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Post subject: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:05 am
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Okay, ive got myself an entirely new stock Fender setup for my Squire STRAT, I got the Vintage Noiseless Pickups, cloth covered wiring, CTS 250k pots all round, stock cap (Everything but the woods and tuning machines is brand new.. and wired it with a Deaf Eddy "Stock Strat" schematic.. and the guitar sounds sweet!

BUT
I have a problem with it, it keeps making a noise which is muffled only by touching the metal parts, even then its noticable, the interferance is much louder than my brand new MIM Fat Strat. I need help killing this sound please! :(


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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:27 am
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Umbra wrote:
Okay, ive got myself an entirely new stock Fender setup for my Squire STRAT, I got the Vintage Noiseless Pickups, cloth covered wiring, CTS 250k pots all round, stock cap (Everything but the woods and tuning machines is brand new.. and wired it with a Deaf Eddy "Stock Strat" schematic.. and the guitar sounds sweet!

BUT
I have a problem with it, it keeps making a noise which is muffled only by touching the metal parts, even then its noticable, the interferance is much louder than my brand new MIM Fat Strat. I need help killing this sound please! :(


Okay, welcome.

Okay, before someone suggests it, shielding will only partially mask the symptom, treat the cause instead.

Okay, sight unseen, you evidently have a ground problem in there somewhere. Recheck your wiring as it could be anywhere. Of note too is the fact that VN Pickups are extremely frail by design. Consequently, it could be originating from one of your pickups as well. If you want to post a few pictures, maybe one of us can spot the defect right away.

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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:15 am
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Thanks, I've just taken these photos after swapping the pickgaurd with its old loaded one, no difference from what I can tell... the soldering on the earth at the middle pot is very messy now, but it has stuck...

http://imgur.com/a/rKS6B#WOHHX


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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:42 am
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Umbra wrote:
Thanks, I've just taken these photos after swapping the pickgaurd with its old loaded one, no difference from what I can tell... the soldering on the earth at the middle pot is very messy now, but it has stuck...

http://imgur.com/a/rKS6B#WOHHX


PLEASE do not take offense to what I have to say as I surely mean none.

You have many cold solder joints and straying wires at terminals. Some of the terminals don't even appear to have the wires attached at all. Further, there is the possibility of burned internals of one or more of the pots. You might want to consider having the guitar rewired by a pro.

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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:50 am
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Martian wrote:
Umbra wrote:
Thanks, I've just taken these photos after swapping the pickgaurd with its old loaded one, no difference from what I can tell... the soldering on the earth at the middle pot is very messy now, but it has stuck...

http://imgur.com/a/rKS6B#WOHHX


PLEASE do not take offense to what I have to say as I surely mean none.

You have many cold solder joints and straying wires at terminals. Some of the terminals don't even appear to have the wires attached at all. Further, there is the possibility of burned internals of one or more of the pots. You might want to consider having the guitar rewired by a pro.


Dammit!!

I knew my dodgy soldering would be the problem...

It's my first time wiring anything but speaker cables. :lol:

I think I know someone who might do it for free..., or I could take it to the store I bought the Squire at, they are a reasonable people.

Anyway, thanks Martian
Ill let you know how I get on... when I get it sorted!


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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:57 am
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Umbra wrote:
Dammit!!

I knew my dodgy soldering would be the problem...

It's my first time wiring anything but speaker cables. :lol:

I think I know someone who might do it for free..., or I could take it to the store I bought the Squire at, they are a reasonable people.

Anyway, thanks Martian
Ill let you know how I get on... when I get it sorted!


You're welcome and yes, please let me know.

Good luck!

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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:52 pm
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Most likely the cause of the noise is the fact that the body cavity of your guitar isn't screened, so the wiring is picking up interference from your body. When you touch the metal parts of your guitar, you're effectively grounded and that's why the interference disappears.

