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Post subject: Portastudio vs DAW? (Tascam dp-008ex)
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:40 pm
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Ok, this is more a thought experiment for discussion...

Since my very basic Tascam DP-006 started acting flakey and I found a good online deal for a new Tascam DP-008EX ($132), it has me wondering if with its much expanded missing and mastering capabilities whether or not I might try to get by with just this in putting together demos/self released CDs. I've been using Reaper on my desktop for these tasks up until now. Any thoughts?

I guess the analogy I'm thinking is how I went from being a dedicated Photoshop user to doing all my photography work with only LightRoom (which is significantly limited compared to Photoshop). The benefit I gained in this was that I knew up front that I had to get the original source images really good since I couldn't rely on "fixing" them in Photoshop. I'm thinking maybe going to restricting myself to the more limited mixing/mastering in the DP-008EX might make me focus on getting better tracks etc...

Anyway, it's a thought experiment that I may try out... and with little risk, because of course I'm not going to throw away my original tracks, so I can take them into my DAW later and re-master them etc.

Anyway, just thoughts!

:)

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Post subject: Re: Portastudio vs DAW? (Tascam dp-008ex)
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:14 pm
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mh2000 wrote:
Any thoughts?

I have a DP-03SD, which is almost identical to the DP-008EX apart from sliders and requiring external power. It's nice and all, but it mostly gathers dust. It's really limited because you can only use two channels at a time, and is only 16-bit 44.1kHz. And when you mix, two 44.1 sources can't give a full quality 44.1 result - you reduce the quality for each mix.
Using a MOTU Ultralite with a PC gives me far more inputs and outputs, and better quality. If that's outside how much you want to spend, I'd go with a Focusrite before I got another Tascam. It's nice and all, but I really only pick it when I have to do a recording from two live sources and don't have time to set up anything elaborate, and will mix it later. I.e. as a two-channel recorder with sliders. The DP-008EX might be more useful in that it's truly portable and can run on batteries, but only for the live scenario, IMO.


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Post subject: Re: Portastudio vs DAW? (Tascam dp-008ex)
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:45 pm
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Interesting article :

http://tweakheadz.com/16-bit-vs-24-bit-audio/

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Post subject: Re: Portastudio vs DAW? (Tascam dp-008ex)
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:04 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:


Good article, Mike! My sense on bit depth is that if my device had it, which it doesn't, I would definitely use it! But along the lines of the direction of my thoughts... if I'm limited by 16 bit depth audio, I'd still be ok so long as I don't have to push it that far... so developing better input methods and control will minimize this limitation and honestly help me out overall down the road with better equipment.

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Post subject: Re: Portastudio vs DAW? (Tascam dp-008ex)
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:14 pm
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arth1 wrote:
mh2000 wrote:
Any thoughts?

I have a DP-03SD, which is almost identical to the DP-008EX apart from sliders and requiring external power. It's nice and all, but it mostly gathers dust. It's really limited because you can only use two channels at a time, and is only 16-bit 44.1kHz. And when you mix, two 44.1 sources can't give a full quality 44.1 result - you reduce the quality for each mix.
Using a MOTU Ultralite with a PC gives me far more inputs and outputs, and better quality. If that's outside how much you want to spend, I'd go with a Focusrite before I got another Tascam. It's nice and all, but I really only pick it when I have to do a recording from two live sources and don't have time to set up anything elaborate, and will mix it later. I.e. as a two-channel recorder with sliders. The DP-008EX might be more useful in that it's truly portable and can run on batteries, but only for the live scenario, IMO.


I'll have to think about how I'd lose an effective sample rate when I combine 2 separate wave forms point by point... that said, I can easily see that adding pushed 16 bit depth waveforms could result in a summation of errors that could impact file quality.

I have a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 hooked up to my desktop computer and it's ok, I guess the real thing is that I'm after complete portability... conceptually, I enjoy parking in a dark alley between dumpsters to record my vocal tracks. :)

Anyway, my stuff is so rough anyway, I'm doubting the Portastudio is going to be my most limiting factor! :)

Thanks for the thoughts! I'm just thinking out loud!

