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Post subject: hum-cancelling pickups
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:35 am
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Hi,
I would like to ask a question about hum-cancelling pickups (for example Fender Vintage Noiseless, Fender-Lace Sensors, Fender Samarium Cobalt Noiseless).

I have never played a guitar with such pickups and I was wondering is there a difference and if yes - how big is the difference between the sound of hum-cancelling pickups and classic single coils. Do they sound like single coil pickups, or their sound is between single coils and humbuckers ?

Thank you in advance,

Tomek


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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:19 pm
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I've played the noiseless at guitar stores. They are very different. First, they are dead quiet. Not a peep of background noise or hum. No, they don't sound like a humbucker. Fender's using some sort of different technology that's newer, and they still sound like single-coils, but startlingly quiet. Also, Fender redid the balance with the SCN noiseless and so the g string isn't overly hot like on my upgraded '06 Highway One. Playing the Beck, the SCNs, the strings are less "live" in that they just don't sound off unless they're supposed to do it. I've got hum cancelling from the reverse-wound middle pickup on my Highway One, and I do really like the tone I'm getting, but it's not the same as the dead quiet of these noiseless pickups. The noiseless are really kind of a trip at first because it's strange to have such dead quiet. I'm checking out this forum to get more information about them too. My next move may be to upgrade my Highway One with SCN or whatever is the best noiseless I can find.


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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:36 pm
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Thank you for reply.

I also plan to do a pickup replacement in the future (MIM Fender Stratocaser).

I was thinking about some classic single coils like Fender Custom Shop '54, but I would also like to have hum-cancelling.

Do you think it is better to change pickups to hum-cancelling ones or to classic single coils and use a noise gate ?

Is the type of magnet used for pickup construction affecting the level of hum ?

Thank you in advance

Tomek


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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:47 pm
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I don't know. I've never used noiseless, but when I played them in the music store it was a revelation. I'm thinking the Beck ones are the way to go, because if you check out the Beck it's every great thing the great Jeff Beck can put into a guitar. The Clapton guitar is more specifically a specific copy of Clapton's guitar, while the Beck is just a drop dead awesome instrument and when I played it I loved it. I bought the Highway One with the intention of modding it to be more like the Beck, but due to problems swapping the nut I'll just stick with pencil graphite in my bone nut instead of going for the great LSR nut in the Beck. The pickups though I can get them. Even Fender's web site about the hot noiseless from the Beck talks up the definition in the pickups. When I played them in the store, they eliminated any kind of dumb hum and just played brilliantly.

I'm also very interested in the Texas Special custom shop pickups, and the SCN noiseless pickups. The Texas Specials are not noise-cancelling but they are reverse-wound in the middle pickup for the hum cancelling in 2 and 4. I think the Texas Specials may have a more drop-dead tone, and I'm torn. I hope we hear from some people who know.


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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:58 pm
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Sorry, my recollection was hazy but now it's back to me. The Beck guitar was awesome, and the Beck pickups were noiseless and didn't give out any dumb hum, but the Beck pickups were basssy. They had a really big mid, and did sound great, but didn't have the single-coil crackle as much as I wanted. Then I played the SCN noiseless on a '57 hot rod and a Custom Shop Pro, and those were the best. They had all the sparkle of a single-coil without the hum. The guy at Wild West knew his stuff and he told me the Beck is actually a dual coil with a ceramic magnet, which is a sort of humbucker, I think, although exactly how Fender is doing it isn't like a Gibson humbucker. That's possibly why as great as the Beck guitar is, the sound is not exactly the classic Strat crackle. So SCNs are the ones I'm most interested in right now. Anyone got them and can you tell us about them - and Fender can you explain at our simple level a little bit about how these pickups can cancel hum without being the 50s humbucker design?


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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:15 pm
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Wow - great post!

SCN's ARE a "stack" design - much like that of original 50's humbucking pickups with the difference of dual coils being placed one on top of the other instead of side by side. This retains the original look and feel of Fender instruments and their legendary design language.

SCN's are the result of our R&D's collaboration with Bill Lawrence. Bill's designs and contributions to this industry are unmeasurable. His playing, pickup design and engineering prowess are second to none. If you don't know about Bill, please do a little research and treat yourself!

The magnetic material, construction and design of these pickups is patented and 100% proprietary to Fender. What the previous versions of the noiseless designs lacked, the SCN's make up for. Ok, how?

Typical dual coil/ stacked pickups generally tend to cut off some lower -mid frequencies and subsequently inhibit the characteristics of the single coil feel we all know and love being Fender afficionados. The introduction of specially placed Samarium Cobalt magnetic material in the pickup construction (at strategic locations) & combined specific construction results in the retention of the frequencies typical stack designs take away.
At the same time, using specially designed alloys for the pole pieces, special moderator bar placement and a mathematically selected space between the coils, the magnetic and subsequent sound response of the pickups behaved in a way that Fender R&D was blown away by! These things sounded amazing, performed without hum and actually at times (as it's been reported by our R&D staff) outperformed our coveted test pickups from the 50's on up.

The results of this experiment resulted in MORE options. Not only do these SCN's retain all of the single coil love and feel without hum, you can also wire them in parallel without a loss in output. WOW. Nowhere else will you find a hum-cancelling pickup that sounds exactly like a true single coil, adds more magnetic "dynamics" and have the ability to wire in either series or parallel.

Hope this helps. Fun to write it!

My best,
BP

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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:35 pm
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I got this guitar after playing a Standard Strat for 15 years. The Vintage Noisless Pickups were very different. I didn't like it at first, but after using them a while, I like them better than hummers.

I used to use the Bridge/Middle and Middle/Neck positions the most. But with the Noisless, I end up using single pick up positions more often.

They still sound like a Stratocaster pick ups.


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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:44 pm
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Thank you for all replies.

Could you possibly tell me how big is the difference in sound between classic single coils and hum-cancelling ones ?

If I understood correctly, hum-cancelling pickups are made with two coils instead of one - does this make them sound more like humbuckers, or they still sound like single coils ?

Could anyone who had experience with Fender-Lace Sensors tell us something about them ?

Thank you in advance

Tomek

=====================================

I would like to add one more question :
which of Fender's hum-cancelling pickups would be - in your opinion - the best choice for poplar body?


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Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:39 am
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To my ears, Bill Lawrence's own Wilde pickups sound a bit better than the Fender ones. Dirt cheap, too. www.billlawrence.com.


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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:52 pm
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I put the Vintage Noiseless in my MIM Tele. Love the sound. But remember, they are vintage. If you want to drive the input stage of your amp, you'll want a hotter pup.


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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:14 am
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The Barden pickups in my Danny Gatton Signature Tele are the only humcancelling single coil pickups that give me the same feel and tones as my old Teles. The VNs were very weak and lacked the punch of the old single coils. Lace Sensors are nice, but very even and compressed, almost like listening to a recording of the pickups rather than the pickups themselves. I've only played the SCNs once, and they seemed to lack some low end to my ears. YMMV.

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Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:16 am
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Hi again,

I would like to ask for you opinions: is it better to buy hum-cancelling pickups or traditional single coils + a noise gate?

Is noise gate used for removing single coils-connected hum? I have never had a noise gate and recently I was thinking of how is it done in studios when guitarists use single coils, that no hum is present on recordings.

Thank you in advance,

Tomek


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