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Post subject: Strat pickups – please help me choose
Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:14 pm
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Just got a MIM Standard with a view to changing the pups, with something to complement my Classic 60s.

I like the sound of the Fralin Vintage Hot on these sound clips ('Castles...' neck, especially when it growls a little on one of the double stops):

http://www.acmeguitarworks.com/Strat_Pi ... ips_W1.cfm


I'm after warm tones: from a ballsy neck pickup that can snarl a bit when pushed, a non-ice-picky bridge pickup and a nice springy, kind of acoustic maybe(?) middle pup. I tend to use only neck and middle, but I might do a blender pot mod to bring in the bridge (anyone got an idiots guide to the wiring?).

My descriptions of what I want are pretty inadequate, but any recommendations?




Slightly embarrassing PS. Just played the guitar for the first time and the pups sound pretty good!!! Open to reassurance that I could just leave 'em! :oops:


Last edited by VerySlowHand on Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Strat pickups – sound clips – and blender pot mod.
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:09 am
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VerySlowHand wrote:
Just got a MIM Standard with a view to changing the pups, with something to complement my Classic 60s.

I like the sound of the Fralin Vintage Hot on these sound clips ('Castles...' neck, especially when it growls a little on one of the double stops):

http://www.acmeguitarworks.com/Strat_Pi ... ips_W1.cfm


I'm after warm tones: from a ballsy neck pickup that can snarl a bit when pushed, a non-ice-picky bridge pickup and a nice springy, kind of acoustic maybe(?) middle pup. I tend to use only neck and middle, but I might do a blender pot mod to bring in the bridge (anyone got an idiots guide to the wiring?).

My descriptions of what I want are pretty inadequate, but any recommendations?

Slightly embarrassing PS. Just played the guitar for the first time and the pups sound pretty good!!! Open to reassurance that I could just leave 'em! :oops:


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." If in time, you find you don't like something, give us a yell and we'll take it from there. As to your blender pot, see linky:

http://www.lilypix.com/photos/data/71ad ... p38899.jpg

Note that the capacitor value is irrelevant in terms of rewiring your circuit for a blender pot. Also, the blender pot should be a NO LOAD pot.

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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:14 am
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Good advice. I'll check out the blender pot mod. Thanks.


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Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:33 am
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VerySlowHand wrote:
Good advice. I'll check out the blender pot mod. Thanks.


Anytime.

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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:28 am
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Okay... wonder if anyone can help me choose some pups.

Spent a bit of time assessing the MIM Standard against my MIA Standard and a Classic 60s and here are my pickup preferences – each in order of preference:

Neck MIA: nice and ballsy lead notes when pushed a little
Neck MIM: seem as loud as the MIA, but with not as much 'texture' and colder
Neck 60s: lower output, not ballsy at all, better for chords

Middle Classic 60s: chimey, acoustic and warm, not too quacky
Middle MIA: quacky and chimey - brighter but not exactly cold
Middle MIM: somewhat dull compared to the other two

Bridge: No preference... I don't want anything brittle or ice picky, but something that will blender pot with the neck would be good.

Overall thought: I like the 60s for chords and fingerpicking, the MIM seems to have less clarity or string separation compared to the MIA.

I'll mod either the MIM or MIA, but what pups (other than mixing the stock ones above, if I can find them) will give me a warm ballsy neck, a chimey, warm middle and a bridge that will blend nicely with both?

Thanks... in advance of anyone having the patience to reply!


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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:21 pm
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VerySlowHand wrote:
...but what pups...will give me a warm ballsy neck, a chimey, warm middle and a bridge that will blend nicely with both?

Thanks... in advance of anyone having the patience to reply!


For what your asking, I probably go with a complete set of Texas Specials or Texas Specials for neck and bridge with possibly a Fat 50s in the middle.

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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:54 am
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This is what I find with pickups: an okay set sounds good until you try something better, and then the differences become obvious. It's the truth! The pickups on an MIM sound like a Stratocaster, as do the MIAs. But the truth is, neither really stack up well against an excellent set of pickups. A while ago, I went to buy a fuzz pedal, and tested with an MIA Strat into a Blues Jr. The clean sounds (without the pedal in the loop, initially) sounded okay (like a Strat, right?), but were nowhere near as good as my cheap Strat copy with excellent pickups through my Classic 30. I can't imagine how good they'd sound if I put them in a well-made bona fide Strat.

Anyway, it sounds like what you want is a set of CS Fat 50s. Other good options might be Fralin Blues, Lollar Vintage Blackface or Special S series, Copperhead 1962s, or any number of other options. Welcome to the wonderful hell that is aftermarket Strat pickups!


