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Post subject: Vintage Noiseless/Hot Vintage Noiseless How Can You Tell?
Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:16 pm
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I bought a set of Hot Vintage Noiseless pickups a while back online and the person that sent me the pickups sent me the packaging that they came in and it says that they are the Jeff Beck Hot vintage noiseless pickups but after I installed them they don't seem as hot as I thought they would sound. I've got SCN pickups in my other Strat and they seem to have more sustain, so I was wondering, could he have sent me regular vintage noiseless pickups in the hot vintage box? Is there any way to tell the difference between the two of them?
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tfancil


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Post subject: Re: Vintage Noiseless/Hot Vintage Noiseless How Can You Tell
Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:53 pm
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tfancil wrote:
I bought a set of Hot Vintage Noiseless pickups a while back online and the person that sent me the pickups sent me the packaging that they came in and it says that they are the Jeff Beck Hot vintage noiseless pickups but after I installed them they don't seem as hot as I thought they would sound. I've got SCN pickups in my other Strat and they seem to have more sustain, so I was wondering, could he have sent me regular vintage noiseless pickups in the hot vintage box? Is there any way to tell the difference between the two of them?
Thanks,
tfancil


The Hot Noiseless aren't really 'hot', per se. There's only two practical ways you can tell vs. the 'regular' Noiseless.

1. Compare the polepieces (magnets). The 'regular' have nice, shiny polished ones and the Hot have more of a dull, battered look.

2. With a multi-meter, take a DC ohms reading of each pickup. The Hot read slightly higher than the 'regular'. Unfortunately, I forgot the DC resistance of both Noiseless varieties; you'll have to Google for that.

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Post subject: Re: Vintage Noiseless/Hot Vintage Noiseless How Can You Tell
Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:37 pm
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Martian wrote:

The Hot Noiseless aren't really 'hot', per se. There's only two practical ways you can tell vs. the 'regular' Noiseless.

1. Compare the polepieces (magnets). The 'regular' have nice, shiny polished ones and the Hot have more of a dull, battered look.

2. With a multi-meter, take a DC ohms reading of each pickup. The Hot read slightly higher than the 'regular'. Unfortunately, I forgot the DC resistance of both Noiseless varieties; you'll have to Google for that.


Thanks for the great info! It looks like my pole pieces are dull and rough looking, so these must be the Hot Noiseless. I guess I was looking for these to sound more like the Duncan JB JR pickups. I'll have to play with them some more and see if I can get used to them.
Thanks again,
Troy


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Post subject: Re: Vintage Noiseless/Hot Vintage Noiseless How Can You Tell
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:52 am
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tfancil wrote:
Martian wrote:

The Hot Noiseless aren't really 'hot', per se. There's only two practical ways you can tell vs. the 'regular' Noiseless.

1. Compare the polepieces (magnets). The 'regular' have nice, shiny polished ones and the Hot have more of a dull, battered look.

2. With a multi-meter, take a DC ohms reading of each pickup. The Hot read slightly higher than the 'regular'. Unfortunately, I forgot the DC resistance of both Noiseless varieties; you'll have to Google for that.


Thanks for the great info! It looks like my pole pieces are dull and rough looking, so these must be the Hot Noiseless. I guess I was looking for these to sound more like the Duncan JB JR pickups. I'll have to play with them some more and see if I can get used to them.
Thanks again,
Troy


You're quite welcome.

No, the Hot Noiseless don't come anywhere near the characteristics of a JB Jr. By comparison, the HNs are as you've experienced, much more 'tame'.

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Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:48 pm
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I might be wrong, but I think the regular Noiseless have the word "noiseless" printed in gold ink and the hot ones in silver.


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Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:03 am
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Fossilman wrote:
I might be wrong, but I think the regular Noiseless have the word "noiseless" printed in gold ink and the hot ones in silver.


Fossilman is exactly right. I just looked at my guitars with Hot and Vintage Noiseless pups.

The Hot Noiseless aren't scorchers, by any stretch, but I do love the way they sound. I hope they grow on you.

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Post subject: Re: Vintage Noiseless/Hot Vintage Noiseless How Can You Tell
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:18 am
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Just one real quick comment here....


tfancil wrote:
I've got SCN pickups in my other Strat and they seem to have more sustain, so I was wondering...



Ummm....you do realize that the pickups don't really have anything to do with "sustain", right? Bridges/trem blocks and even the woods of the neck and body will effect sustain but not the pickups...unless of course you have them too close to the strings in which case the magnetic pull of the pickups will kill the sustain (but this will happen with -any- pickup). If you really are having a problem with sustain, I'd check to make sure you don't have them too close to the strings.

Other than that, I have to agree that the VN's aren't nearly as "hot" as something like Duncans. I have a set of the regular VN's on one of my Squiers (and they were on my MIM before that)...what I liked about them isn't really how hot they are or anything as much as that they are very responsive and of course, they're really quiet...nice for recording.

