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Post subject: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric pot?
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:04 pm
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Roadie
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Using a standard tele 3-way switch, 1 volume control, and getting separate tone control for each pickup is my goal, without adding a third knob to the pickguard.

I've done several searches on google already regarding a concentric pot solution and keep getting results where people took a guess on how this schematic would look. Does anyone out there have knowledge on how to exactly go about this setup?

Thanks for any help!


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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:56 pm
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Rock Star
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warmachine wrote:
Using a standard tele 3-way switch, 1 volume control, and getting separate tone control for each pickup is my goal, without adding a third knob to the pickguard.

I've done several searches on google already regarding a concentric pot solution and keep getting results where people took a guess on how this schematic would look. Does anyone out there have knowledge on how to exactly go about this setup?

Thanks for any help!


I can help you.

With the concentric pot's shaft facing the floor, here are the three terminals of the upper pot and the lower pot:
--0
--0
--0
-------
--0
--0
--0

For convenience, we'll number them:
#1. --0
#2. --0
#3. --0
----------
#4. --0
#5. --0
#6. --0

I shall presume the upper pot will be for the neck pickup with the lower one (of course) for the bridge pickup.

On the upper pot:

Solder one leg of a .022uf or .047uf capacitor to terminal #1 with the capacitor's other leg being grounded to the side of the pot itself.

Solder a wire to terminal #2 and then to the neck pickup's lead on the pickup selector switch.

Terminal #3 is not used.

On the lower pot:

Solder a wire from terminal #4 to the bridge pickup's lead on the pickup selector switch.

Solder a wire from terminal #5 to terminal #1 on the upper pot (the one with the capacitor).

Terminal #6 is not used.

That's it!

Bear in mid though that as long as both pickups are on together, either tone pot will affect both pickups. Further, isolating the tone pots so this won't happen cannot be done without additional electronic components.

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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:22 pm
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Roadie
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 205
Martian wrote:
warmachine wrote:
Using a standard tele 3-way switch, 1 volume control, and getting separate tone control for each pickup is my goal, without adding a third knob to the pickguard.

I've done several searches on google already regarding a concentric pot solution and keep getting results where people took a guess on how this schematic would look. Does anyone out there have knowledge on how to exactly go about this setup?

Thanks for any help!


Bear in mid though that as long as both pickups are on together, either tone pot will affect both pickups. Further, isolating the tone pots so this won't happen cannot be done without additional electronic components.


So you're saying that when I'm in the middle position, I can then use the neck and bridge tone pots to dial in my sound?


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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:00 pm
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Rock Star
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Location: Mars, the angry red planet.
warmachine wrote:
Martian wrote:
warmachine wrote:
Using a standard tele 3-way switch, 1 volume control, and getting separate tone control for each pickup is my goal, without adding a third knob to the pickguard.

I've done several searches on google already regarding a concentric pot solution and keep getting results where people took a guess on how this schematic would look. Does anyone out there have knowledge on how to exactly go about this setup?

Thanks for any help!


Bear in mid though that as long as both pickups are on together, either tone pot will affect both pickups. Further, isolating the tone pots so this won't happen cannot be done without additional electronic components.


So you're saying that when I'm in the middle position, I can then use the neck and bridge tone pots to dial in my sound?


Yes.

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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:24 pm
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Roadie
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Martian wrote:
Yes.



Salesman wanted to sell me this at the guitar shop but didnt seem quite 100% that it was what I really needed. What's you're take?

Description says:
Stacked Concentric audio taper Pot, 250K/250K, with center detent.

http://www.allparts.com/250K-and-250K-Concentric-Pot-p/ep-4485-000.htm


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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:02 pm
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Rock Star
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warmachine wrote:
Martian wrote:
Yes.



Salesman wanted to sell me this at the guitar shop but didnt seem quite 100% that it was what I really needed. What's you're take?