The common methods of screening the cavity are to use conductive paint or copper foil. Whichever you choose you need to make sure it's connected to the screen on the back of the pick guard. Lots of help out there in webland...

Done this mod to both my Strats: a MIM Standard and my 2011 CS Custom Deluxe (surprised that the CS wasn't screened as standard - my Tele USA Deluxe is).

HTH


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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:03 am
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stiggie_9 wrote:
Most likely the cause of the noise is the fact that the body cavity of your guitar isn't screened, so the wiring is picking up interference from your body. When you touch the metal parts of your guitar, you're effectively grounded and that's why the interference disappears.

The common methods of screening the cavity are to use conductive paint or copper foil. Whichever you choose you need to make sure it's connected to the screen on the back of the pick guard. Lots of help out there in webland...

Done this mod to both my Strats: a MIM Standard and my 2011 CS Custom Deluxe (surprised that the CS wasn't screened as standard - my Tele USA Deluxe is).

HTH

Well, the guitar is getting rewired by a capable guy this time next week, however, as it is my ONLY guitar body without the cavity screening/shielding I will at some point in the future get some conductive paint and get the inside coated
Best to do both the protection and re-wiring I think.

Although I hate to be a bother..

Really now, my main issue is with its bridge positioning.I want it further from the nut.

Not just me though, it's previous bridge was barely intonated with it's low E RIGHT back as far as it would go, so even the intonation wants it moved! Even though the back bow on the neck is now minimal and I've added a small amount of shim to bring it as parallel with the body as it needed to be (giving more total scale length).
I would rather either get the bridge pulled a few millimetres back without revealing the older tremolo screws however this is somewhat labour intensive for me..
So ,guessing they would put the tremolo in the right place, (unlike the Squire factory) I might just get a nice new Warmoth body for it...
what does everyone think?


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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:39 am
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Umbra wrote:
Well, the guitar is getting rewired by a capable guy this time next week, however, as it is my ONLY guitar body without the cavity screening/shielding I will at some point in the future get some conductive paint and get the inside coated
Best to do both the protection and re-wiring I think.

Although I hate to be a bother..

Really now, my main issue is with its bridge positioning.I want it further from the nut.

Not just me though, it's previous bridge was barely intonated with it's low E RIGHT back as far as it would go, so even the intonation wants it moved! Even though the back bow on the neck is now minimal and I've added a small amount of shim to bring it as parallel with the body as it needed to be (giving more total scale length).
I would rather either get the bridge pulled a few millimetres back without revealing the older tremolo screws however this is somewhat labour intensive for me..
So ,guessing they would put the tremolo in the right place, (unlike the Squire factory) I might just get a nice new Warmoth body for it...
what does everyone think?


Full body shielding is virtually useless with humbuckers.

Neck bolt wise, Squier necks mate with their bodies approximately 2/16ths lower on the body than that of outright Fenders, be they MIAs or MIMs. For the money you'd pay for the Warmoth body, you're better off buying an entire MIM Fender guitar.

As always, the above is merely IMO where YMMV.

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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:49 am
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Umbra wrote:
stiggie_9 wrote:
Most likely the cause of the noise is the fact that the body cavity of your guitar isn't screened, so the wiring is picking up interference from your body. When you touch the metal parts of your guitar, you're effectively grounded and that's why the interference disappears.

The common methods of screening the cavity are to use conductive paint or copper foil. Whichever you choose you need to make sure it's connected to the screen on the back of the pick guard. Lots of help out there in webland...

Done this mod to both my Strats: a MIM Standard and my 2011 CS Custom Deluxe (surprised that the CS wasn't screened as standard - my Tele USA Deluxe is).

HTH


Well, the guitar is getting rewired by a capable guy this time next week, however, as it is my ONLY guitar body without the cavity screening/shielding I will at some point in the future get some conductive paint and get the inside coated
Best to do both the protection and re-wiring I think.

Although I hate to be a bother..

