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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:11 am
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arth1 wrote:
First of all, opioids were designed to give people a high. The incidental side effect of killing pain was exploited later.

Naturally occuring opioids were not designed by anyone for any purpose whatsover. They were employed by humans to achieve a variety of ends, as were the semi-synthetic and synthetic congeners of same.

Secondly, we're privileged to live in a country where there are only two types of pain killers, NSAIDs and opioids. Where other countries have had a couple of other choices for 20-40 years now, big pharma has so far succeeded in denying the new types of drugs which according to all studies have fewer side effects and are less lethal than opioids

Support your contentions with citations from the scientific literature comparing and contrasting the efficacy of the analgesics you offer up as evidence. Broad sweeping opinions being offered as facts have no place in this kind of discussion.


To top it off, the only strong opioid that is not habit forming is illegal here in the US for anything except treating drug abuse.

The word 'illegal' is incorrect. Buprenorphine is not currently approved by the FDA for the treatment of pain. That does not restrict a clinician from the use of the drug in an 'off-label' application for same. Moreover, your contention that the drug is not habit forming is based upon what science? You should familiarize yourself with the current science on the overdose, addiction, and diversion potential of bupenorphine and present it here as part of your advocacy. Moreover, any ongoing studies being conducted to support the appropriateness for the use of bupenorphine ought to be researched by you.



Yes, I'm one of the Americans who go to Europe for serious medical treatments. American medicine as it's practised lags a couple of generations behind the rest of the world. No one dares to be the first to offer anything, due to the fear of lawsuits. And the insurance companies have the doctors by the short and curlies.


Different strokes on this issue I always say. Continuity of care is the hallmark of good clinical practice. However you personally choose to address this issue is your choice and yours alone.
Again, your generalizations are too broad to support your argument. You have to offer unbiased evidence to support your claims. Evidence that supports the efficacy of that which is accomplished abroad as being superior to that stateside.

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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:16 am
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Prince was notoriously famous for the radically shaped "cloud" guitars he played since many years.

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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:21 am
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chromeface wrote:
Prince was notoriously famous for the radically shaped "cloud" guitars he played since many years.

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Yes, but was he a 'free radical'??

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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:35 am
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History will undoubtedly record the year 2016 as The Year the Music Died because of the number of aritsts we've lost (and it's only April... !!)

Cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:44 pm
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Location: On the loo, regretting that gas station burrito.
Yeah, it's been quite a few, not even going back a year ago.

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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:58 pm
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Lightnin MN wrote:
History will undoubtedly record the year 2016 as The Year the Music Died because of the number of aritsts we've lost (and it's only April... !!)

Keith Richards is still alive.


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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:03 pm
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My personal opinion is that opioids actually enhance musician performance and artistry.
Many people in many fields can function quite well...or even excel while using opioids, but eventually the chickens come home to roost when quantities needed for a fix become toxic.


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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:09 pm
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arth1 wrote:
Lightnin MN wrote:
History will undoubtedly record the year 2016 as The Year the Music Died because of the number of aritsts we've lost (and it's only April... !!)

Keith Richards is still alive.


And going strong... perhaps with the heart of a 14 year-old African beating in his chest...

I mean after all, doesn't he fit the demographic of those dabbling in the Illegal Organ Trade almost to a 'T'... ??

I wonder if his travel itinerary includes any unexplained extended trips to Private Clinics in say Scandinavia or the Russias... ?

Think about it...

:wink:

Cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:29 pm
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Lightnin MN wrote:
And going strong... perhaps with the heart of a 14 year-old African beating in his chest...

I mean after all, doesn't he fit the demographic of those dabbling in the Illegal Organ Trade almost to a 'T'... ??

I wonder if his travel itinerary includes any unexplained extended trips to Private Clinics in say Scandinavia or the Russias... ?

Think about it...


The rock and roll iteration of Dorian Gray.

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:59 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
The rock and roll iteration of Dorian Gray.


That would mean that somewhere there's a portrait hanging which must keep getting younger looking because Richards preently looks like an apple doll at this juncture, except for his new implant supported dentition.

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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:02 am
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ckmckool wrote:
My personal opinion is that opioids actually enhance musician performance and artistry.
Many people in many fields can function quite well...or even excel while using opioids, but eventually the chickens come home to roost when quantities needed for a fix become toxic.

I'd be interested in knowing how many fields you can document in which people are functioning optimally or exceeding well while using opioids. I have personal knowledge of two colleagues in my field who, some 30 years back, were involved in substance abuse situations. Their circumstances were such that it would be hard to be comfortable with the thought of their having 'hands on', performing clinical procedures, under the influence. One was eventually found dead in his bath tub. He had been using opioids to control chronic pain from a back injury he had sustained in the military. The other was an anesthesiologist who had easy access to these agents and was falsifying his dispensing records to cover the drugs he was stealing for personal use. During that time he was responsible for and supervising the teaching of ambulatory sedation and anesthesia to residents in our hospital program.

For the purposes of any further discussions anywhere, it important fo the reader to be able to differentiate between the following terms:

-Physical dependence: a biological adaptation to being exposed to an opioid which refers to the withdrawal symptoms that can follow abrupt discontinuation, rapid dose reduction or the administration of a narcotic antagonist. It can occur in as little as 48 hours.

-Tolerance: a biological adaptation characterized by the need for increased amounts of opioid for the desired amount of pain relief

-Addiction: opioid use disorder: behavioral, cognitive, and psychological experiences after repeated use of a drug resulting in persistent drug use, craving, and making the drug a priority in life.

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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:09 am
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Heres a couple of lists:
http://www.projectknow.com/15-famous-he ... they-used/
http://drugabuse.com/30-famous-musician ... lcoholism/

And who knows how many more aren't publc knowledge.


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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:21 am
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I'd say no mater what the autopsy and toxicology reports show, the man is still gone. And that is a true loss. I remember the day the Master died. James Marshall Hendrix.

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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:51 am
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Mr. Nylon wrote:
I'd say no mater what the autopsy and toxicology reports show, the man is still gone. And that is a true loss...

I have been thinking the same thing during all this "opioid" discussion. For me, I was honestly not a big fan of the guy up until the late 1990s. I had a musician's "deep respect" for him as being "very talented" but was not a fan. My wife (before we were married) was a HUGE Prince fan. In 1998, when he came to play the San Jose Event Center (relatively small 4,000 seat capacity), I was being forced to go ... and I did not want to. The show was 'general admission' with an open floor, but we were lucky enough to grab two seats right by the stage. Oh my God ... Prince and his band that night burned that place to the perverbial ground. I told her after the show that anytime she wants to see Prince, we will go. And we did ... I saw him 5 more times including a special midnight show at the Fillmore in San Francisco. The dude was awesome...

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Post subject: Re: Prince Is Dead
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:11 am
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Mr. Nylon wrote:
I remember the day the Master died. James Marshall Hendrix.


I was a *little busy* riding the tip of the foreign-policy spear in Southeast Asia when Jimi checked out and can't remember much about the event.

I do recollect though that 'Charlie' didn't get me that day.

:lol:

Arjay

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