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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:09 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
I think you're barking up the wrong tree there, strings.
Like he said, sell as many cheaply made amps as you want but just leave the Fender name out of it.

Why? What's wrong with selling inexpensive amps? Maybe the youngsters who can't afford a $1600 tube amp would still like to play something from Fender. Why do you care? Sounds like a matter of 'N.I.M.B.Y.'.

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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:15 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
What's wrong with selling inexpensive amps?


Nothing except for the inescapable fact that those "inexpensive amps" are synonymous with disposable JUNK that not even the company that builds them bothers to repair -- they just toss the hapless customer a new one if it happens to be covered by warranty or tells them to pound sand if it isn't.

There was a time when Fender was considered to be the Sak's Fifth Avenue of amp companies.

Now they're the Dollar General Store.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:38 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
There was a time when Fender was considered to be the Sak's Fifth Avenue of amp companies.

Great example. Sak's has some real high quality and appropriately priced beanies:

Swarovski Crystal-Embellished Merino Wool & Silk Beanie

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$495.00

But they've also got these $20 jobbies:

Portolano Mushroom Beanie
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$20.00

:)

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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:03 pm
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Probably made in the same sweatshop. :P

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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:48 pm
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I'm unsure what my back yard has to do with anything.

When Porsche sells midrange luxury and low-mid economical cars they rebadge them to Audi and VW.

I wonder if the toques you show are the same brand.

Also, I think the real question is not why should I care but rather why doesn't FMIC? They go to great lengths to ensure their great old guitars are faithfully recreated using good quality components. Why not the amps? I believe it is because of one fundamental truth. People wrongly think guitars are sexy and amps are boring. That may not be exactly the dynamic at play but for whichever reason, they're willing to shell out for a guitar but not an amp when the exact opposite is what they should be doing.

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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:22 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Also, I think the real question is not why should I care but rather why doesn't FMIC? They go to great lengths to ensure their great old guitars are faithfully recreated using good quality components. Why not the amps? I believe it is because of one fundamental truth. People wrongly think guitars are sexy and amps are boring. That may not be exactly the dynamic at play but for whichever reason, they're willing to shell out for a guitar but not an amp when the exact opposite is what they should be doing.

One word: Appearance.
The guitars are not faithfully recreated. They are created to appear like the originals. But legal Brazilean rosewood is too expensive, and who wants the old spray process that leaves spike holes, and the guitarists certainly don't want to play with .013s and a wound G-string. Even the Custom Shop models are modernized. But they look the same. Somewhat. From a distance.

And an amp isn't what the audience watches - they watch the artists and their costumes, which for guitar players includes a guitar. Again, appearance.


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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:52 pm
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arth1 wrote:
And an amp isn't what the audience watches - they watch the artists and their costumes, which for guitar players includes a guitar. Again, appearance.


The amp is the under-appreciated half of rock and roll. And if it's not up to the task when that artist takes to the stage, then he better be real good at lip-synching.

:lol:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:23 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
The amp is the under-appreciated half of rock and roll.

Oh, no disagreement from me there.

And pairing the right amp and guitar is important too.
I have an SG that sounds crap on a Fender amp, but awesome with an Orange. If I were to venture a guess, the warmer "old sound" humbuckers in the SG just do better with the EL34 tubes than 6L6s.

Anyways, I still think that a lot of people go to concerts to treat their eyes more than their ears, and that is somewhat reflected by the players too - weighing stage presence a bit higher than the amp quality, alas.

I saw a stage pic not long ago with several full stacks of Marshalls not plugged into anything, and behind them a tiny Vox AC-15, close-mic'ed and plugged into the PA. Appearance and good sound. :D


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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:34 pm
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Sadly it is about image way too much! Too many times we have seen the fake Marshall stacks from behind and they are all empty and sitting behind them is a miked combo!

I would say that Fender has at different times acknowledged their company's amp history although it does seem they get overly ambitious from time to time wishing to become the biggest and forgetting how they got there with rock solid products. Fender does seem to have learned that the modeling amps must not look like their vintage offerings.

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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:48 pm
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Bluer Monkey wrote:
arth1 wrote:
Close the direct sales and stop alienating small retailers.
It didn't work well for Quiksilver, and won't work well for Fender.

The last time I went to the local music store, they did not have a single new Fender. Guess what I didn't try, and didn't buy.
I assumed that Fender, or any company that sells directly to the public, would take measures to ensure that they are NOT in competition with their own retailers. Unless the goal is to move towards 100% direct sales, I don't see the logic in competing with the people who are selling your products.

One gripe I've heard from more than one local friendly Fender retailer is not being able to keep enough in stock because there are so many choices. Take the American Standard as an example. If a retailer wanted to have one of each in stock - and if my math is correct - he would need space for 32 guitars and this is just for one model.

