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Post subject: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Martian!
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:23 pm
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Thinking of putting some 57/62s in my MIM Strat and have a couple questions.

First, a lot of people seem to suggest replacing the electronics as well. What exactly would that involve and what specifically should I buy (pots, capacitors, and ???). Never done this before so I'd like to know exactly what to get so I can do it all at once (or more likely, have my bass player do it all at once while I watch and learn).

Second, I read a post where Martian said:

FWIW, I've been playing Strats since the 1960s and by choice, none of my Strats had/have humbuckers, even single slot jobs. Further and also by choice, I don't even want a RW/RP middle pickup! You will get infinitely more frequency response out of a single coil than that of a humbucker.

Just wondering what not having the RW/RP middle pickup does for you (besides not cancelling out the hum in positions 2 and 4).

Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:48 am
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Highline wrote:
Thinking of putting some 57/62s in my MIM Strat and have a couple questions.

First, a lot of people seem to suggest replacing the electronics as well. What exactly would that involve and what specifically should I buy (pots, capacitors, and ???). Never done this before so I'd like to know exactly what to get so I can do it all at once (or more likely, have my bass player do it all at once while I watch and learn).

Second, I read a post where Martian said:

FWIW, I've been playing Strats since the 1960s and by choice, none of my Strats had/have humbuckers, even single slot jobs. Further and also by choice, I don't even want a RW/RP middle pickup! You will get infinitely more frequency response out of a single coil than that of a humbucker.

Just wondering what not having the RW/RP middle pickup does for you (besides not cancelling out the hum in positions 2 and 4).

Thanks!


Greetings!

In your particular situation, not a lot of electronics have to be replaced; this is premising your MIM is 2006 or newer however. The only 'vital' part which should be replaced is the output jack with a Switchcraft one. The rest comes under the heading of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

My statement, "You will get infinitely more frequency response out of a single coil than that of a humbucker" applies to positions 2 and 4 as well. Additionally, setting the amp for a 3/5 non-humbucking guitar tends to add mud to the other 2/5ths. Namely, positions 2 and 4. Conversely, tweaking the amp to drop the mud in 'humbuckered' positions 2 and 4 would tend to make positions 1,3 and 5 a bit trebly/hissy. In other words, we are talking amp compromises here where the guitar as a whole will not be at it's tonal best. I feel the same way about Teles with a humbucker in the neck position.

As always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.

You're welcome. :D

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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:40 pm
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I recently installed 57/62's in my Chinese made Stat. The original pots were el cheapo 500k ohm units (actually measured around 475 k ohm). So I bought a Strat electronics kit with 250k ohm CTS pots, CRL 5-way switch, Switchcraft jack and .022uf Orange Drop cap. If you can read a wiring diagram and know how to solder it is not a difficult task to replace everything. While I had everything apart, I shielded the pickup cavity with copper foil. I also wired the bridge pickup to the mid tone control and added a switch to turn on the neck + bridge pickups. The result is a great sounding guitar with very minimal 60 cycle hum.


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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:39 pm
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I believe I share Martian's opinion as well. Hell none of my Strats even have a 5 way switch and I dont miss it, I feel I get the best out of single coils on their own.


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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:15 am
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Thanks everyone. I appreciate the advice. My MIM Strat is 2010, so you guys are saying it's good to keep the electronics as is?

And what's the value of NOT having a RW/RP pickup in the middle position?

And if there is a good value to that, should I avoid the RW/RP in the middle position and just put copper shielding in the cavity?

Are there any negatives to copper shielding?

Sorry for all the questions but I really appreciate your input!


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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:24 pm
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Highline wrote:
Thanks everyone. I appreciate the advice. My MIM Strat is 2010, so you guys are saying it's good to keep the electronics as is?


You're welcome.

Yes, except to replace the output jack.

Highline wrote:
And what's the value of NOT having a RW/RP pickup in the middle position?


Consistency in terms of hum vs. humbucking where the amp can be set more exactingly.

Highline wrote:
And if there is a good value to that, should I avoid the RW/RP in the middle position and just put copper shielding in the cavity?


Yes.

Shielding would be useless as most of the hum from a single coil pickup(s) guitar is introduced through and generated from, the pickups themselves which typically do not get shielded. At best, the hum might slightly diminish due to the answer to your next question.

Highline wrote:
Are there any negatives to copper shielding?


Yes. shielding raises capacitance. This in turn, reduces high end frequencies and volume of the overall circuit and is superfluous in terms of killing any of the pickups' inherent hum (per my above statement).

Highline wrote:
Sorry for all the questions but I really appreciate your input!


No problem and again, you're welcome.

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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:35 pm
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Martian, you're the man! :mrgreen: (even used a green guy, you know, a Martian!)

And just so I'm clear, my last question (maybe) on this subject is what's wrong with the output jack--is it likely to break or will a new one somehow positively effect my tone?


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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:40 am
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Highline wrote:
Martian, you're the man! :mrgreen: (even used a green guy, you know, a Martian!)

