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Post subject: Guitar electronics problem
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:16 pm
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Hi all,

I have a 70's style strat I bought in 2002 made in mexico. I recently did some needed work on the guitar. The neck didn't seem to sit right to me so I did some sanding in the cavity and trimmed the pickgaurd a bit and disable the microtilt. I leveled the frets as well and I remove the plastic string nut and made a new for it.
Now came time to reduce the noise as much as posible so I used copper and shielded the

routing cavity as well as the output jack cavity. I also unsoldered the ground wire from the

trem springs holder and grounded it to the shielding in the routing cavity. I did this

so I'm not part of the electronics when touching the strings. Safty first. Quite a bit of

hum was reduced but I still find that the pickups pickup a lot of RF signal, even my tv

remote. This my be normal I don't know but the big problem is I hear a crackle sound when I

touch any of the pickup adjustment screws or pickgaurd screws etc and I don't know why. It's

very noticable when I play and my fingers happen to touch a screw. All wiring connects look

good to me. Nice shiny solder etc. Any suggestions is appreciated.

BobV 8)


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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:23 pm
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Its sounds like there still is a grounding issue. I'd try re-grounding at the trem claw, because to me it sounds like the mod you did to not become part of the electronics has actually caused you to become part of the electronics. I never knew there was an issue with grounding on the tremolo claw as I have seen this done in many guitars ever since I started playing 20 years ago.

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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:31 pm
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I forgot to mention that it was like this when I bought it and I have been trying to resolve it. My understanding is grounding to the trem or bridge is quite dangerous because if there's a bad mains or outlet problem you can get japped really bad. Ever touch a microphone with your lips while playing your guitar and get a little jolt? Happened to me where there was improper grounding in the club. Not being part of the circuit is a good thing.

BobV


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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:42 pm
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What is the shielding grounded to? You might need to ground the shielding, or check that its grounded properly of its already grounded...I mean its just a thought...

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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:48 pm
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The shielding is grounded to the pots and controls plate.


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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:10 pm
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I don't know what it might be then, but if the pickguard screws didn't crackle before removing the ground from the trem claw, then moving ground most likely is causing the issue. I guess I can see while you would not want to get shocked, but every strat wiring diagram I have seen says to ground to bridge or trem claw. So think about how many strats that are out there that are grounded like this, and how many actual shock incidents from this type of grounding do you know actually have happened? I'm just saying if it was a major safety issue, I don't think all the hundreds of thousands of Fender/Squier Strats out there and the millions of Strat copies out there would keep doing the same grounding technique if people were getting injured. Unless you have heard specifically that MIM 2002 strats have a safety issue, I would just put it back and see if that helps solve your issues with buzz/hum.

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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:21 pm
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I just answered this question by you in another post, but after reading this one here is what I think.

You shielded the pickup cavity, did you shield the entire underneath of the pickguard? If you shield both the cavity and pickguard they should actually ground to each other by contact. Then with the pots grounded to the trem claw and to the pickguard by contact you should have a complete ground.

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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:27 pm
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Most guitar manufactures not only Fender do this. It's more of a manufacturer cost issue I believe from what I've read that this is done this way. Of course there are Fender, gibson and other manufactures that have models that do not ground to bridge and are well shielded and every one should consider removing ground from bridge or trem area's just for safty sake. Though there are not many insidences with electric shock there is always the potential for it to happen. This change does not effect your tone or anything it's just a safty percaution. Look into it. Back to my issue. I just found out that the scratchy noise does occur on some fenders or single coil pickups. I don't know why but one of the ways to reduce this is to shield the pickgaurd which I haven't done. So I'm going to try that and see how much it helps.

thanks for your help

BobV 8)


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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:36 pm
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Personally I do not recommend removing the ground from the bridge or trem claw. If you are getting shocked from your lips touching a microphone there were other grounding issues. I do not know of any guitars that did not have a ground wire to the bridge or trem claw.

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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:42 pm
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Chet, my point is that if there is a grounding problem you won't be a part of it if your guitar is not grounded to the pring claw or bridge and you won't get shocked. When your at the end of the circuit via holding the guitar strings you get shocked.