Continuing with my photography analogy:

"There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept." -Ansel Adams

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Post subject: Re: Portastudio vs DAW? (Tascam dp-008ex)
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:53 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
Superb explanation, Mike. Many of us dinosaurs concur that essential miking and performance is, perhaps, the first consideration. No one would argue that better equipment is a plus factor, but great music has gone straight to tape and great mixes, be they analog or digital, are and have been handled by celebrity engineers and award winning producers. It would be hard to deny that even simplified recordings on the Net can produce that once in a blue moon dyn-o-mite surprise. Quality may take a back seat over substance here; but, who's to say that a well produced Master doesn't or can't exist?

Taking the photography method of a high resolution shot reduced in size, or a poor resolution shot expanded in size for smaller or larger prints along with other high quality conditions be they location, attention to detail, efficient and knowledgable use of gear, effects, pre and post production . . . the principles discussed here are similar. Leicas, Hasselblads, Graflex, full frame, film and digital cameras have created a wonder of imagery to behold. Ah, yes then there is the mobile cellphone camera; but, in the right hands a vintage box camera has it's own niche. Even today, tape will be found and used in some of the finest recording studios. Sadly, the cylinder, wire recorder, and the Caruso recordings sit in a corner as a memory of yesterday.

Decisions, decisions, decisions. It starts IMHO with a song in the air. :D
FSB

Mark, I too use Focusrite, but they and other good interfaces have recently upgraded to more headroom, and they have addressed the latency issue in a big way. I'm sure your creative juices will find the right path whatever your choice, Mark. Keep up the great work.

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Post subject: Re: Portastudio vs DAW? (Tascam dp-008ex)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:03 am
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well... I posted this more as a creative process thought experiment, not a technical discussion, but since it inevitably took a bit of this turn I've read/reread a bunch of stuff and also had a discussion with a dynamic and acoustic test engineer friend of mine...

FWIW, regarding 44.1kHz, in his opinion, "when you mix, two 44.1 sources can't give a full quality 44.1 result" is incorrect or at least fuzzy in logic unless there is some hardware flaw -- the Nyquist frequency is the Nyquist and you maintain frequency information up until then even when summing two waveforms.

Regarding 16-bit depth... as expected, his response was "more is better!" He did agree with me that as long as I was careful with my levels and working with tracks that didn't have to be heavily expanded, it should be ok... just recognize the limitations going in. He suggested that other than the summation of round off errors, that with heavily manipulated 16-bit tracks that there would also be subtle frequency errors introduced.

So for my intuition, I'm going back to my understanding of digital photography... *if* you take a well exposed and white balanced photo, the difference between shooting RAW vs JPG is very small, but once you make a mistake and have to heavily manipulate your image, you really want the backup "headroom."

Unfortunately, there weren't really many options in the $130 range for a portable digital recorder that gave better quality than 16-bit/44.1kHz, so for this, it is what it is.

I guess my thought was, after reading about the specs on my newly ordered recorder was that if I was careful with equalization, effects etc. etc. going into my recordings, that maybe I could come up with a workflow where I could essentially do everything with the DP-008EX and was wondering whether that could be a good learning experience... I really like the K.I.S.S. approach to most things in life.

Thanks!

:)

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Post subject: Re: Portastudio vs DAW? (Tascam dp-008ex)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:53 am
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speaking to the creative process only, I prefer my portastudio (Fostex FD-8) as a sketch pad for recording ideas. It just feels more like "real" recording, and it's easier to plug stuff into vs. my computer.

Yeah the sound quality isn't as good, but then neither sounds "professional" to me anyway.

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Post subject: Re: Portastudio vs DAW? (Tascam dp-008ex)
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:57 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
speaking to the creative process only, I prefer my portastudio (Fostex FD-8) as a sketch pad for recording ideas. It just feels more like "real" recording, and it's easier to plug stuff into vs. my computer.

Yeah the sound quality isn't as good, but then neither sounds "professional" to me anyway.


I like the "sketch pad" concept... though nothing I do will ever be construed as being "professional!" I guess I'm good as long as it's good enough to get local airplay!

You know... local radio... as one of my less supportive humorous a-hole friends just told me, he has heard a few people playing live for one of the "locals only" shows and immediately thought, "Hey, those guys are way worse than you, Mark!"

:)

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