It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:47 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: 2 Neck Pups for '07 Fender MIM Jazz? Fender vs. DiMarzio?
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:18 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:32 pm
Posts: 6
I'm a newbie to posting on the forum, but a long time reader....

I'm planning on changing out the pups on my '07 Standard MIM jazz and have been reading on these forums how the MIMs don't have different sizes of the bridge and neck pups as their MIA counterparts do--but all the posts seemed to be quite old.

As I measure my stock Standard MIM pups, they are identical in length, which (from what I've read) seems to tell me they are two identical neck pups... and thus not noise-cancelling since they are not wound opposite to each other.

I was wanting to go with the Fender Custom Shop 60s J-bass set to give me the sound I want, but I've read conflicting posts about whether or not the bridge pup is too long since that set is supposedly made for MIAs. As I look at the stock photos on Fender's site (and others) they look the same length to me, though.

I wouldn't feel comfortable routing out the cavity or pickguard, so I'm looking for something I can drop in without a lot of modification.

Questions:
1) Would the Fender Custom 60s work (i.e. is the info on size difference of the bridge pup still applicable to the '07 MIM vs. MIA)?

2) I would also consider the DiMarzio Ultra Jazz 149s as a second choice which, according to the DiMarzio website installation guide, are "a direct replacement for the original pickups in all Jazz Basses. (No modification to the Jazz Bass is necessary for installation.)"...... Does anyone have any input or personal experience on whether these will truly fit an '07 MIM jazz without modification?

I'd rather not have to order two neck pickups unless I have to, since I'd like to get the noise reduction of opposite wounds if possible.

Thanks for any help you can give!

_________________
2009 Aerodyne Jazz Bass
2008 Standard Jazz
Acoustic B100 Combo Amp


Last edited by gatordogdoc on Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:02 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
AFAIK, the MIM standard J-Bass pickup routs are identical -- thus, to use the Custom Shop '62 pickup set you'll need to enlarge the bridge rout to accommodate the larger bridge pickup. Likewise the pickguard will require an appropriate modification. Any qualified luthier can do this for a reasonable fee.

The Jazz Bass pickups are not "reverse-wound" from one another. If you want noiseless operation you'll need a different set of pickups. Adding the brass shielding kit to the pickup routs and control cavity (as used on vintage and re-issue MIA Jazz Basses) will decrease the hum. It's available from Angela Instruments at www.angelainstruments.com and is reasonably priced.

HTH

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: 2 Neck Pups for '07 Fender MIM Jazz?
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:14 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:32 pm
Posts: 6
Quote:
The Jazz Bass pickups are not "reverse-wound" from one another. If you want noiseless operation you'll need a different set of pickups. Adding the brass shielding kit to the pickup routs and control cavity (as used on vintage and re-issue MIA Jazz Basses) will decrease the hum. It's available from Angela Instruments at www.angelainstruments.com and is reasonably priced.

HTH

Arjay


Retroverbial,

Sorry to hear that I would have to re-route the cavity... may have to have a luthier do it if I decide to go with those pups.

Regarding the "noiseless", I understand that these aren't true noiseless pups, but I have been told by Fender Cust. Service, and is quoted in several sources that the neck and bridge are reverse wound, making them essentially humbuckers when both are turned full on:

Quote:
The Jazz Bass has a bright sound, with more high end than the Precision Bass. This makes it ideal for slap playing as well as finger-style players. This bright sound is due to the fact that there are two pickups at different points in the string's length. The bridge pickup gives a tone with more treble, while the neck pickup will yield a rounder sound. The ability to blend the volume of both pickups allows for a wider variety of tones than the Precision Bass can produce. Pickups are RWRP (reverse wound, reverse polarity) from one another, so all hum will be canceled when both pickups are at full volume.


This has been my experience with them in MIAs, as well... both volume knobs full up cancels hum and causes a midrange scoop in the sound due to neutralization of frequencies. I seem to get that a bit on my MIM, but not to the same degree as a MIA.... Fender says that the MIMs have 2 neck pups, not a true neck and bridge pup.

Am I wrong on this? Misinformed? Please correct me, if so!

Anyone have an opinion on this "sidebar" topic?


Still, the primary question for me remains....
If I want to replace the pups without body modifications, do I need to order 2 neck pups from Fender?

Is there another brand that has true neck and bridge pups that will fit into the identical size routed pup cavities of a MIM Fender Jazz (like the aforementioned DiMarzio Ultra Jazz 149s seems to claim)?

