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Post subject: So what to do...
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:17 pm
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TL;DR: I need a acoustic guitar that is similar to the strat.

Initially I thought I was going to self learn (or relearn) guitar but I noticed it's going awfully slowly but still fun. As a guitar is one of those instruments that you can carry around the house to get a "more" relaxed position.(Which is just me sitting on the edge of my bed) Why I'm saying this is piano chairs hurt after some hours of sitting on it. The reason I say awfully slowly now is that I learning some chords I never learned before and I have a good feeling I'm doing it wrong. And that is why it's now on a slow patch. So I decided to go and look for a guitar class in the real world and I did find one in some of the local school, but their requirement is acoustic guitars only. They don't allow classical nor electric. The only 2 types of guitars I have they don't allow. This is generally for the nearby schools that have this requirement.

Is there a guitar that is similar to the strat but is a acoustic? Because I don't want to loose the feel of my strat. Me as a person has garbage adaptability in "feeling" as in just going from classic to the strat felt like I was starting from new again. That said there is about a few years of me just quitting the guitar.

Another question I doubt people can answer is why is my local schools has that rule? I can understand electric it can be a bit quiet, but classic and acoustic should be similar. Sure 3 nylon strings but acoustic and classic should be on the same level of loudness. Maybe finger placements?


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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:09 pm
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So I take it you're looking for an acoustic with a relatively small, narrow neck profile similar to an electric guitar? In that case maybe look at smaller acoustics such as folk and parlour sized guitars. Many tend to have a smaller neck which is easier to get around. The other difference to "feel" will of course be the string guage. On your Start you're probably using 9-42 whereas most acoustics will be 12-54 (much tougher on the fingers).


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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:58 pm
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I have a Breedlove C25 with an electric guitar-friendly neck and smaller body. Also has build in (in the sound hole) electronics. This was their entry level US made a few years ago and was under $1K (from memory) at the time.

My Guild F-50 also has an electric-style neck but there you have a much larger body and no electronics. Of the two, I reach for the Breedlove in a substitute-for-an-electic situation.


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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:41 pm
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Here are two that might work for you Icywolfe
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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:45 pm
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It is entirely possible I may be in the minority here but I am of the belief that it is a mistake to try to get an acoustic to feel like an electric. I searched for years for ways to make my acoustic guitars feel and play more like electric guitars. All I ever succeeded in doing was to learn a valuable lesson. The lesson is this: It is a no-win situation. Any gains you make in the areas of overall feel and action will be offset by losses in the areas of volume, tone, character and general usability. My advise is to put all such silly notions out of your head. Get used to the sound and feel of an acoustic guitar. Embrace it. Learn to love it.

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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:20 pm
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
Here are two that might work for you Icywolfe
Image Image

I actually looked at those but I wonder how good are they as I don't see any reviews of the guitar and the one youtube video of it is plugged in and the other is flimed with a potato and a carrot mic.


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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:54 pm
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I haven't tried them either Icywolfe. My thought was your concern about neck comfort which would be addressed by these models. If you could possibly try them if not then I agree with Matt, " Get used to the sound and feel of an acoustic guitar. Embrace it. Learn to love it."
an acoustic is the way to go 8)

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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:17 am
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Icywolfe wrote:
Another question I doubt people can answer is why is my local schools has that rule? I can understand electric it can be a bit quiet, but classic and acoustic should be similar. Sure 3 nylon strings but acoustic and classic should be on the same level of loudness. Maybe finger placements?

I can see several reasons.
Costs and availability. Most families will have an old steel-string in a closet, or if they don't, they're affordable. Schools that may want to attract low income families might not want to be exclusive.
Classical guitars means fingerplay. With steel string acoustics, you lower the bar as you don't need teachers who're capable of teaching fingerplay and students dedicated enough to learn it.
A curved fingerboard is more friendly for playing chords. Especially for small hands.

The lowest common denominator is going to be steel string acoustics. And the quality of the teaching is likely not going to be worth much.
I think you might be better off by going to YouTube and finding instructional videos. Just beware, not everything on YouTube is named accordingly. Some videos "for beginners" assume that you already know far more than the basics.

And no, no acoustic is going to give you the feel of an electric. You have to pluck the strings harder on an acoustic, as only the string produce the energy that becomes sound. Higher action, stiffer strings, shorter necks, they're just not going to feel or play the same. I think you certainly can become a better electric guitar player by also playing an acoustic, much like you can by picking up any other instrument. But they're different animals. Becoming an expert camel rider won't make you an expert horse rider.


