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Post subject: Amp and Guitar volume Balance
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:49 am
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For years, I have been kept my guitar volume at about 8 - 10 (depending on song) and my amp volume setting at about 3 or 4 (for every song). I find that I lose some treble when I lower the guitar's volume, which I don't always like. (I like do get as much as I can from the pickups)

A friend of mine has a different perspective. He puts the amp volume between 8 - 10, and the uses the guitar volume as needed. (This seems to get more out of the amp)

I realize that tone and sound are based on personal proferance, but what's your thoughts on this? Which do you feel is better and why?


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Post subject: Re: Amp and Guitar volume Balance
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:16 am
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I set my amp volume contingent upon the size of the venue and the specific Fender amp I happen to be playing. This setting is *usually* constant and arrived at with my guitar's volume maxxed out. From that point, I'll back the level down via the guitar based on the particular song, diming it when a solo is called for.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Amp and Guitar volume Balance
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:50 am
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The amp dimed and the vol control on the guitar - that's how Roy Buchanan used to play.

Now, I'm not a pro musician (and I find it funny & embarrassing it says so on my forum description), but I play by that principle if possible. A tube amp cleans/distorts amazingly with just a flick of the guitar's vol knob - not to mention the endless sounds/swells Roy could do (& I can reach for).

I've posted this link before, but since paris seems to be leaning evermore to blues, maybe it's time for a rerun. In the end Roy just walks to the frontside of his amp to get the feedback maxxed...


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Post subject: Re: Amp and Guitar volume Balance
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:08 pm
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The answer will depend on if you are talking about a tube amp and if it has a master volume. Here's three generic scenarios to use for a tube amp with a Master Volume:
1. Clean - M.V. 8 to 10, Preamp Volume 6 to 8, Guitar Volume 3 to 4
2. Overdrive - M.V. 8 to 10, Preamp Volume 3 to 4, Guitar Volume 7 to 10
3. Distortion - M.V. 3 to 4, Preamp Volume 6 to 8, Guitar Volume 8 to 10
So,
Clean you're creating no bottle necks for the signal, just clear flow
Overdrive, you're creating a bottle neck where the guitar signal is hotter than the preamp signal.
Distortion, you're creating a bottle neck where the preamp signal is hotter than the amp section being controlled by the master volume.

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Post subject: Re: Amp and Guitar volume Balance
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:06 pm
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Paris, depending on the type of volume pots and components used in your guitar's wiring, it is not uncommon for the treble to be attenuated when the pot is turned down amd the signal level attenuates. This characteristic can varies by make and model guitar, and is anyonye's guess when it comes to custom guitar wiring & switching setups.

The earlier posts did a great job of explaining how to approach various settings of your guitar and the amp's controls. Basically, they provide a guide to Gain Staging (i.e. a technique of setting/adjusting the signal level at each stage of the signal chain) to achieve the results you want to hear without any individual point maxing out the headroom of that particular stage (unless that is the sound result you are going for).

If perhaps you may be using a modeling amp or a solid state amp, the concept of gain staging is particularly important to eliminate the negative audible effects of digital clipping. Gain staging to maintain a bit of headroom in each stage of the signal chain in the amp (Pre-amp's Gain, Volume, FX return, if applicable, and the Amp's Main Volume) is where you find the magic! If your guitar has active pickups, then the Guitar's signal level output can very much impact gain staging. The same applies to any pedals and stomp boxes that can boost signal levels before reaching any the Amp.

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Post subject: Re: Amp and Guitar volume Balance
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:13 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
I set my amp volume contingent upon the size of the venue and the specific Fender amp I happen to be playing. This setting is *usually* constant and arrived at with my guitar's volume maxxed out. From that point, I'll back the level down via the guitar based on the particular song, diming it when a solo is called for.

Arjay

+1


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Post subject: Re: Amp and Guitar volume Balance
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:37 pm
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paris wrote:
I find that I lose some treble when I lower the guitar's volume, which I don't always like. (I like do get as much as I can from the pickups)


Have you tried adding a treble bleed to the volume pot? They are inexpensive and easy to install.

http://www2.fender.com/experience/fende ... 1415399965

Stew-Mac has one that is very small.

8)

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Post subject: Re: Amp and Guitar volume Balance
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:50 pm
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That treble bleed is a cool little component.


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Post subject: Re: Amp and Guitar volume Balance
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:09 pm
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Eroot64 wrote:
That treble bleed is a cool little component.


+1

And relatively easy to install (requires only competent soldering skills and a small, low-temp soldering pencil).

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Amp and Guitar volume Balance
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:43 am
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Have you tried adding a treble bleed to the volume pot? They are inexpensive and easy to install.

exactly!

that solves the problem of treble loss when you pull back the guitar volumes


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Post subject: Re: Amp and Guitar volume Balance
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:52 am
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Every venue is different and dynamics change a lot. I try and find
the "sweet spot" during soundchecks and stay "in the zone" from there.

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Post subject: Re: Amp and Guitar volume Balance
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:39 am
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Without considering overdriving input of amps, as others have already addressed:

The lower the signal strength, the greater impact noise will have[*].
Keeping the guitar volume as high as possible and amp volume as low as possible reduces noise, at the cost of losing dynamics.

If going straight from guitar with not-too-hot humbuckers or P90s to a good amp, I can see the value in keeping the guitar volume down and let the amp do the work. Jazz musicians might do just that to lose as little dynamics as possible. But for most uses, I think that setting the volume of the amp to match the highest volume you're going to play, and only use the guitar volume control to reduce from that is the way to go.
Some might even want a boost pedal first in the pedal chain to kick in only when you really need to cut through, so they can keep the amp volume down and not amplify noise.

[*]: If your signal is at -25 dBv and you pick up 10 dB noise, that affects the clarity a heck of a lot more than if your signal is at -10 dBv and you pick up 10 dB noise. The amplifier amplifies the noise just as much as it amplifies the signal, so giving it more signal means it can be set to a lower level and amplify the noise less.


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