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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:01 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
What's the tolerance on Fender's pickup specs? 1%? 5%? 10%? If 10% the actual measured resistance of those pickups could vary by about +/- 600 ohms. Most pots are usually 10% or 20%. Caps can be 50% or more unless you use very high quality caps. Vintage carbon comp resistors are usually 20%. Metal film can be 1%. I'd be willing to bet every one of the pickups mentioned in this thread are within tolerance.


I was wondering that myself. I think 600 ohms changes the sound a bit. Maybe specs should be published as follows for Fat 50's. Neck: 5.7k-6.3k, middle: 6.0k-6.6k, and bridge: 5.9k-6.5k. At +or- 5%, my bridge pickup would be out of spec.

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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:01 pm
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I believe it's + or - 10%.....+ or - 5% seems wat too tight a tolerance for consumer grade electronics...I'm sure I've read elswhere on this forum it's 10%.
Working in the manufacturing field, when turning out product in large volume, QA dept. doesn't catch every mistake made...sometimes you get things that aren't quite right. This is why we save our reciepts.
I would venture a guess also that the pu's are in spec, or relatively close.

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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:12 pm
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Arnold Layne wrote:
I believe it's + or - 10%.....+ or - 5% seems wat too tight a tolerance for consumer grade electronics...I'm sure I've read elswhere on this forum it's 10%.
Working in the manufacturing field, when turning out product in large volume, QA dept. doesn't catch every mistake made...sometimes you get things that aren't quite right. This is why we save our reciepts.
I would venture a guess also that the pu's are in spec, or relatively close.


At +or- 10%, you have a huge difference in dc resistance. Basically a crap shoot. The neck could be 5.4k-6.6k, 2 completely different sounding pickups.

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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:16 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Vintage carbon comp resistors are usually 20%.


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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:34 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Vintage carbon comp resistors are usually 20%.


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Arjay


Correct me if I'm wrong Arjay, but 10% tolerance means 5% below and 5% above rated value.

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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:39 pm
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Actually, 10% tolerance means the measurement could vary 10% in either direction.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:51 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Actually, 10% tolerance means the measurement could vary 10% in either direction.

Arjay


I must have been asleep in Biloxi on that day.

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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:07 pm
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That A-shift "hike" from the triangle to Alley Hall had a tendency to do that.

:wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:11 pm
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rjake wrote:
Arnold Layne wrote:
I believe it's + or - 10%.....+ or - 5% seems wat too tight a tolerance for consumer grade electronics...I'm sure I've read elswhere on this forum it's 10%.
Working in the manufacturing field, when turning out product in large volume, QA dept. doesn't catch every mistake made...sometimes you get things that aren't quite right. This is why we save our reciepts.
I would venture a guess also that the pu's are in spec, or relatively close.


At +or- 10%, you have a huge difference in dc resistance. Basically a crap shoot. The neck could be 5.4k-6.6k, 2 completely different sounding pickups.


I would agree. I think +or-10% is way too generous and not really even necessary. Fender should easily be capable of winding Custom Shop pickups to a stricter tolerance. Most stock/standard Fender pickups are typically closer to spec than that.

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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:52 pm
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I believe they are quite capable. I don't have any sets that are way off. I have TS, CS69's. 52/62's, fat 50's,Tex-Mex and also stock AM Std. pu's...I would have to see evidence of some mass proportion of pu's being way off spec before making an assumption that there is a QA issue. sometimes you get a gooch. Best then when buying brand new to ohm the set out, and if not satisfied return.

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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:33 am
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Arnold Layne wrote:
I would have to see evidence of some mass proportion of pu's being way off spec before making an assumption that there is a QA issue.


There seems to be a preponderance of recent anecdotal evidence that supports the contention that there is an issue with the current Fat 50's sets.

It might be wise to take those DCR measurements right in the store before the purchase, lest there be disappointment down the road.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:43 am
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Unless someone can come up with the actual tolerances that Fender uses for pickups, all discussion is purely conjecture. Pickups are part of an LCR network of which resistance is only part of the equation in how they sound. Add up all the tolerances of the guitar/amp signal chain. You might be surprised at what you find.

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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:30 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Unless someone can come up with the actual tolerances that Fender uses for pickups, all discussion is purely conjecture. Pickups are part of an LCR network of which resistance is only part of the equation in how they sound. Add up all the tolerances of the guitar/amp signal chain. You might be surprised at what you find.



Well sure, everything shapes the tone... But getting back to the pickups themselves... I don't know if Fender has ever made their pickup tolerances public, I can only make judgements based on my own experiences with them, and it seems to me that Fender can do very well keeping the specs tight in some cases. I have measured about 10 sets of Custom 60s and a half dozen sets of Custom 50s and they have all been very tight. CS54s, Fat 50s, and Texas Specials have been slightly looser, but then Texas Specials also had their specs revised somewhere along the way. The only Fender Custom Shop pickup that seems to be routinely off spec is the CS69. And while it can be said that the CS69 pickups I have measured in the 5.2k to 5.3k range are within a 10% margin, if +or-10% was the tolerance I would think I would have found many more that were above the published spec of 5.8k. In fact, I've found only a couple pickups that read just over 5.9k, and nothing greater than that. This is partly why I think that Fender is actually winding the CS69 to a different spec than what is published.

I also have an older set of Fat 50s that are almost dead-on to the spec. But then I've had 3 sets of Abby's hand wound Fat 50s that were overwound to spec, just not quite as much as the OP's set. Perhaps Fender is now winding the Fat 50s a bit fatter than before? Or maybe it is just an anomaly...

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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:41 pm
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SMark wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
but then Texas Specials also had their specs revised somewhere along the way.


+1

I believe this unacknowledged change occurred sometime in 2003.

Coincidentally, the pole-piece beveling became much cruder looking.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fat 50's Texas Special Pickups.
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:48 am
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I don't buy a lot of pickups, but my previous purchase of a set of Nocasters was good they were all in spec. I also remember checking the pickups in a Classic 50s Strat and all three were 5.6k. I thought to myself that's nice they wind them to the same spec as the 57/62 set.

My latest buy was a Fender Ltd 2013 58 Strat made in Japan, only 252 allotted to North America. This was a really nicely made guitar, but with Ceramic pickups. So I thought a set of Fat 50s would be a good choice for replacements.

After mounting the Fat 50s I was disappointed with the neck pickup sounding so bassy and checked the reading on it and got 6.67k instead of 6.0k. The middle was ok at 6.3k and the bridge was 6.4k. I didn't mind the bridge being higher then spec so I switched the bridge pickup with the neck pickup to get things more balanced.

I believe all the winding machines have counters on them so they should be closer to spec. But perhaps they got a bad batch of wire which is throwing things out of whack.


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