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Post subject: CS69's Noise
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:17 am
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I finally got the body of my '78 Strat back from the paint shop and I installed the ACME assembly I ordered. I plugged it in and the pickups and knobs work but there's a lot of noise when I don't touch the strings and when I do there's a slight pop and the noise goes away. I've read that the CS69's are noisy because they don't have the reverse wound middle pickup but I just wanted to check and see if this is normal or not. I checked the assembly wiring and it matches the diagram included. There's no cavity shielding and I put on a '62 style pickguard shield. The assembly ground goes to the output jack and the bridge (hard tail). There is a lead to be screwed into the cavity shield but since there is no shielding I put some heat shrink over the lug to cover it up.

What do you think?

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Post subject: Re: CS69's Noise
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:23 am
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Voodoo Blues wrote:
...the pickups and knobs work but there's a lot of noise when I don't touch the strings and when I do there's a slight pop and the noise goes away. I've read that the CS69's are noisy because they don't have the reverse wound middle pickup but I just wanted to check and see if this is normal or not. I checked the assembly wiring and it matches the diagram included. There's no cavity shielding and I put on a '62 style pickguard shield. The assembly ground goes to the output jack and the bridge (hard tail). There is a lead to be screwed into the cavity shield but since there is no shielding I put some heat shrink over the lug to cover it up.

What do you think?


The CS69s do not have any more or less 60 cycle hum among stock Strat pickups of similar genre. The fact that the middle pickup isn't RW/RP would not be the cause for excessive noise and that "slight pop" is indeed a giveaway that something is not right in the circuit. Cavity shielding is irrelevant unless you submerge the pickups themselves into it; the 62 shield is of marginal help as although it insulates the wires, the pickups themselves are the biggest receptor for noise entering the circuit. The "assembly ground" as you've called it, you've taken appropriate action. I would rule any and all of this out.

Back to the pop: Premising there is nothing wrong with your amp, cable, house wiring, etc, whenever I hear your exact complaint, that immediately makes me think a capacitor is discharging (the source of the pop) which makes me think first that the output jack's wires may be reversed and if they aren't, something else in the circuit is reversed or the entire circuit is not properly grounded or, and this is very common, the capacitor is misplaced.

Premising it is not the output jack, if you can post a picture of your wiring harness, that would help a thousand fold.

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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:59 am
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The wifey is in New York with the camera until Saturday so I'll post some pics when she gets back...

... would the problem be caused if the tone pots weren't grounded to the volume pot? I just pulled up a wiring diagram from the ACME site and there's a note saying that the tone pots should be grounded and I don't recall seeing this done on my assembly. Why wouldn't they do this at ACME?

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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:23 am
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Hello!

i've just had a peek at the Acme website. Did you click on the option for a sheilded ground wire? Looks as if there assemblys don't have ground wires as standard!?!

The rig pictured here doesn't have ground wires on the tone pots. Which is pretty odd?

http://www.acmeguitarworks.com/Strat-As ... 2C132.aspx

We'll see what Martian has to say about this.

Andy

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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:37 am
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Andybighair wrote:
Did you click on the option for a sheilded ground wire? Looks as if there assemblys don't have ground wires as standard!?!

The rig pictured here doesn't have ground wires on the tone pots. Which is pretty odd?


That's what I'm talking about, if you look at the pic there is no ground to the tone pots.

But the assembly does come with ground wires from the volume, one for the bridge, one for the output jack and one for the cavity (if needed) it's just missing the connection from the volume to the tone pot.

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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:55 am
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Voodoo Blues wrote:
Andybighair wrote:
Did you click on the option for a sheilded ground wire? Looks as if there assemblys don't have ground wires as standard!?!

The rig pictured here doesn't have ground wires on the tone pots. Which is pretty odd?


That's what I'm talking about, if you look at the pic there is no ground to the tone pots.

But the assembly does come with ground wires from the volume, one for the bridge, one for the output jack and one for the cavity (if needed) it's just missing the connection from the volume to the tone pot.

I think you should give ACME a call and see why they have sent you an incomplete assembly. It kind of defeats the point of a "Pre-wired" pickguard if you then have to wire it up!

AMCE didn't do Y.E Coyote any favors either :roll:


Image
:D

Image

Either way your going to need to get those tone pots grounded. How handy are you with a soldering iron?

Enjoy!