And just so I'm clear, my last question (maybe) on this subject is what's wrong with the output jack--is it likely to break or will a new one somehow positively effect my tone?


That's what they pay me the big money for... NOT! :lol:

With just ordinary use, the inferior construction and materiel of the jack has the opposite terminals loosening in their framework, spinning around to the point of touching each other and breaking the lead wire(s) in the process. Of course, chronic shorting will be symptomatic. Oftentimes, the jack is slightly undersized per standards. Oftentimes too, the nut which holds it to the cup is made out of lead which can compress, deform and ultimately, crack, causing the jack to chronically loosen and when one attempts to retighten it, this is when the negative terminal usually spins along with it, shorting against the positive one. The metal prong (+) of this type jack tends to fatigue rather easily too, causing the amp cable to fall out. Tone is the least of your problems thus far however where once again, the quality of the metal used is not as 'pure' by standards and so, a slight signal loss akin to the aforementioned shielding capacitance may present itself. Aside from all the above, there's nothing wrong with the OEM jack. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Some players of course, will say, "I've had the OEM jack for 'X' years and I've never had a problem with it." I maintain, give it time! An investment of $3 to $4 (the typical cost of a Switchcraft jack) buys security for a lifetime.

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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:09 am
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Martian, I respect your comments on this forum as you seem to have incredible knowledge of Strat electronics. Could you please explain how shielding affects capacitance and thus tone? There are a lot of internet sites extolling the virtues of shielding; including this forum. I shielded my guitar some time ago based reading on these comments. I did experience a decrease in hum, not that there was all that much to begin with. I did not notice any change in guitar tone. Then again, my ears have been around shooting ranges for around 30 years and I work in the gas turbine engine business. So my hearing may not be as acute as some folks. Also, I tend to like warmer guitars. Perhaps that explains my satisfaction with my current setup.


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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:40 am
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Thanks again, Martian. I'm out of questions for a little while, though I'm eager to see what you say about the question from Ras.

Cheers!


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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:05 am
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ras1500 wrote:
Martian, I respect your comments on this forum as you seem to have incredible knowledge of Strat electronics. Could you please explain how shielding affects capacitance and thus tone? There are a lot of internet sites extolling the virtues of shielding; including this forum. I shielded my guitar some time ago based reading on these comments. I did experience a decrease in hum, not that there was all that much to begin with. I did not notice any change in guitar tone. Then again, my ears have been around shooting ranges for around 30 years and I work in the gas turbine engine business. So my hearing may not be as acute as some folks. Also, I tend to like warmer guitars. Perhaps that explains my satisfaction with my current setup.


Well, thank you!

I'll give you a brief, yet common parallel example (in layman's terms): I'm sure you've read and maybe even witnessed for yourself the how and why with superior cables, the benefits of their oxygen free copper stranded cable, gold or even platinum tips, etc. are best to get the electrical signal as faithfully out of the guitar and into the amp to where it is heard as possible. Conversely, inferior cables with 'eh' quality copper mated with possibly even nickel tips affect the tonality and oftentimes, volume of a guitar through an amp. The reason being, extra capacitance and resistance is peppered into the guitar's signal as well through these less efficient conductor metals of the inferior cables. Consequently, the guitar's signal is not as pure as it can be when it ultimately gets heard out of the amp. In other words, the signal is being suppressed both in terms of frequency response (the range of tonality) and volume to varying degrees. The same impediments applies with shielding which as you've stated yourself, may or may not be a dramatic difference. Worth noting is the fact that the more metal, be it good or bad that a signal has to travel through before being heard through the amp will eventually begin weakening (degrading) the signal too. Another quick analogy: Even if a super-duper, premium cable is used, with high impedance pickups (meaning, passive, not pre-amped, such as our's), signal loss begins to happen after around, say, 17 feet. So, unless there is a booster in line somewhere, the greater the distance the signal has to travel, the less faithful to it's original self its going to be by the time it gets to the amp. Consider the mass of the copper foil as a substitute for this lengthy traveling distance.

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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:01 pm
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Highline wrote:
Thanks again, Martian. I'm out of questions for a little while, though I'm eager to see what you say about the question from Ras.

Cheers!


You're quite welcome and thank you too!

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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:01 am
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Martian...thanks for the reply. The next time I have the pick guard off, I may remove the shielding to see if it makes a difference.


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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:05 am
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ras1500 wrote:
Martian...thanks for the reply. The next time I have the pick guard off, I may remove the shielding to see if it makes a difference.


As always, you're quite welcome.

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Post subject: Re: Putting 57/62 Pickups in MIM Strat and Question for Mart
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:47 pm
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Hi Martian,I am in the process of completing the same project,I have a vast array of capacitors from old radios,some that are used in guitars,if I was trying to duplicate a vintage sound would there be any type of capacitors that would give the sound an edge or is this overblown as just a theory...I am a schematic guy,better with visual than free thinking...LOL


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