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Post subject: Paper&Oil vs. Orange Drop Capacitors for CS69
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:52 am
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Hello again folks!

I´m configuring a new pickguard for my highway one stratocaster on siglermusic as the following:

Fender Genuine Custom Shop '69 Pickup Set
Fender Genuine 11-Hole 3-Ply Mint Green Pickguard
Fender Genuine Aged White Pickup Covers / Knobs / Tip
Fender Genuine CTS 250K Pots
RS Jensen Paper in Oil Caps .047uF


My concern is about the values of theCapacitors and CTS Pots. Witch values should be best with the Custom Shop '69? 250K wil be the best ? .047uF or 0.22uF Caps ?

RS Jensen vs Orangedrop Sprage, or theres any other best caps ? Recommend me! I´m looking for the "Holy Grail" Capacitor for that nailed fender vintage tone. Someone said to me RS Jensen is better cause its Paper-in-Oil and Orangedrop Sprages are not.

I´m looking for the All-Strat-Bell-Tone, getting some blues, hendrix and gilmour tones out of it.

Show me your thoughts! Thanks!


Last edited by joaokorb on Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:10 am
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Definitely the Orange Drop .047 mf as it is closest to the original spec cap. The Jensen oil model is more for amplifier applications. As to the pots, Fender CTS 250K AUDIO taper pots ARE the correct ones for MOST Strats including ALL from 1969.

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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:49 am
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What do you mean by "amplifier applications" ? I´ll be running it through a Fender Pro Jr and a Vox Tonelabs ST. I was told that the Jensen Oil will deliver me the sound better to the tube vox and amp.

http://www.rsguitarworks.net/rsstore/product_info.php?cPath=45_67&products_id=423

This is the thing I´m talking about.


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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:15 am
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Here´s a prewired vintage kit from RS.

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What is that small packaged item that comes along ?


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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:08 am
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And what about those ?

Luxe 1956-1960 Bumblebee repro Capacitors Pair .022uF 400v PIO [BUMBLECAP]

http://www.rsguitarworks.net/rsstore/product_info.php?cPath=45_67&products_id=452


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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:42 pm
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joaokorb wrote:
What do you mean by "amplifier applications" ? I´ll be running it through a Fender Pro Jr and a Vox Tonelabs ST. I was told that the Jensen Oil will deliver me the sound better to the tube vox and amp.

http://www.rsguitarworks.net/rsstore/product_info.php?cPath=45_67&products_id=423

This is the thing I´m talking about.


I perceive you to be getting a bit defensive here.

Meaning, it is more for the inside of an amplifier rather than the inside of a guitar as there is nominal voltage in a guitar's circuit where the paper and oil really don't get to, "do their thing", so to speak. Besides, such things are more of a subjective nature any way and to begin with.

You wanted closest to 69 specs, I reiterated them for you. The bottom line is, the choice is totally yours no matter which way you decide and either way with the cap choice, you'll have good results.

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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:20 pm
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My personal recommendation is to use 250K CTS pots and .022 Mallory 150 capacitors.

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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:36 pm
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Hi There.

I am currently using a Russian built paper and oil cap the 22pf one in my 2010 MIM, currently the stock H-S-S pick ups, but I have two CS 1969s to install.

With the MIM ones with the stock pot it sound great.
This cap lets the tone pots work over a more usable range, instead of it doing a little, then drop like a rock near the end. It also fuller and smoother.

I will be installing the 69's soon and i will let you know how they work out, but it should work just fine.

BTW, I got mine for less then 10 buck of e-bay with shipping, if you would like a like, just let me know.

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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:15 am
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I find olds wax capacitors .047 and .022 at my local TV repair shop. It's used but does't mater they are work .
Those signals caps are not like old filter caps, they are always good

Other material caps are avalaible too.
Those olds TV shops are lots of "vintage" capacitors.
I paid $2 each last week

Bring picture of the caps you need because those TV shop doesn't know what guitar need, but they have in their old stock, used parts

Good luck


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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:20 am
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CAFeathers wrote:
My personal recommendation is to use 250K CTS pots and .022 Mallory 150 capacitors.


I fear personally that .022 would be too thin sounding for the CS69 doesnt it ?

I wounder how CS69 would sound with .022 on the neck and .047 on the bridge.

As for original `69 spec, fender used .047 on both ?


