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Post subject: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:26 pm
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Martian, just wondering how Fat 50's compare to your Fratocaster pickup combo (SSL-2 neck, SSL-6 middle, and SSL-3 bridge).. I haven't bought pickups for my project Strat so I thought I'd ask... Per previous posts, my project Strat is kinda my Dick Dale tribute Strat -- low cost alternative to the custom shop Dick Dale Strat. I'm not opposed to rethinking the Fat 50's I originally decided on... As long as one pickup is suitable for surf stuff (which seems to be more dependent on amp and reverb than pickups), I don't mind having other options available sound-wise via the other pickups.


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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:31 am
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oldguy101 wrote:
Martian, just wondering how Fat 50's compare to your Fratocaster pickup combo (SSL-2 neck, SSL-6 middle, and SSL-3 bridge).. I haven't bought pickups for my project Strat so I thought I'd ask... Per previous posts, my project Strat is kinda my Dick Dale tribute Strat -- low cost alternative to the custom shop Dick Dale Strat. I'm not opposed to rethinking the Fat 50's I originally decided on... As long as one pickup is suitable for surf stuff (which seems to be more dependent on amp and reverb than pickups), I don't mind having other options available sound-wise via the other pickups.


Actually, you've hit the nail on the head with your evaluation of surf stuff being more amp and reverb dependent rather than pickup choice(s).

To answer your question:

Keep in mind with my explanations that all three of my chosen pickups have equal height or flat polepieces so I have better string separation, expanded frequency response and balanced string output over any of Fender's Custom Shop offerings.

The SSL-2 would be the closest to the Fat 50s but with a tad less midrange. There is a healthier distribution of all the right frequencies which make up a vintage type Strat pickup rather than just focusing on the one.

The SSL-6 is essentially a high output version of the SSL-2 with more of everything.

The SSL-3 is the most powerful of the three with more of everything than the SSL-6. It goes into hot P-90 area.

As you can see, I start out with a basic yet superior Strat tonality and have the ability to keep ramping it up literally notch by notch depending on my requirements at any given moment. Of note too is the fact that I can 'cool down' the SSL-6 and/or SSL-3 by simply backing off the volume. And again, because the polepieces are level, frequency response doesn't start to choke because of the reduced volume.

Duncan has a 21 day exchange policy. Try my combo and if there's something you don't like, you can always exchange one, two or all three of them.

FYI: Duncan's APS-1 Strat pickup is the closest to Fender's Fat 50s with the APS-1 being slightly sweeter, midrange wise. Duncan also makes an APS-2 which is the same thing as the APS-1 but with flat polepieces.

I hope at least some of the above helped.

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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:36 am
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Thanks! That's exactly what I needed to know about the Fratocaster SD pickups. That combo sounds like what I want...


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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:48 am
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oldguy101 wrote:
Thanks! That's exactly what I needed to know about the Fratocaster SD pickups. That combo sounds like what I want...


You're quite welcome and I doubt very strongly you'll be disappointed!

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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:57 pm
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Okay, Martian, another question -- If I want to go with an HSS setup instead of SSS, what would be a good choice for a humbucker alternative to the SSL-3 single coil? I checked the specs on the SD site and it looks like either the SH-14 Custom 5 or the SH-4 JB might be reasonable. Those two seem to be similar to the SSL-3 spec-wise (DC resistance was the main thing I checked). Listening to the sound clips, I kinda prefered the SH-14...


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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:12 pm
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oldguy101 wrote:
Okay, Martian, another question -- If I want to go with an HSS setup instead of SSS, what would be a good choice for a humbucker alternative to the SSL-3 single coil? I checked the specs on the SD site and it looks like either the SH-14 Custom 5 or the SH-4 JB might be reasonable. Those two seem to be similar to the SSL-3 spec-wise (DC resistance was the main thing I checked). Listening to the sound clips, I kinda prefered the SH-14...


The JB has no bass and an upper midrange spike. The Custom 5 has no midrange and excessive bass. If it were me, I'd go with a Pearly Gates (SH-PG1b or TBPG-1b, depending on the spacing of your bridge); NOT the Pearly Gates Plus, mind you. Regardless, with a full sized HB, you'd have to change at least your volume pot to a 500K one for best tonal results and then, you'd have to wire two additional resistors into the circuit in order to continue your single coils operating at best tonal results. And then there's the output differential of a full sized HB to be reckoned with.

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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:28 pm
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Martian wrote:
oldguy101 wrote:
Okay, Martian, another question -- If I want to go with an HSS setup instead of SSS, what would be a good choice for a humbucker alternative to the SSL-3 single coil? I checked the specs on the SD site and it looks like either the SH-14 Custom 5 or the SH-4 JB might be reasonable. Those two seem to be similar to the SSL-3 spec-wise (DC resistance was the main thing I checked). Listening to the sound clips, I kinda prefered the SH-14...


The JB has no bass and an upper midrange spike. The Custom 5 has no midrange and excessive bass. If it were me, I'd go with a Pearly Gates (SH-PG1b or TBPG-1b, depending on the spacing of your bridge); NOT the Pearly Gates Plus, mind you. Regardless, with a full sized HB, you'd have to change at least your volume pot to a 500K one for best tonal results and then, you'd have to wire two additional resistors into the circuit in order to continue your single coils operating at best tonal results. And then there's the output differential of a full sized HB to be reckoned with.