_________________
2009 Aerodyne Jazz Bass
2008 Standard Jazz
Acoustic B100 Combo Amp


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 2 Neck Pups for '07 Fender MIM Jazz? Fender vs. DiMarzi
Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:58 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:33 am
Posts: 8461
Location: Mars, the angry red planet.
gatordogdoc wrote:
I'm a newbie to posting on the forum, but a long time reader....

I'm planning on changing out the pups on my '07 Standard MIM jazz and have been reading on these forums how the MIMs don't have different sizes of the bridge and neck pups as their MIA counterparts do--but all the posts seemed to be quite old.

As I measure my stock Standard MIM pups, they are identical in length, which (from what I've read) seems to tell me they are two identical neck pups... and thus not noise-cancelling since they are not wound opposite to each other.

I was wanting to go with the Fender Custom Shop 60s J-bass set to give me the sound I want, but I've read conflicting posts about whether or not the bridge pup is too long since that set is supposedly made for MIAs. As I look at the stock photos on Fender's site (and others) they look the same length to me, though.

I wouldn't feel comfortable routing out the cavity or pickguard, so I'm looking for something I can drop in without a lot of modification.

Questions:
1) Would the Fender Custom 60s work (i.e. is the info on size difference of the bridge pup still applicable to the '07 MIM vs. MIA)?

2) I would also consider the DiMarzio Ultra Jazz 149s as a second choice which, according to the DiMarzio website installation guide, are "a direct replacement for the original pickups in all Jazz Basses. (No modification to the Jazz Bass is necessary for installation.)"...... Does anyone have any input or personal experience on whether these will truly fit an '07 MIM jazz without modification?

I'd rather not have to order two neck pickups unless I have to, since I'd like to get the noise reduction of opposite wounds if possible.

Thanks for any help you can give!


Welcome!

Evidentally, you know the dimensions of your pickups' routs so we will predicate all of this on you having two neck pickups (so to speak).

The CS 60s set does indeed have a wider bridge pickup in comparison to the neck pickup so the answer to your first question is no.

In answer to your second question, the same holds true with the DiMarzios. However, you can order two neck pickups with one being RW/RP to the other from DiMarzio.

_________________
You dig?


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:46 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:32 pm
Posts: 6
Thanks Martian...

.... but now it seems there is more to the Mexican pickup story:

Just got off the phone with Fender after having traded emails and spoke with one of their top tech guys... about half of the 2004 MIM basses and all of the 2005 - present MIM basses (i.e. serial number MZ4xxxxxx and later) now have 2 different sized pickups-- the usual neck pickup and the slightly larger bridge pickup-- same size as on any other bass.

So, unless I've got a bootleg Fender with a bogus serial number decal (not likely, given the source of my purchase), any current set of jazz pickups (neck + bridge) should fit. :D

I'm either going to get a set of the Fender Custom 60s or possibly the DiMarzio DP149s and drop them in .

I'll continue to monitor this thread and update it when I get them and confirm if they fit, as a service to other MIM owners who may be thinking about doing this. Probably would take about 2 weeks until I can get it done, though.

Thanks for everyone's comments!

_________________
2009 Aerodyne Jazz Bass
2008 Standard Jazz
Acoustic B100 Combo Amp


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:52 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
gatordogdoc wrote:
about half of the 2004 MIM basses and all of the 2005 - present MIM basses (i.e. serial number MZ4xxxxxx and later) now have 2 different sized pickups-- the usual neck pickup and the slightly larger bridge pickup-- same size as on any other bass.


That's great news for you and everybody else interested in this upgrade! The CS '60s pickups are a great set.

Thanks for the info, gator.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:53 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:33 am
Posts: 8461
Location: Mars, the angry red planet.
gatordogdoc wrote:
Thanks Martian...

.... but now it seems there is more to the Mexican pickup story:

Just got off the phone with Fender after having traded emails and spoke with one of their top tech guys... about half of the 2004 MIM basses and all of the 2005 - present MIM basses (i.e. serial number MZ4xxxxxx and later) now have 2 different sized pickups-- the usual neck pickup and the slightly larger bridge pickup-- same size as on any other bass.

So, unless I've got a bootleg Fender with a bogus serial number decal (not likely, given the source of my purchase), any current set of jazz pickups (neck + bridge) should fit. :D

I'm either going to get a set of the Fender Custom 60s or possibly the DiMarzio DP149s and drop them in .

I'll continue to monitor this thread and update it when I get them and confirm if they fit, as a service to other MIM owners who may be thinking about doing this. Probably would take about 2 weeks until I can get it done, though.

Thanks for everyone's comments!


You're welcome and good luck!

_________________
You dig?


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:23 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:32 pm
Posts: 6
Okay, maybe this is the final word from Fender regarding different sized pickups in Fender MIM Jazz basses, when the change occurred, and with what kind of pickups.