Really now, my main issue is with its bridge positioning.I want it further from the nut.

Not just me though, it's previous bridge was barely intonated with it's low E RIGHT back as far as it would go, so even the intonation wants it moved! Even though the back bow on the neck is now minimal and I've added a small amount of shim to bring it as parallel with the body as it needed to be (giving more total scale length).
I would rather either get the bridge pulled a few millimetres back without revealing the older tremolo screws however this is somewhat labour intensive for me..
So ,guessing they would put the tremolo in the right place, (unlike the Squire factory) I might just get a nice new Warmoth body for it...
what does everyone think?


Thanks for the informantion.

I am inclined to agree with you.

I mean, I would only end up buying the body and neck at Warmoth or at the very least try and get a deal for an original outright Fender neck on Ebay. Living in the UK this would be fairly costly, as you say, ending up as much as a MIM guitar! I do like the MIM I own a-lot!
And long-term I do plan on eventually buying a Telecaster and likely a P-Bass both MIM standard or maybe FSR.

It makes sense, I could easily get the pickups swapped with the full single coil MIM Fender.. I feel a new guitar would better do justice to the pickups and the Squire could use the MIM Standard ones.

Either way I'm not buying anything like that soon, as I don't have the funds, and need to concentrate on other things.


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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:45 am
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Used the wrong quote there! sorry.

I was agreeing with Martian.


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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:00 pm
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Quote:
Full body shielding is virtually useless with humbuckers.


Not really - it's not the pickups that are, er, picking up the interference, it's the wiring betwwen them and the switch/pots/output socket. Fender uses un-screened wire, and that's the problem. Yes, Noiseless pups (which are effectively humbuckers) will definitely reduce the problem, but you'll only completely remove the noise if the body itself is screened as well.

I fitted Vintage Noiseless pickups to my MIM Strat and there was still interference when I wasn't touching the strings. Screened the body and it sorted it, no problem.


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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:15 pm
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stiggie_9 wrote:
Quote:
Full body shielding is virtually useless with humbuckers.


Not really - it's not the pickups that are, er, picking up the interference, it's the wiring betwwen them and the switch/pots/output socket. Fender uses un-screened wire, and that's the problem. Yes, Noiseless pups (which are effectively humbuckers) will definitely reduce the problem, but you'll only completely remove the noise if the body itself is screened as well.

I fitted Vintage Noiseless pickups to my MIM Strat and there was still interference when I wasn't touching the strings. Screened the body and it sorted it, no problem.


If the pickguard is shielded, that really is enough for those non-insulated wires. The biggest culprit which 'picks up' line noise are the polepieces which NEVER get shielded. Granted, you'll suppress more perceived hum by total shielding but what's really going on is resistance and capacitance gets ramped up thereby diminishing the frequency response and volume of the pickups. In other words, all this shielding is in effect, lowering the volume and high end capacity of the pickups which of course, will result in less audible hum, regardless of the type of pickups. Let us agree to disagree on this one.

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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:41 am
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So, now that she's been re-wired by a pro, as suggested by Martian! (thank-you!)
She sounds much more normal. Not to mention the action and intonation are finally coming together!
My favourite guitar to play DESPITE having a bad nut that should be replaced soon. I have Fender blanks already.
All in all this has been a great success and I know what I need to do to greatly improve my soldering (new tools, techniques and practice!)

Thanks for the help guys!


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Post subject: Re: Problem with V Noiseless in a Squier Strat
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:45 am
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Umbra wrote:
So, now that she's been re-wired by a pro, as suggested by Martian! (thank-you!)
She sounds much more normal. Not to mention the action and intonation are finally coming together!
My favourite guitar to play DESPITE having a bad nut that should be replaced soon. I have Fender blanks already.
All in all this has been a great success and I know what I need to do to greatly improve my soldering (new tools, techniques and practice!)

Thanks for the help guys!


Anytime and enjoy!

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