That'd be your bank, though.

The reason for the hold is to give the buyer protection. The buyer can not reverse the charges, but PayPal can. They can do so if the buyer claims non-receipt and the seller can't show a delivery receipt, or if the buyer shows believable evidence of what was received does not match what was ordered.

BMW-KTM wrote:
It was eTransfer or cash or nothing.
Dead silence from the other end.
No response whatsoever.
Not even a simple "OK".
I have nothing but my gut to back me up on this but I think I narrowly escaped a rip-off there.

And I'm fairly certain that the other end thinks the exact same. PayPal provides at least some buyer protection, and that the seller refused it is an indication of a possible scam. The best way to deal with that is silence.

Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear.


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Post subject: Re: Happy day after Canada Scammer Day - I think anyway
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:24 am
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sounds like a scam. Not sure how they would hose you via paypal (creditcard fraud maybe...)...but these vicious buggers are clever.

The immediate response means it was likely a robot especially if they immediately accepted your price as fair (...who does that???), no questions and didn't want to see the merch in person...

The general rule for Kijiji is cash only, in person. You got off lucky. It is a sad world we live in.

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Post subject: Re: Happy day after Canada Scammer Day - I think anyway
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:22 am
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Transferring funds between a bank account and a PayPal account takes 8 business days in Canada, regardless of which direction the money flows.

I know that from personal experience. It is not a supposition. It is a fact.

I did get screwed by PayPal once and will never use them again so they're not foolproof. The number of problem transactions may be infinitesimally small but it is not zero.

I trust eTransfer more than I trust PayPal.

My suspicion is that the scammer knows about the delay.
She sends me a bogus yet convincing email informing me funds have been transferred.
Satisfied I will have my money in 8 days I meet and give her the amp.
By the time I discover the money is not forthcoming, her email address has been deleted and she is nowhere to be found.

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Post subject: Re: Happy day after Canada Scammer Day - I think anyway
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:25 pm
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Your instincts are spot on I get this scam on Craigslist all the time. Even Craigslist says not to use Paypal. Funny how they can text you but, want to do business by email. I even had a local scammer try this, I wanted to meet up so I could take a bat to his ribs. :twisted:


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Post subject: Re: Happy day after Canada Scammer Day - I think anyway
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:35 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
She sends me a bogus yet convincing email informing me funds have been transferred.

That's your problem right there. PayPal will tell you after 30 minutes when there are transfers. You can check it yourself in your account. They also give a transaction number you can look up.
After the transaction is made, the buyer cannot reverse the transfer for no good reason.

Don't trust the seller, trust the actual transaction audit trail.

In continental Europe, it's a heck of a lot easier to buy/sell privately, because the banking systems are payer-initiated instead of payee-initiated, and giro deposits are immediate. You give them your account number, and they deposit, and you see the funds in your account immediately. No need for transactions to clear, because the transfer cannot be initiated without there being funds.

8 days seems excessive, even for a backwards banking system. I'd shop around for a different bank if they do that even for electronic transfers.


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Post subject: Re: Happy day after Canada Scammer Day - I think anyway
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:43 am
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You know?
When I used to have a PayPal account I would transfer money from my bank account into my PayPal account.
My bank would show the transaction was completed within less than 10 seconds.
My PayPal account would also show that same transaction within roughly the same amount of time.
The difference was the the money was tied up by PayPal, not the bank.
The PayPal message would say, "Processing transfer, please wait 8 business days" or words to that effect.
Several times I contacted my bank to ask if they were holding things up.
They assured me they were not and that the transfer was completed.
So I would contact PayPal to ask what the delay was about.
They would tell me it was their policy to hold the funds for 8 days.
Something about being sure the "real owner" of the bank account would have time to notice the withdrawal and reverse it if they so chose.
They simply assumed I was a scammer based on nothing more than my refusal to give them my credit card number.
Several times they assured me the delays would disappear if I linked my credit card to the account, something I am not prepared to do for any reason at any time.


Clearly, you know nothing about Paypal with regard to how they deal with non-Americans.

I have been telling you the truth.
I'm not making this $h!t up.
You seem bent on making this out to be my fault somehow when everyone I have talked to about it, both in person and online agrees it smells fishy.
For some time now, I have noticed you seem to take delight in contradicting me on this board.
Well, not just me actually; it's pretty much everybody.
I have demonstrated a great deal of patience in the past but that patience has run out.
Everyone on this board has watched me admit ignorance whenever I do not understand something.
I do not pretend to know everything about everything.
That said, when I do know something for a fact, I state it as a fact.
The things I have stated here are facts.

It's been a very long time since I typed this ...

(magic happy button, here I come)

click

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Post subject: Re: Happy day after Canada Scammer Day - I think anyway
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:05 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Clearly, you know nothing about Paypal with regard to how they deal with non-Americans.

On the contrary, I use PayPal on an ongoing basis to transfer money to and from other countries, and my bank accounts in two different countries.
It's not a perfect system, but none are. When buying or selling something, it gives me far more protection than most other systems, and I can also be reasonable sure that the other end will accept it.

For larger sums, I insist on SWIFT for international transfers and giro for domestic ones, but for smaller amounts (smaller than what needs documentation for tax purposes), PayPal is really convenient, and near universally accepted.
Could it be better? Hell yes. But in the land of the blind, the one-eyed guy is king.


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Post subject: Re: Happy day after Canada Scammer Day - I think anyway
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:58 am
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Paypal is pretty much the golden rule here in the UK. Or cash on collection, which I favour.
Simply because of the safeguards Paypal offer. My missus uses it exclusively, has it linked to her bank account. I don't ever transact money online. I just give her the cash and let her do it.

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