BobV


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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:58 pm
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BobV, What you are saying does not make sense. IF the Club where all of your equipment is plugged into is not properly grounded then the problem is going to effect everything that is plugged into the Club. Ungrounding a properly grounded guitar is not going to change that.
The same guitar grounding has been used on billions of guitars made since the 40's. If grounding to a bridge or trem claw was an issue and caused safety concerns it would have been changed a long time ago.

I still do not recommend ungrounding the bridge or trem claw.

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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:23 am
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CAFeathers wrote:
BobV, What you are saying does not make sense. IF the Club where all of your equipment is plugged into is not properly grounded then the problem is going to effect everything that is plugged into the Club. Ungrounding a properly grounded guitar is not going to change that.
The same guitar grounding has been used on billions of guitars made since the 40's. If grounding to a bridge or trem claw was an issue and caused safety concerns it would have been changed a long time ago.

I still do not recommend ungrounding the bridge or trem claw.


I'm glad someone else agrees with me on this. If its not broke, don't fix it. I mean there's a chance that if someone smokes in the backseat of my car that the seat might catch on fire and ignite the gas tank, but I'm not going to uninstall a functioning back seat to put in additional flame retardant material behind it just because there is a small percentage of a chance that my car may catch fire that way. Like I have stated previously, if it was a serious issue, the design would have been changed, and in this day and age of "If something happens to me, I'll tell it on the internet.", if getting shocked by your strat was a major issue we would see more posts about it...possibly a YouTube video showing it....

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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:25 am
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OK, I know what your saying but I myself have been shocked while playing in some clubs years ago. Let me give you an example of what I'm saying. Also this does not just pertain to Fender guitars and is more of a concern on older guitars as newer guitars are better shielded. For cost reasons some companies have not bothered to well shield the instrument and to compensate for this they run a ground wire to the bridge or in the case of a Strat the spring claw which connects to the bridge anyway via the springs. The bridge connects to the strings and guess who connects to the strings? yes you! you become the ground shield that some companies do not want to install. So how do we get shocks. Well, lets say your sound system is plugged into two-prong outlets, the plugs can go either way. If your guitar amp is plugged in so that the ground connects to the left prong, and mic's amp is plugged in so that the ground connects with the right prong of the power cord - you could be in trouble.This situation results in a reverse ground condition and if you hold the guitar neck and strings with one hand and grab the mic with the other hand you become part of a current carrying circuit and ZAP!!!

That's all I'm saying, it's just a safty percuation. I don't know of any special reason the ground has to go to a bridge or spring claw which is attached to the bridge via the srpings.

I'm no electronic geek believe me and I wish the electronic wizards step in here and correct me if i'm wrong.

Bobv 8)


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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:06 am
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BobV
I am not an expert, but I have learned guitar wiring and some electronics from:

My Brother who worked for Wayne Charvel building guitars in the late 70's/early 80's.
Bill Lawrence, who has been making guitar pickups for many years ( www.billlawrence.com ).
Another of my Brother's who has been a Radio tech for over 25 years.

Personally I have been modding guitars for 8 years.


You keep blaming the guitar for issues concerning amps, mics, mic's amps, sound systems, etc.

Let's look at this simply. If the grounding in a club you are playing in is not grounded correctly/faulty, ANYTHING you plug into that curcuit becomes unstable because you have plugged into a faulty curcuit. The ground curcuit is not complete. Ungrounding the guitar by disconnecting part of it's internal grounding you are adding to the instability and making that curcuit even more unstable.
Now, if a Club is still using 2 prong outlets as you refer to in your post they are seriously under code as 3 prong outlets have been in use and required for many years. Again you are blaming the guitar for improper wiring in the Club.

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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:59 am
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So your saying my senario is not possible? I appreciate your replies and educating me on this and your right I expect clubs to be up to code. I do have a question for you. Why does the ground have to go to the bridge of guitars and not ground another way? I get the same result having my ground wire to the spring claw as I do having it grounded to the shielding and am under the understanding that doing this helps keep me out of the current carrying circiut or am I doing it all wrong? I would very much appreciate your help in grounding my strat properly. I am going to shield the bottom of the pickgaurd this weekend and hope it resolves the scratchy noise problem. Thanks for your persistance in trying to help me understand this stuff better. I still don't think I'm completely wrong though. LOL

BobV


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