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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:27 am
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Kinman. Blues set or Traditional MK-III set. You can't go wrong with either. Pricey but worth every penny.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:04 am
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Martian wrote:
VerySlowHand wrote:
...but what pups...will give me a warm ballsy neck, a chimey, warm middle and a bridge that will blend nicely with both?

For what your asking, I probably go with a complete set of Texas Specials or Texas Specials for neck and bridge with possibly a Fat 50s in the middle.


Martian, you have me confused. Quote from a previous thread:

"I must warn you though as I see this time and time again: Players, say in your situation, wish their OEM pickups had more balls so they'll go out and buy for example, the Texas Specials. Mission accomplished in the balls department however, the attributes which they DID like from their OEM pickups disappeared. For example, they liked the screaming high end and the quack factor of the OEMs but, and here's the key, in ADDITION to these attributes, they wished the pickups had more balls. Now, with the Texas Specials, the screaming high end is gone and the quack is now a fizzy, farty mess."

Reassure me that you were exaggerating the 'fizzy, farty' bit, in order to make a point. :?


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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:05 am
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VerySlowHand wrote:
Martian wrote:
VerySlowHand wrote:
...but what pups...will give me a warm ballsy neck, a chimey, warm middle and a bridge that will blend nicely with both?

For what your asking, I probably go with a complete set of Texas Specials or Texas Specials for neck and bridge with possibly a Fat 50s in the middle.


Martian, you have me confused. Quote from a previous thread:

"I must warn you though as I see this time and time again: Players, say in your situation, wish their OEM pickups had more balls so they'll go out and buy for example, the Texas Specials. Mission accomplished in the balls department however, the attributes which they DID like from their OEM pickups disappeared. For example, they liked the screaming high end and the quack factor of the OEMs but, and here's the key, in ADDITION to these attributes, they wished the pickups had more balls. Now, with the Texas Specials, the screaming high end is gone and the quack is now a fizzy, farty mess."

Reassure me that you were exaggerating the 'fizzy, farty' bit, in order to make a point. :?


Actually, I answered your question while confining myself strictly to your question.

Yes, and I maintain my position on this where you've seen me type many times about fizzy, farty neck pickups. IMO, this is what TS neck pickups are like to me. However, with it on '10' and the amp adjusted accordingly, you'll get exactly what you are searching for per your above requirements.

Notwithstanding and to expand on my comments, I use my neck pickup for largely everything but soloing and when I do use it to solo from, it is far and between. As I've also said many times, to suppress an inherently fizzy, farty neck pickup, for all practical purposes it has to be done via the amp which in turn, creates an anemic sounding bridge pickup. But here too, I perceived you are going for a darker, more boomier Strat where based on my perception of your requirements, the TSs with a possibility of a slightly smoother pickup such as the Fat 50s in the middle would serve you for this project as again per my perception of your requirements, you aim to feature your neck pickup where the other two are essentially supporting it. Consequently, you can filter out the fart and the fizzle provided you maintain a more powerful bridge pickup with more inherent warmth than that of the neck.

Seeing that I went this far, I might as well keep going. The TSs are "one trick ponies". Players love them or hate them. Even SRV did NOT use them as there are too many dynamics lost by the increased windings and output. Yet, he is the one most often albeit, colloquially associated with them.

If I wasn't broad banded enough in my perception of your requirements, I apologize and could always suggest other options if you wish to elaborate on more specific role(s) of your positioned pickups. However, I'll probably be all over the place in terms of manufacturers. LOL

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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:39 am
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Thanks Martian. I hope you didn't think I was questioning your integrity. Anyway, that's a much fuller explanation than my rather feeble question deserves!

If I were to elaborate – please excuse my lack of musical literacy – I don't always know the terminology that might help me explain things more coherently.

I actually use my neck pickup for guitar only pieces like Little Wing intro, Castles in the Sand and the things the Chuck Hall does on the Gallagher for the Fender amp demos (have you seen/heard them?). Although I like these on neck and middle also (where they sound a little more 'jangly' and acoustic). I love the slight growl I get from the MIA Standard neck pup if I attack the double stops in that sort of piece.

I don't play in a band, so my 'soloing' is mostly against blues and southern rock style backing tracks (and loops of my own making), where I have total control over the mix. Again, I prefer neck, or neck and middle.

My bridge is almost redundant, but if I have the blender pot mod then maybe I'll enjoy the extra dimension that gives me.

I was going to mod either my MIM or MIA Standard and sell the other one, I love the neck (the actual neck, not the pup) on the MIM, but something tells me not to sell the MIA in favour of the MIM. So I'm keeping both.