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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:45 am
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Many believe playing an acoustic can be a great compliment to your learning (where skills, although different, can be transferable to the electric). This of course, is subjective and opinion varies.

Much of this concept comes from the fact that teachers and experience suggest that more attention and time spent to playing, rather than gear tweaking, is a key point with acoustics versus electrics. Having had 6 and 12 strings, large gauge and nylon strings, and now an electric, I get that.

There's no guarantee that this will make you a better electric player; but, it can't hurt, and many great electric players are also great acoustic players. The acoustic and electric each have their advantages and unique characteristics. In the end, the sound counts for both.

Regarding playability, proper setup is a must, adding kindness to your fingers, and. therefore, construction may be a strong consideration. As SBLS suggested, you might like those Fenders, or another brand might be a good choice depending on your needs.

Fender Sonoran has been a longtime popular entry model with a similar neck to the Strat, and for a little more cash the historical Fender Kingman Jumbo is similar . . . both with electronics, and without breaking the bank. The cool looks don't hurt either. On the other hand, take a look at Willie Nelson's guitar Trigger, the body is worn through with a hole from heavy picking, looks like a war zone, and sounds fantastic.

There's plenty of good acoustics in the new and used market, Guild and Breedlove included, and trying other necks/guitars as mentioned, is something that becomes second nature if you get the right fit. Once again, you'll have to like the sound, regardless of the shape and size. One last thing, whether you play electric or not, your acoustic may be your go to guitar because of portability, so you'll want it to be one that isn't collecting dust in the corner. Enjoy the experience.

FSB

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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:02 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
It is entirely possible I may be in the minority here but I am of the belief that it is a mistake to try to get an acoustic to feel like an electric...
...My advise is to put all such silly notions out of your head. Get used to the sound and feel of an acoustic guitar. Embrace it. Learn to love it.


Exactly. All the dynamics are lost on an acoustic when you try and get them to feel like an electric.

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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:59 am
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nikininja wrote:
BMW-KTM wrote:
It is entirely possible I may be in the minority here but I am of the belief that it is a mistake to try to get an acoustic to feel like an electric...
...My advise is to put all such silly notions out of your head. Get used to the sound and feel of an acoustic guitar. Embrace it. Learn to love it.

Exactly. All the dynamics are lost on an acoustic when you try and get them to feel like an electric.

I have tried both the Telecoustic and the Stratacoustic in a music store a while back. Um, well... I remember putting them back up on the wall and just walking away. Use your own judgement, I don't know... I mean... I'm just sayin'... :roll:


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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:24 am
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Icywolfe wrote:
Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
Here are two that might work for you Icywolfe
Image Image

I actually looked at those but I wonder how good are they as I don't see any reviews of the guitar and the one youtube video of it is plugged in and the other is flimed with a potato and a carrot mic.

I have tried them, especially the Tele variety, which I borrowed the more expensive model of for a few days.

To summarize my experience: I love the looks.
Read into that what you want. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:26 am
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Fender Strat Brat brushes up REALLY closely to my thoughts about skill, learning and tone development.
Whenever the subject of tone comes up, invariably someone will say tone starts with your fingers/hands and there is definitely a good measure of truth in that statement. I won't go as far as some do and insist it is the be-all-to-end-all but there's no mistaking your hands have a profound effect on your tone. When it comes to acoustic guitars, you don't have amps and stomp boxes and digital modellers to direct your tone in a specific direction. All you have is your guitar and your hands. Since the guitar is a constant the only effective variable is your hands. Whether you sound amazing or like total shyte is completely contained in the nature of your touch. An electric guitar has nowhere near as much potential to force you to learn technique, touch dynamics and the importance of cleaning up your articulation. My belief is that if you can teach yourself to sound good on an acoustic guitar then it can't possibly do anything but help you when playing an electric. The reverse is rarely true. There is very little you can learn when isolated to electric-only that will translate nicely to an acoustic when the time comes.

I've been missing the input of our favourite Martian lately so I will end with his signature tagline.

As always, YMMV.
You dig?