Description says:
Stacked Concentric audio taper Pot, 250K/250K, with center detent.

http://www.allparts.com/250K-and-250K-Concentric-Pot-p/ep-4485-000.htm


"Center detent" leads me to believe it a blend pot which you don't want because the taper of one pot would be the opposite of the other. To be safe, I would use:

http://www.darrenriley.com/shop/cart.ph ... ail&p=1102

Here's the mating knob set:
www.darrenriley.com/shop/cart.php?m=pro ... ail&p=1831

Don't worry about one of those pots being 500K. In your particular situation and for all intents and purposes, all it means is that you'd have to dial it down slightly more than you would a 250K to achieve the desired result. If it does bother you, you could always solder a 470K resistor (last I checked, 2 for 99 cents at Radio Shack) across the pot's outer terminals, thus making it (virtually) a 250K pot.

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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:39 am
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Roadie
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 205
Hi. Just wanted to show some pre-solder pics of my harness to double check I got things as outlined as in your instructions. The tan capacitor is supposed to represent the treble bleed and of course my wiring has not been trimmed to length yet and all grounds will eventually go to pot casing.

Not sure about my outer two lugs of my volume pot...ah :? ...I need your expertise.

What I got...
Concentric Tone Pot lugs:
#1. -- leg of .047 capacitor (other leg goes to side of pot casing)
#2. -- black wire to Neck pickup lead of switch
#3. -- nothing
----------
#4. -- yellow wire to Bridge pickup lead of switch
#5. -- small white wire to terminal #1 where .047 capacitor soldered
#6. -- nothing

Volume Pot lugs:
#1. -- leg of .001 treble bleed capacitor
#2. -- other leg of treble bleed capacitor, white wire to hot of output jack
#3. -- ?

Image


Last edited by warmachine on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:07 am
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Rock Star
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warmachine wrote:
Hi. Just wanted to show some pre-solder pics of my harness to double check I got things as outlined as in your instructions. The tan capacitor is supposed to represent the treble bleed and of course my wiring has not been trimmed to length yet and all grounds will eventually go to pot casing.

Not sure about my outer two lugs of my volume pot...ah :? ...I need your expertise.

What I got...
Concentric Tone Pot lugs:
#1. -- leg of .047 capacitor (other leg goes to side of pot casing)
#2. -- black wire to Neck pickup lead of switch
#3. -- nothing
----------
#4. -- yellow wire to Bridge pickup lead of switch
#5. -- small white wire to terminal #1 where .047 capacitor soldered
#6. -- nothing

Volume Pot lugs:
#1. -- leg of .001 treble bleed capacitor
#2. -- other leg of treble bleed capacitor, white wire to hot of output jack
#3. -- ?

Image
Image


A few adjustments: With the concentric pot, we shall agree that the shafts of the pot are facing downward and terminal #1 is now on the top left as you look at the now turned over pot with the terminals closest to us.

The now showing upper terminals portion of the concentric pot are in reality what will be for the lower pot of the concentric. We shall use this lower half for the bridge's tone control.

#1 should be to nothing.
#2 should be to #4 of the other half of the pot.
#3 should be to the bridge pickup lead of the selector switch.

We shall now use this upper half for the neck's tone control.

#4 in addition to #2 above should have one tail of the .047 cap soldered to it with the other tail soldered to ground.
#5 should be to the neck pickup lead of the selector switch.
#6 should be to nothing.

Onto the volume pot. Here too, we shall agree that the shaft of the pot is facing downward and terminal #1 is now on the left as you look at the now turned over pot with the terminals closest to us:

#1 In addition to one tail of the treble bleed cap, this should also have the hot wire coming from the pickup selector switch.
#2 is correct.
#3 should be grounded to the casing of the pot

Don't forget to ground the bridge, the pickups and the output jack.

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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:51 pm
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Roadie
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 205
Martian wrote:

A few adjustments: With the concentric pot, we shall agree that the shafts of the pot are facing downward and terminal #1 is now on the top left as you look at the now turned over pot with the terminals closest to us.