Conclusion:

1) Leave the MIA as it is, because I do like the neck pup on that and I could do the blender pot, as it already has a no-load pot. Easy, no cost mod... see how I like it.

2) Mod the MIM completely... the stock pups don't do it for me at all, so maybe use this one to experiment.

Not sure if ANY of that helps. I guess I don't use the pups like most people do. If it's still all a bit too vague please don't spend too much time on it. Thanks again so far!


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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:39 pm
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VerySlowHand wrote:
Thanks Martian. I hope you didn't think I was questioning your integrity. Anyway, that's a much fuller explanation than my rather feeble question deserves!

If I were to elaborate – please excuse my lack of musical literacy – I don't always know the terminology that might help me explain things more coherently.

I actually use my neck pickup for guitar only pieces like Little Wing intro, Castles in the Sand and the things the Chuck Hall does on the Gallagher for the Fender amp demos (have you seen/heard them?). Although I like these on neck and middle also (where they sound a little more 'jangly' and acoustic). I love the slight growl I get from the MIA Standard neck pup if I attack the double stops in that sort of piece.

I don't play in a band, so my 'soloing' is mostly against blues and southern rock style backing tracks (and loops of my own making), where I have total control over the mix. Again, I prefer neck, or neck and middle.

My bridge is almost redundant, but if I have the blender pot mod then maybe I'll enjoy the extra dimension that gives me.

I was going to mod either my MIM or MIA Standard and sell the other one, I love the neck (the actual neck, not the pup) on the MIM, but something tells me not to sell the MIA in favour of the MIM. So I'm keeping both.

Conclusion:

1) Leave the MIA as it is, because I do like the neck pup on that and I could do the blender pot, as it already has a no-load pot. Easy, no cost mod... see how I like it.

2) Mod the MIM completely... the stock pups don't do it for me at all, so maybe use this one to experiment.

Not sure if ANY of that helps. I guess I don't use the pups like most people do. If it's still all a bit too vague please don't spend too much time on it. Thanks again so far!


You're quite welcome and no, I surely didn't take any offense to anything you've said.

Yes, your elaboration is MOST helpful.

Of course, I'm totally familiar with the Hendrix stuff, as to Chuck Hall, never heard of him.

If you enjoy the MIA Strat neck pickup, the TS will definitely be overkill. For this position, I'm going to switch gears here and recommend a Duncan SSL-2. It is designed to sound like an aged, 50s Strat pickup where although it is on the highest end of the 'normal' output scale, it keeps it's midrange in check so isn't farty, etc. and overpowering and because of the flat polepieces, you will get better string separation and a much more even string response.

For your middle position, you can also go with an SSL-2 or take it up a notch with a Duncan SSL-6. This is an outright, higher output single coil designed to sound like the SSL-2, complete with the even polepieces with tonally more of everything the SSL-2 offers. Of course, this could be a candidate for the bridge too. Now, if you want to get totally nuts like I did, I put a Duncan SSL-3 in the bridge which has the flat polepieces as well and outright sounds like a smokin' P-90. And who doesn't like a smokin' P-90! Who knows? You might even find the bridge pickup much more usable! At the very least, teamed with the neck pickup, you'll have one really ripping Tele sound.

I'm literally practicing what I preach here. In one of my Strats, I have: An SSL-2 in the neck, an SSL-6 in the middle and an SSL-3 in the bridge. Naturally, it is wired so that I can get any and all pickup combinations too. Believe me, this guitar ROARS but cleans up mighty nice as well. I think you just may want to give this combo a shot as I'm positive that no way on this planet would you be disappointed!!

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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:27 am
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Martian

Check out Chuck Hall:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQrr5kOmv6Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQrr5kOm ... re=related

I thought I'd posted these the other day, but evidently not.

Enjoy.


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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:48 am
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VerySlowHand wrote:
Martian

Check out Chuck Hall:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQrr5kOmv6Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQrr5kOm ... re=related

I thought I'd posted these the other day, but evidently not.

Enjoy.


Thank you, I'll check them out forthwith.

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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:03 pm
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4 to 6k resistance is about normal for strat pickups, so output is kind of thin. Glassy tones will come from lower output pickups...

7-8k a little more mid punch and output, but still a janglely tone.

9-10k and up is going to be hotter tone.

I have seymour duncans in my strat, humbuckers in single coil slot, all 59's(10K) It's nice because I can roll off the volume on the gain channel and they clean up, but still have ok volume.

The higher the resistance the more output you can expect.

I have another stock strat that I am going to try putting in a toneshaper, it's a circuit board with solderless connectors, that let you try different wiring configurations and tone capacitors.


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