Peace,
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Vintage Noiseless/Hot Vintage Noiseless How Can You Tell
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:34 pm
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lomitus wrote:
Just one real quick comment here....


tfancil wrote:
I've got SCN pickups in my other Strat and they seem to have more sustain, so I was wondering...



Ummm....you do realize that the pickups don't really have anything to do with "sustain", right? Bridges/trem blocks and even the woods of the neck and body will effect sustain but not the pickups...unless of course you have them too close to the strings in which case the magnetic pull of the pickups will kill the sustain (but this will happen with -any- pickup). If you really are having a problem with sustain, I'd check to make sure you don't have them too close to the strings...
Jim


With all due respect, I vehemently disagree with the pickups themselves having nothing to do with sustain and would really love to read your reasoning behind this statement/conclusion. The magnet type, its strength, the coil winding, its composition and traverse; the proximity of the pickup to the strings in conjunction with what you've cited (plus more) ALL affect how the signal from the string is electronically processed as it all starts with the magnets. You've even said this yourself where you've cited that excessive magnetic pull will kill sustain. This postulation alone implies that distancing the magnet from the strings will prolong sustain.

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Post subject: Re: Vintage Noiseless/Hot Vintage Noiseless How Can You Tell
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:54 pm
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Martian wrote:
lomitus wrote:
Just one real quick comment here....


tfancil wrote:
I've got SCN pickups in my other Strat and they seem to have more sustain, so I was wondering...



Ummm....you do realize that the pickups don't really have anything to do with "sustain", right? Bridges/trem blocks and even the woods of the neck and body will effect sustain but not the pickups...unless of course you have them too close to the strings in which case the magnetic pull of the pickups will kill the sustain (but this will happen with -any- pickup). If you really are having a problem with sustain, I'd check to make sure you don't have them too close to the strings...
Jim


With all due respect, I vehemently disagree with the pickups themselves having nothing to do with sustain and would really love to read your reasoning behind this statement/conclusion. The magnet type, its strength, the coil winding, its composition and traverse; the proximity of the pickup to the strings in conjunction with what you've cited (plus more) ALL affect how the signal from the string is electronically processed as it all starts with the magnets. You've even said this yourself where you've cited that excessive magnetic pull will kill sustain. This postulation alone implies that distancing the magnet from the strings will prolong sustain.


Ok...perhaps I really worded that wrong. Yes...pickups -will- affect sustain but between the models of pickups we're discussing here, that affect isn't going to be all that terribly significant from pickup to pickup compared with other factors such as the bridge, wood, etc..

Come on...lets be honest here. Even something like a SD "Invader" with those massive pole pieces isn't going to affect sustain all that much as long as they are a reasonable distance away from the strings...certainly not when compared with the other factors on a guitar. Either way, I stand corrected. That said, while I understand what you're saying about magnet type and material and I do (on a very slight level) agree with it, I'm curious how you feel that something such as the "coil winding" plays a significant role in something such as sustain.

Peace,
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Vintage Noiseless/Hot Vintage Noiseless How Can You Tell
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:13 pm
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[quote="lomitus"]

Alright, now you've qualified it. Limiting this condition between these two models, yes, I will definitely agree with your statement.

To answer your other statements, I'll try to keep this non-technical:

The strength of a coil and a magnet plays a direct roll in how the string gets processed through them to the amp (as you know). Now, depending on the strength of the coil and it's shape with say, a weaker magnetic pull, this coil will hang onto the note and as the coils creates capacitance, it will retain the note in its 'system', so to speak and continue passing this electronic signal through at a nice, leisurely place. Conversely, if it is a strong magnet and a weak coil, this type of pickup will give a very crisp and brisk attack as not much capacitance shall build up and the string signal is 'shot' through the pickup. Two examples of opposite ends which immediately come to mind are: A CS 69 Strat pickup (weak coil, powerful magnets) and a Duncan Custom Custom (weak magnet, powerful coils). As a capacitor is something which stores up and electrical charge and shoots it one way at a fixed interval. So, you can consider how the coils work where there's a lot of winding vs. a minimal amount. The magnets, we've already discussed.

A ridiculously strong pickup will actually 'ignore' to a large degree what the guitar is and what it is composed of as said pickup was designed with a predetermined sound, aimed at installing it in any guitar for similar results. The proof of this is the bulk of Larry DiMarzio's line. He became a millionaire successfully creating how many different pickups for this purpose. The bulk of these pickups use ceramic magnets because they are aggressive and don't interact with the coil itself like alnicos do. Addressing the Invader, that pickup for all it's power still has nothing going for it in terms of a predetermined sound and so, yes, the guitar and its hardware, etc. by necessity must come into play.

The weaker the pickup, I agree with you on this too, there is more interplay with the composition of the guitar, the hardware, the strings, etc, etc. as the pickup doesn't have enough going for it to so to speak, "take over" like say, many DiMarzios do. Classic example here: Fender's Noiseless series which reinforces your point.

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