Andy

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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:10 am
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Voodoo Blues wrote:
The wifey is in New York with the camera until Saturday so I'll post some pics when she gets back...

... would the problem be caused if the tone pots weren't grounded to the volume pot? I just pulled up a wiring diagram from the ACME site and there's a note saying that the tone pots should be grounded and I don't recall seeing this done on my assembly. Why wouldn't they do this at ACME?


Having the '62 grounding plate, the pots and selector switch were all grounded the moment you tightened them all to it.

In answer to your second question, I guess Acme presumes the installer would presume all components must be grounded although I for one would not take such things for granted.

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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:16 am
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Martian wrote:
Having the '62 grounding plate, the pots and selector switch were all grounded the moment you tightened them all to it.


Darn, I was hoping that's what the problem was.

I did email ACME and ask them the same question as my original post and they said it was normal for these pickups.

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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:28 am
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Voodoo Blues wrote:
Martian wrote:
Having the '62 grounding plate, the pots and selector switch were all grounded the moment you tightened them all to it.


Darn, I was hoping that's what the problem was.

I did email ACME and ask them the same question as my original post and they said it was normal for these pickups.


I'm not going to get in the middle of you and Acme but suffice it to say that if your original complaint was a "normal" phenomenon, all single coil Strats be routinely buzzing and popping like yours to where you'd get a plethora of posts indicating same.

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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:54 pm
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Thanks for your replies so far Martian and I have to correct myself. When I got home I plugged her back in and I was mistaken about the poping noise. There is no popping sound just the hum. With fingers on she's dead quiet but without there's a hum. Does this help at all? I'm just not used to it because my SRV Strat is always quiet.

Can I ask another question... why does the bridge need to be grounded? I thought it was because the person playing was basically grounding the entire system but if the pickups have a ground to the output jack which is grounded to the amp and the amp is grounded to the outlet... you see where I'm going with this... or am I all wrong in my way of thinking about it?

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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:06 pm
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Voodoo Blues wrote:
Thanks for your replies so far Martian and I have to correct myself. When I got home I plugged her back in and I was mistaken about the poping noise. There is no popping sound just the hum. With fingers on she's dead quiet but without there's a hum. Does this help at all? I'm just not used to it because my SRV Strat is always quiet.

Can I ask another question... why does the bridge need to be grounded? I thought it was because the person playing was basically grounding the entire system but if the pickups have a ground to the output jack which is grounded to the amp and the amp is grounded to the outlet... you see where I'm going with this... or am I all wrong in my way of thinking about it?


Indeed it does help. A capacitor malady is now out of the equation.

Both the Texas Specials (TSs) and the CS69s (69s) have 60 cycle hum which is inherent.

The TSs as a Strat pickup model is designed with a focus at the lowest frequency spectrum and is the most powerful by design in comparison to all other Fender Strat model pickups. Conversely, the CS69s are literally at the opposite end design wise. They are on the highest end of the frequency spectrum and of the weakest output for all Fender Strat model pickups. Now here's the thing: Higher frequency spectrum hum is more readily perceived by the ear and consequently, will be perceived as louder. Couple this with the fact that if you are going to match the volume of the 69s with that of the TSs, that amp has to be turned up and by necessity, increased hum will come with it.

Being an old fart, I grew up with Strats whose pickups all had the 60 cycle hum. Notwithstanding, this was totally accepted as totally normal and once the band started playing, the hum was irrelevant to all. To give a balanced presentation though, there are some who simply can't stand 60 cycle hum, period. Yet, the bottom line here is this: Is there in fact something wrong with the wiring of your guitar or is this upper spectrum hum level of the 69s intrinsically unacceptable to you?

With fingers on, being dead quiet is normal. Having your bridge grounded is how this is achieved as one's body is indeed a a superior noise-kill device due to its biological complexities which are infinitely above and beyond whatever efficiencies a superior jack to a superior amp to a superior outlet is capable of offering.

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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:35 pm
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It doesn't bother me at all, like I said I'm just not used to it. Again, thanks for all your help Martian.

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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:51 am
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Voodoo Blues wrote:
It doesn't bother me at all, like I said I'm just not used to it. Again, thanks for all your help Martian.


Glad to help!

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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:13 pm
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If you think that you would be helped by having a RWRP CS69 middle pickup, send me an email or a PM. It is possible...

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