Oh, sounds like HSS isn't a good idea... I don't mind the volume pot and resistors issue but the output differential seems problematical... Is there a way to determine the output differential from the specs for a pickup? Is the differential an issue mainly when you use the bridge+middle switch position or, is the issue more that the volume change is significant when you switch to the humbucker? I'm a guitar novice but I do notice that I don't use the combined pickups switch settings very much...


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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:55 am
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oldguy101 wrote:
...Is there a way to determine the output differential from the specs for a pickup? Is the differential an issue mainly when you use the bridge+middle switch position or, is the issue more that the volume change is significant when you switch to the humbucker? I'm a guitar novice but I do notice that I don't use the combined pickups switch settings very much...


Yes, output is determined by millivolts, not DC resistance as DC resistance is only an integer in the equation. Yet for some reason or other, most players steadfastly and erroneously cling to DC resistance as the standard for measuring a pickup's output power. Oftentimes, DC resistance MAY be a clue but oftentimes, it surely is not.

In a direct answer to your question, a typical humbucker (HB) wired for full power usually dwarfs that of a typical single coil (SC) when selected separately or combined with a SC. Having said this, on face value, most even modest output double coil pickups wired in series (as is the norm for a HB) will loosely speaking, be twice as loud as a 'standard' SC. As is obvious, there is the power of the two 'back-to-back' SCs vs. the one. Many players love this boost for soloing and that's why H/S/S combo guitars exist. Conversely, others don't; clearly, it is totally up to the individual player. And then there's having both ways: A HB can be wired so that at the throw of a switch, its power can be cut down, thus making each coil 'side by side' rather than 'back to back' which subordinates itself output wise as a SC. Then, there is yet another option where one coil of the HB can literally be shut off thereby literally making said HB a SC. And then there's the aesthetic issues but here too which of course, is all on the perception of the instrument's owner.

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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:15 pm
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Thanks, Martian -- I appreciate your insights! While the humbucker provides a lot of options, I'm goin' SSS. I did a little research and, yeah, DC resistance is one factor but it sounds like many characteristics are involved in the output and tone of a pickup. In regard to HSS vs. SSS, I'm building a Dick Dale kinda tribute Strat so SSS is appropriate for this one...


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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:05 pm
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oldguy101 wrote:
Thanks, Martian -- I appreciate your insights! While the humbucker provides a lot of options, I'm goin' SSS. I did a little research and, yeah, DC resistance is one factor but it sounds like many characteristics are involved in the output and tone of a pickup. In regard to HSS vs. SSS, I'm building a Dick Dale kinda tribute Strat so SSS is appropriate for this one...


You're quite welcome.

I'm glad you're going with all singles. I know I could be stirring up a sh!tstorm here but I truly believe a major part of a Strat's identity, both sonically and aesthetically is with 3 single coil pickups.

All the best with your build and if you need any more help, please don't hesitate to ask!

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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:06 pm
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Martian wrote:
I know I could be stirring up a sh!tstorm here but I truly believe a major part of a Strat's identity, both sonically and aesthetically is with 3 single coil pickups.


+1!

Pass me the spatula when you're done.

:lol:

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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:26 pm
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Martian wrote:
I'm glad you're going with all singles. I know I could be stirring up a sh!tstorm here but I truly believe a major part of a Strat's identity, both sonically and aesthetically is with 3 single coil pickups.


Martian mentions "aesthetics" and here I was talking about putting an HSS setup in an orange sparkle Strat using an anodized gold pickguard.... :oops: Heck, now I'm even rethinking the pickguard choice... maybe white would be a better choice with a set of white Fratocaster SD pickups...


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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:37 am
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oldguy101 wrote:
Martian wrote:
I'm glad you're going with all singles. I know I could be stirring up a sh!tstorm here but I truly believe a major part of a Strat's identity, both sonically and aesthetically is with 3 single coil pickups.


Martian mentions "aesthetics" and here I was talking about putting an HSS setup in an orange sparkle Strat using an anodized gold pickguard.... :oops: Heck, now I'm even rethinking the pickguard choice... maybe white would be a better choice with a set of white Fratocaster SD pickups...


I recommend white pickups and a tortoise pickguard:

Image

It's a beautiful thing!!!

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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:13 am
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Martian wrote:
I recommend white pickups and a tortoise pickguard:

Image

It's a beautiful thing!!!


I really like the brown tortoise shell pickguard (put one on my Shoreline Gold CP 50's) but I'm wondering if maybe that would be too much with the orange flake... Then again, maybe the darker pickguard would kinda tone it down... Decisions, decisions...

Image


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Post subject: Re: Fratocaster Pickups vs Fat 50s
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:19 am
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oldguy101 wrote:
Martian wrote:
I recommend white pickups and a tortoise pickguard:

Image

It's a beautiful thing!!!


I really like the brown tortoise shell pickguard (put one on my Shoreline Gold CP 50's) but I'm wondering if maybe that would be too much with the orange flake... Then again, maybe the darker pickguard would kinda tone it down... Decisions, decisions...

Image


Instead of the ever popular and ubiquitous, "Sunburst", your's would be a unique, "Sunset". :wink:

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