American Standard (6 x 2)
American Standard HSS Shawbucker (5 x 2)
American Standard HH (4 x 1)
American Standard Left Hand (3 x 2)

Cheers!
BM


I know two small retailers and the problem with Fender (even worse with Gibson) is the amount of stock you have to take. Its not a case of sell a guitar then get a replacement; you have to commit to $X of new stock per time period regardless of your sales. The big retailers have the same conditions and some argue that's why all the rumors that GC has financial issues. It is true that you'd be in that boat if you can't unload existing stock even while having to take more.

Fender in effect divorces their sales from the economy, how many are interested in playing and so on by pushing their output onto the wholesale and retail levels. While they're not competing with small retailers, the policy does force them to stop offering Fender unless they have a unique high sales volume. Today, that's not the situation with either of the two small retailers I know. As CEO, about the only way I could help them would be to say that retailers below a certain volume could purchase on a "replace as sold" basis.


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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:36 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
BMW-KTM wrote:
I think you're barking up the wrong tree there, strings.
Like he said, sell as many cheaply made amps as you want but just leave the Fender name out of it.

Why? What's wrong with selling inexpensive amps? Maybe the youngsters who can't afford a $1600 tube amp would still like to play something from Fender. Why do you care? Sounds like a matter of 'N.I.M.B.Y.'.

No, most youngsters can't afford a $1600 tube amp...(right now, I can't afford a $1600 tube amp! I'm fortunate to have something great that I bought 23 years ago)...but many/most of those youngsters are willing and able to buy a Squier, Epiphone, or LTD guitar.

Make some decent, cheap, affordable amps...but reserve the Fender name for the good stuff.

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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:24 pm
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Screamin Armadillo wrote:
Make some decent, cheap, affordable amps...but reserve the Fender name for the good stuff.


Contingent upon them actually making some stuff that's good -- that is to say, equaling or surpassing the legendary benchmark of what they built in the past in terms of quality, durability, and reliability. Absent those vital attributes, they're back to the Dollar General Store.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:59 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Contingent upon them actually making some stuff that's good -- that is to say, equaling or surpassing the legendary benchmark of what they built in the past in terms of quality, durability, and reliability. Absent those vital attributes, they're back to the Dollar General Store.

Unfortunately, they also have to compete on price.

Some of what they've done lately seems quite questionable to me, like the new Bassbreakers. If I want a Bluesbreaker or Vox, I'm going to buy a Bluesbreaker or Vox, no? In my opinion, it's a bit like if Fender came out with an archtop Los Pablo...

The exception, maybe, being the Bassbreaker 18/30, which isn't like the others, but seems to have Fender heritage, using the circuitry from a clean Blackface Deluxe and a dirty Brown Deluxe in the same head. Maybe that's a good amp for people who want two distinct Fender sounds without carrying two amps. For $850 in a cab with two Vintage Celestions, it seems like a very competitive price.
But it's way too early to say anything about quality. I won't hold that they're built in MX against them, but what's the components and trace like - will I able to maintain it? If I knew it was old school quality, I'd order one today. I don't, so I don't.


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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:44 am
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arth1 wrote:
Unfortunately, they also have to compete on price. ...
True. I suppose the question would be how can we produce an amp that will last 25 years in what has been coined a "disposable" society. Would it be possible (read profitable) to have one line for the consumer who will gladly pay $1,400 for a HRD that comes with the 25-year Arjay guarantee and another line for the customer who is happy to pay $700 for a HRD and take his chances with the 5-year warranty?

Cheers!
BM

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Post subject: Re: If you were a Fender CEO for a day ...
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:24 am
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Bluer Monkey wrote:
I suppose the question would be how can we produce an amp that will last 25 years in what has been coined a "disposable" society. Would it be possible (read profitable) to have one line for the consumer who will gladly pay $1,400 for a HRD that comes with the 25-year Arjay guarantee and another line for the customer who is happy to pay $700 for a HRD and take his chances with the 5-year warranty?


I think so. Other manufacturers do just that with more expensive "handwired" variations that carry a lifetime warranty.

Also note that Fender's 5 year warranty isn't all that good - it's a limited warranty that doesn't even match the law mandated warranty and redress rights many places (like Europe). But the main concern isn't the warranty, but that the MTBF is high enough that the warranty won't come into play at all except in very rare cases.
I'd much rather have a product with a 95% chance of surviving daily use for X years and which I have to pay repairs for than one with a 75% chance and a warranty covering it when it doesn't. For me, it's not about who pays (the customer pays anyhow, up front or later), but whether it's built to last.


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