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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:22 am
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Martian wrote:
I perceive you to be getting a bit defensive here.

Meaning, it is more for the inside of an amplifier rather than the inside of a guitar as there is nominal voltage in a guitar's circuit where the paper and oil really don't get to, "do their thing", so to speak. Besides, such things are more of a subjective nature any way and to begin with.

You wanted closest to 69 specs, I reiterated them for you. The bottom line is, the choice is totally yours no matter which way you decide and either way with the cap choice, you'll have good results.


Yes indeed a little defensive. I was told that Paper-in-Oil were the best caps on earth. Now after a night sleeping on that, i dont think that so.

Im convinced that orangedrops will do the same job for me. Just wondering about the original `69 specs with both neck and bridge were .047.

Thanks for your support!


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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:32 am
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joaokorb wrote:
CAFeathers wrote:
My personal recommendation is to use 250K CTS pots and .022 Mallory 150 capacitors.


I fear personally that .022 would be too thin sounding for the CS69 doesnt it ?

I wounder how CS69 would sound with .022 on the neck and .047 on the bridge.

As for original `69 spec, fender used .047 on both ?


It's all a personal thing. Use what you feel is right for you.

I prefer .022 in my guitars and .047 in my basses.

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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:35 am
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joaokorb wrote:

Yes indeed a little defensive. I was told that Paper-in-Oil were the best caps on earth. Now after a night sleeping on that, i dont think that so.

Im convinced that orangedrops will do the same job for me. Just wondering about the original `69 specs with both neck and bridge were .047.

Thanks for your support!


Of course, you'll be told that the Paper-in-Oil were the best caps on earth and for the appropriate applications, they are. For your application, they are merely the most expensive (which also is why you'll be told such things) but the reality of it is, in a passive guitar's circuit, they will not provide any kind of mystical, magical or 'divine' tonality.

As to your Strat's circuit, there is/was only one capacitor involved. Originally, and not to confuse the issue, it was a .050 mfd cap and it is/was for both tone pots. The difference between .047 mfd and .050 mfd is virtually indistinguishable to the naked ear regardless of what psychos like Eric Johnson proclaim where they insist they can hear tone (of all things) in different battery brands' voltage. But I digress. The upper tone pot is/was for the neck pickup, the lower tone pot is/was for the middle pickup. And yes, sharing only the one capacitor. Note that the bridge pickup does not have a tone control at all.

Like I said, the orange drop will serve quite well whereas anything like oil and paper is simply overkill in a guitar's circuit. As stated by others above, the Mallorys are an excellent choice as are the old wax types choice too. Even if an old, used wax cap is chosen, the only difference is the voltage tolerance of the cap which will not be the same (as strong) as when the cap was installed initially in whatever circuit. But again, in a passive guitar's circuit (such as this), the depletion in voltage tolerance for all intents and purposes is irrelevant.

Glad to help.

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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:20 pm
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I agree with Martian................ all this cap business is SNAKE OIL !!

I have a set of '69's and think the pots work nice with the .047µF cap.

3- 250K audio pots are good

I also have the bottom tone control wired to the bridge pup..............nice to take the treble down on that a hair now and then.


BTW, the cap doesn't really do JACK until you turn the tone pot.

When you get to about 7 or lower with a tone pot the cap comes into play. Then the higher the value cap, the more dark (faster) the tone will get as you turn it down.

All this crap about having "BETTER/DIFFERENT" tone out of an electric guitar just because you have a capacitor they use in the Space Shuttle is B.S.

>I´m looking for the All-Strat-Bell-Tone<

Set the pickups real low with the pickguard.



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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:09 am
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BTW, the cap doesn't really do JACK until you turn the tone pot.
When you get to about 7 or lower with a tone pot the cap comes into play. Then the higher the value cap, the more dark (faster) the tone will get as you turn it
- sjtalion
------------------------------
Not exact.
Caps and pot are always in circuit and make différence in tone at ANY tone pot adjustment.
You can make a test ; disconnect one end of your cap and you can hear a difference in guitar tone.

Also, if you reverse the caps there is very small difference in tone. Vey very small but with some cap you can hear it ( Premier Guitar magazine this summer)

IMO, caps must have tolerance. 5% , 10% ?

A .05 could be a .047 mfd
At 5% a .05 is .0475 to .0525mfd
At 10% it is .045 to .055mfd

That's why you can put .05 or .047 caps


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