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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:56 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Fender Strat Brat brushes up REALLY closely to my thoughts about skill, learning and tone development.
Whenever the subject of tone comes up, invariably someone will say tone starts with your fingers/hands and there is definitely a good measure of truth in that statement. I won't go as far as some do and insist it is the be-all-to-end-all but there's no mistaking your hands have a profound effect on your tone. When it comes to acoustic guitars, you don't have amps and stomp boxes and digital modellers to direct your tone in a specific direction. All you have is your guitar and your hands. Since the guitar is a constant the only effective variable is your hands. Whether you sound amazing or like total shyte is completely contained in the nature of your touch. An electric guitar has nowhere near as much potential to force you to learn technique, touch dynamics and the importance of cleaning up your articulation. My belief is that if you can teach yourself to sound good on an acoustic guitar then it can't possibly do anything but help you when playing an electric. The reverse is rarely true. There is very little you can learn when isolated to electric-only that will translate nicely to an acoustic when the time comes.

I've been missing the input of our favourite Martian lately so I will end with his signature tagline.

As always, YMMV.
You dig?

Well I don't use my programmable amp and one mooer mod factory much my my strat. I like the sound of it when directly plugged into my headphone amp which has little to no coloring of the sound. Because I noticed that if I plug it in to the fender amp I can do mistakes and still it won't show up as much. Like if I brush up against another string I can't hear the buzz or muting of the string as much. But when hooked up to my headphone amp it's clear. Hard to explain why I like it like this though as the neck pickup is very not bright but is pleasurable at times and the bridge pickup is like my most favorite as it's brightest and is the easiest place to know if I did a mistake.

Also I like playing my strat unplugged. I think I mainly like the strat because of the body cut outs and the neck.
Fender Strat Brat wrote:
Fender Sonoran has been a longtime popular entry model with a similar neck to the Strat, and for a little more cash the historical Fender Kingman Jumbo is similar . . . both with electronics, and without breaking the bank. The cool looks don't hurt either. On the other hand, take a look at Willie Nelson's guitar Trigger, the body is worn through with a hole from heavy picking, looks like a war zone, and sounds fantastic.

There's plenty of good acoustics in the new and used market, Guild and Breedlove included, and trying other necks/guitars as mentioned, is something that becomes second nature if you get the right fit. Once again, you'll have to like the sound, regardless of the shape and size. One last thing, whether you play electric or not, your acoustic may be your go to guitar because of portability, so you'll want it to be one that isn't collecting dust in the corner. Enjoy the experience.

FSB

Does the Sonoran or the Kingman have razor frets? Because I want to avoid stuff coming from the same factory as the squiers. As I tried some of the Squier guitars a while ago and they seem to have razor or sharp frets near the 11- 15 area.

For the sound wise I hated my classical guitar it sounded dull. I suppose I prefer brighter sounds.


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Post subject: Re: So what to do...
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:32 am
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Well, whether the fret ends are sharp or not on any guitar depends on several factors. Bound fingerboards and unbound fingerboards come into play for example. Bound fingerboards can be kinder to your fingers reducing the chance of sharp frets. Cost to refret and attention to the binding can be a minor concern; but, this isn't going to be an immediate issue in any case. Sharp ends of an unbound neck can occur from either a poor installation job, a price related guitar, material, or, in my case, the weather/humidity as neck wood can act up in drier conditions and cause shrinkage. You probably are aware that acoustics and other hollow bodies are more susceptible than electrics to humidity problems, but that can be controlled easily.

I recently had my Strat's neck dressed by a luthier for about $50 Cdn. My axe was fine when new, but after a couple of years the fret ends protruded slightly. This occurred when I noticed what appeared to be tiny paper cuts on my fret fingers. Seems the Winter snuck up on me, but all is fine now. This never happened with my guitars when I lived on the rainy coast. I do have some suspicion that my maple neck would and did shrink easier than the denser hardwood of rosewood, although, I can't say for sure. Anyhow, my luthier did a great job and it's better than it was new.

I've heard arguments for and against bound necks as well as unbound. Some think either one can, if not using the right materials, look cheap, and others prefer to see where they are on the fretboard without the binding. I've used both without contemplating a problem. YMMV.

The point is, I wouldn't be overly concerned about the frets as long as dressing them now or in the future is possible. Even more expensive guitars fall into this category. Still, it's nice to have smooth ones to start with, maybe that can be negotiated or you can, if you are adventurous, learn how to do it yourself. Perhaps, one's consideration developed some shrinkage and extended frets on transit, or over time. If I found the acoustic or any other guitar I wanted, I wouldn't necessarily let a little fretwork hold me back unless I had a better option.

There is a lot about dressing and levelling frets on YouTube and elsewhere.

Here's a short sample. Even though it's a classical with nylon strings, the same principle applies.


Hope this helps, Icywolfe.

FSB

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Last edited by Fender Strat Brat on Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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