The now showing upper terminals portion of the concentric pot are in reality what will be for the lower pot of the concentric. We shall use this lower half for the bridge's tone control.

#1 should be to nothing.
#2 should be to #4 of the other half of the pot.
#3 should be to the bridge pickup lead of the selector switch.

We shall now use this upper half for the neck's tone control.

#4 in addition to #2 above should have one tail of the .047 cap soldered to it with the other tail soldered to ground.
#5 should be to the neck pickup lead of the selector switch.
#6 should be to nothing.

Onto the volume pot. Here too, we shall agree that the shaft of the pot is facing downward and terminal #1 is now on the left as you look at the now turned over pot with the terminals closest to us:

#1 In addition to one tail of the treble bleed cap, this should also have the hot wire coming from the pickup selector switch.
#2 is correct.
#3 should be grounded to the casing of the pot

Don't forget to ground the bridge, the pickups and the output jack.


Ah! I think this pic shows your setup now.

#2 and #4 connected with little white wire
#2 capacitor leg (with other leg to pot casing on side)
#3 yellow wire to bridge pup
#5 black wire to neck pup

Volume pot
red wire = to pickup selector switch,
white wire = hot of output jack
ground buss wire = to pickup casing

Image


Last edited by warmachine on Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:10 pm
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Rock Star
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Location: Mars, the angry red planet.
warmachine wrote:
Ah! I think this pic shows your setup now.

#2 and #4 connected with little white wire
#2 capacitor leg (with other leg to pot casing on side)
#3 yellow wire to bridge pup
#4 black wire to neck pup

Volume pot
red wire = to pickup selector switch,
white wire = hot of output jack
ground buss wire = to pickup casing

Image


"By George, I think he's got it!"

Heat that soldering iron up and get to work!!

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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:40 pm
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Roadie
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 205
Martian wrote:

"By George, I think he's got it!"

Heat that soldering iron up and get to work!!


I rigged it together today but I generate hum anytime I touch the bridge, output jack, pots, or pickups. I extended the buss wire to the tone pot casing trying to get everything grounded better, but to no avail. Can you spot my error(s)?

Image


Last edited by warmachine on Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:04 pm
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Rock Star
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:33 am
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Location: Mars, the angry red planet.
warmachine wrote:
I rigged it together today but I generate hum anytime I touch the bridge, output jack, pots, or pickups. I extended the buss wire to the tone pot casing trying to get everything grounded better, but to no avail. Can you spot my error(s)?


From your pictures, no. However, check that your ground and hot wires to the output jack aren't reversed at its terminals. Specifically, what pickups are you using?

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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:09 pm
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Roadie
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 205
Martian wrote:
warmachine wrote:
I rigged it together today but I generate hum anytime I touch the bridge, output jack, pots, or pickups. I extended the buss wire to the tone pot casing trying to get everything grounded better, but to no avail. Can you spot my error(s)?


From your pictures, no. However, check that your ground and hot wires to the output jack aren't reversed at its terminals. Specifically, what pickups are you using?


They are Duncan Designed stock pickups. 2 wires, black to ground and white to selector switch. I'll pull output jack and double check.


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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:46 pm
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Roadie
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 205
Martian wrote:
From your pictures, no. However, check that your ground and hot wires to the output jack aren't reversed at its terminals. Specifically, what pickups are you using?


I got the black soldered to the sleeve of the output jack and yellow to hot. All I can think is I maybe overheated switch or something.

Anyhow to clarify the pic I labeled.
Image


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Post subject: Re: Making a 2 tone control Telecaster using a concentric po
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:09 pm
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Roadie
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 205
SKcoppertele wrote:
That is one funkey lookin cap.all metal??? :?


Yeah. Paper in oil style capacitor. I think this type is seen frequently in older Gibsons.


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