After all the discussions on another thread and other forums, and some sidebar discussions regarding hum-cancelling, I sent Fender an email with a few very direct questions. Here is a summary of what Fender emailed me back with... I guess I would consider this an "official" a response as they will ever give. I can not vouch for the accuracy of the physics, but this is what a "Supervisor of Production" at Fender said:

Regarding MIM Fender Jazz basses:

Before 2001 = 2 pickups of same size with flat poles (i.e. identical "neck" pickups wired as neck and bridge) as a cost-savings measure. These are considered hum-cancelling if volumes are kept equal (not the volume pots---the actual produced volume--explained farther along). The lesser quality of this set up partly stems from the fact that the "bridge" pickup magnets don't line up well with the strings as they spread apart as the strings approach the bridge (because it is not wider). This gave a different volume to the "bridge" pickup vs. the neck pickup when the volume pots are set at the same levels (but doesn't affect tone). So players would have to either turn down the neck pickup or turn up the bridge pickup (relative to the other) to try and balance them when hum-cancelling was desired. Since most jazz players know that turning the volume pots both "full on" cancels hum (from experience with Fender MIA jazz basses, among others, which had different sized pickups), they would try it with the MIMs, but it didn't work on these. This is a pain, and if the volume settings got bumped once set to hum-cancel, you'd have to readjust them. Fender was okay with this until the popularity of the MIMs and the demand by its customers to produce a more universal pickup size and sound brought about a change. Comment: I would think a simple calibration of the volume pots to make the knob settings and the actual volumes equal between neck and bridge would fix this problem, but maybe this wasn't practical given the QC at the Mexican plant (?).

2001 and after = 2 pickups of different sizes with raised poles (i.e. true neck + bridge pickup, and humcancelling when volumes set equally) is the norm. There were a few 2001 runs made with 2 different sized pickups with flat pole pieces when the raised weren't available due to limited supply early in the production change. These are considered of a lesser quality than the pickups with raised pole pieces, and are "very few in number" (no specific numbers given). It wasn't stated if these were hum-cancelling or not, but I would guess they are. These "flat pole pickups" would have a different sound vs. the raised pole pickups since the distance of the magnets from the string varies the volume of that string. So you get a different "blend" of individual E+A+D+G string volumes with a flat pole pickup vs. a raised pole pickup. Since the new "raised pole" pickups were wider at the bridge, they line up with the strings better and pickup equal volumes as compared to the neck pickup. So any time the volume pots are set equally--the easiest of these settings is both "full on"--you get hum-cancelling. Thus these work similarly to MIAs or any other jazz bass with 2 different sized pickups. The quality difference is in the wire and magnets used in MIMs vs. MIAs. It would be very unusual for any 2001 MIM Fender bass to be seen today with 2 different sized pickups that have flat poles... Comment: I guess they are that few in number and most have already been modified.

So, if you have a Fender MIM Jazz bass made 2001 or later, you will (should) have 2 different sized pickups (with raised poles) and if you want to swap them out, any standard sized neck/bridge jazz pickup set should fit without any modifications to the body or pickguard. If yours is made before 2001, you will likely need to do a little routing to make the bridge pickup fit. (Note: these dates are not consistent with what I was previously told by a Fender tech, but does seem consistent with what forum members say)

By the way, my DiMarzio DP149s came, fit perfectly in my 2007 Fender MIM Jazz (without modifications), and sound great !

Thanks for all the help!

_________________
2009 Aerodyne Jazz Bass
2008 Standard Jazz
Acoustic B100 Combo Amp


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:16 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Great job running this to ground, GDD.

I've built two Jazz Basses based on MIM bodies and I wish I'd had this data available before starting. The first instrument used a relatively recent '60s re-issue body in 3TSB -- the CS '62 pickup set fit perfectly. The second bass was a MIM Std in Lake Placid Blue but I couldn't ascertain the date as it came with an Allparts "tuxedo" neck. The routs on that body are equally-sized so I'm guessing it was a pre-2001 bass. I've yet to modify the bridge rout to accommodate the wider CS pickups but I hope to soon.

Thanks for posting this.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:46 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:33 am
Posts: 8461
Location: Mars, the angry red planet.
You'd make a good detective!

It really is a shame in a way that you had to go through all this research for something which should have been standardized, especially due to the fact that it is a Fender instrument.

Well, as has already been said, you've helped out a lot of people with your investigations and I tip my hat to you, well done!!

_________________
You dig?


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:28 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:10 am
Posts: 1086
I'm getting confused CS 62 or CS 60's? AFAIK the CS 60's require a little widening..

_________________
If I Like It...
I Just Do It...


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: