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Post subject: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:04 am
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It's on the news here in the UK this morning that Led Zepplin have a court case in May over the possible "borrowing" of the famous opening of Stairway to heaven

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/a ... judge-says

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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:11 am
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A similar chord progression is found within Eric Clapton's "Let It Rain".

Will Slowhand be named as a co-defendant?

This entire episode reeks of nothing more than lawyers in love.

:roll:

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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:04 am
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Only one thing is certain.
Google searches for Taurus by Spirit will increase substantially.
The rest is a crap shoot.

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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:41 am
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There are only so many notes and ways to organize them in a way which the populace will find pleasing to the ear. Popular music recycles all sorts of chord progressions. Even people who don't listen to the blues knows that it's all recycled.

Here's an interesting video I found to demonstrate my point.


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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:48 am
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I like Led Zep, but...

A lot of their music (especially their lyrics) was nicked/stolen/misappropriated from other sources, often renamed and no credit given to the original writer.

"Whole Lotta Love" was (almost) a word-for-word ripoff of Willie Dixon's "You Need Love" (most famously recorded by Muddy Waters).

"Dazed and Confused" was written by folk singer Jake Holmes.

"How Many More Times" was very similar to Howlin' Wolf's " How Many More Years"

"Bring It On Home" was written by Willie Dixon and recorded by Sonny Boy Williamson.

"In My Time of Dying" was a traditional gospel tune.

"The Lemon Song" was a double accomplishment--it ripped off Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" (musically) and Robert Johnson's "Travelling Riverside Blues" (lyrically)...the latter of which they recorded, so they had to be aware of the connection.

Granted, they came up with some pretty amazing and creative musical arrangements for these songs...but it seems that they were betting on most of their audience never becoming aware of the originals.

We all lift riffs. We all have lyrics inspired by other songs or phrases. We all (consciously or not) duplicate other people's chord progressions and arrangements...

BUT (personally) I definitely give songwriting credit to whomever I'm taking away from, and Led Zeppelin should have given songwriting credits (and royalties) to the originators.

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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:50 pm
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I'm seeing a lot of comments around the web asking why the hell this is taking place now.
You know what?
I think that is a damned valid question.
40+ years it takes to clear your head and figure this out?
Boy them Spirit boys sure know how to party hearty and make it last.
If they're just coming down now then I'm glad I wasn't there.
I woulda died.

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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:09 pm
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It sounds like some lawyers trying to make a buck.

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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:34 pm
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Screamin Armadillo wrote:
I like Led Zep, but...

A lot of their music (especially their lyrics) was nicked/stolen/misappropriated from other sources, often renamed and no credit given to the original writer.

"Whole Lotta Love" was (almost) a word-for-word ripoff of Willie Dixon's "You Need Love" (most famously recorded by Muddy Waters).

"Dazed and Confused" was written by folk singer Jake Holmes.

"How Many More Times" was very similar to Howlin' Wolf's " How Many More Years"

"Bring It On Home" was written by Willie Dixon and recorded by Sonny Boy Williamson.

"In My Time of Dying" was a traditional gospel tune.

"The Lemon Song" was a double accomplishment--it ripped off Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" (musically) and Robert Johnson's "Travelling Riverside Blues" (lyrically)...the latter of which they recorded, so they had to be aware of the connection.

Granted, they came up with some pretty amazing and creative musical arrangements for these songs...but it seems that they were betting on most of their audience never becoming aware of the originals.

We all lift riffs. We all have lyrics inspired by other songs or phrases. We all (consciously or not) duplicate other people's chord progressions and arrangements...

BUT (personally) I definitely give songwriting credit to whomever I'm taking away from, and Led Zeppelin should have given songwriting credits (and royalties) to the originators.


Couldn't agree more. Its not like Led Zep hasn't been convicted of this before. It does sound nearly the same. But the timing does smack of somebody looking for a payday...and will probably get it.

T2

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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:00 am
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Evidently the re-mastering and re-release of the Led Zep catalogue allowed for overiding the statute of limitations on filing a case. Otherwise this could not be moving forward.


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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:55 pm
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As I also read, Randy California himself was never interested in a lawsuit though friends and his mom pointed out the alleged plagiarism. After his death, his mom (though she continued to disagree) honored his wishes and no lawsuit. It's only after she was gone that the rest of the band evidently are now in a position (ownership of rights) to sue, and so they did.


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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:05 pm
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paris wrote:
There are only so many notes and ways to organize them in a way which the populace will find pleasing to the ear. Popular music recycles all sorts of chord progressions. Even people who don't listen to the blues knows that it's all recycled.

Here's an interesting video I found to demonstrate my point.


Brilliant ! Thanks for posting Paris !

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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:14 pm
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Copyright is a double edge sword. While it has it's merits, I wonder where the music would have ended up had copyright been in effect since the beginning of time. I doubt if there would be a modern music industry rolling in dough. I think we all would be worse off, especially for those that make the music, and for those that listen to it. Also for those that sell it, and for those that buy it. Think of the music and lyrics that could have passed us by. (Well, I have no doubt that there will always be somebody who will find a way to take unfair advantage of controversial rules and ramified regulations making some happy, and even more with the opposite opinion). Still credit deserves to be given, perhaps, even more than money. IMHO. C'est la vie.

FSB

NB: I wonder how the rules work coming from the International Space Station and beyond. :roll: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:58 pm
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There's a bible verse that comes to mind while I read this thread.
I'm no bible scholar so I can't remember the reference.
One of the small poetry books in the middle of the old testament, I think.

There is nothing new under the sun.

(Ecclesiastes - Google is my friend)

What has been will be again
What has been done will be done again
There is nothing new under the sun

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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:16 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
What has been will be again
What has been done will be done again
There is nothing new under the sun


You reckon we'll eventually re-invent the death ray that they had during the time of Atlantis?

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Did Led Zep pinch their intro
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:56 pm
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I have to admit to not knowing very much about Atlantis except that the Greek skeptic Plato implied its existence somewhere off the west coast of Africa and that his rep as a skeptic pretty much accounts for the persistence of the myth. That's about as much as I know. That and the (fact) they had slaves. Ray guns are beyond my familiarity.

HOWEVER ...
If ray-guns once existed, according to Holy Scripture, they will again.
That's Bible, my friend.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen.


(Wow ... 8 years of catechism finally doing me some good. And at this late stage in life. Who'd a-thunk?)
8)

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