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Post subject: Vintage Noiseless...Disappointed
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:20 pm
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I was wondering if any others are unhappy with the sound of their Fender Vintage Noiseless Strat pickups. I have a 99 American Standard and my hope was to get rid of the hum without changing the sound too much (I really like the sound of the stock single coils). I had my husband install the Vintage Noise pu's (he's the engineer) and had high expectations for these since they are advertised as giving the "vintage" strat sound without the hum. I know that pickups can be subjective like paintings (in the ears of the beholder), but I did not expect these to sound so hollow and bland. The nice subtle sustain and slow decay I used to get when bending high up the neck just dies after a short while (like a limiter is on).

We used the schematic for the American Deluxe Strat (which comes stock with the VN pu's) and I set the PU height according to Fender specs and am still very disappointed. After paying $150 and all the work of soldering, I've decided to undo it all and put the stock back in. I wrote Fender an email and haven't got a response yet, but I guess I learned my lesson about noiseless technology. Nothing beats the real thing (a humming single coil).

-jen :cry:


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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:25 pm
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Welcome to the forum.

I would have played with pickup height and amp settings before giving in.

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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:42 am
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I too had severe dissapointment with vintage noiseless pickups. Their unusuall tone is quite a thing. I installed the clapton midboost to my guitar and that did sort a lot of the problem out after several experiments with resistors to lower the output. Still its not my favourite sound though it is very adaptable. The guitar does everything from black sabbath to donovan.

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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:32 am
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CAFeathers wrote:
Welcome to the forum.

I would have played with pickup height and amp settings before giving in.


Thanks for the kind welcome!
I should not have used the "past" tense, we did not swap out the pickups yet. I was just so frustrated I put the guitar away not planning on touching it until we put the old ones back in. It was very uninspiring to play. So I thought about your suggestion regarding pickup height. I did not experiment in that area. I just set them to spec which is a lot lower than the stock pickups.

Today (with a fresh ear) I raised them a couple of 64"s and I'm a lot more pleased with the tone, especially the bending. I think I'm at the point now where I might go nuts trying find the "perfect" balance between hum and tone. I may just buy another pick guard and hardware so I can swap out more easily. My husband knows a bit about shielding so if I go with the stock pickups maybe he can cut down the noise and the noiseless would be more appealing to a buyer if they were already soldered into a pick guard.

Anyways sorry for the long winded post.
This forum is a great resource,
-jen


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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:02 pm
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nikininja wrote:
I too had severe dissapointment with vintage noiseless pickups. Their unusuall tone is quite a thing. I installed the clapton midboost to my guitar and that did sort a lot of the problem out after several experiments with resistors to lower the output. Still its not my favourite sound though it is very adaptable. The guitar does everything from black sabbath to donovan.


Is the Clapton midboost an active electronics?
Were you seeking the same tone as "stock" Strat pickups but without the hum?

I like your photo :)


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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:44 pm
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Thats not me just my heroes. Ritchie and Eddie.
Yeah the clapton circuit is active. I installed it thinking it would pull the mids on the pickups more and thereby lower the spikey treble. It certainly pulled the mids up and the bass but the treble remained. It doesnt sound like a vintage pickup'd strat but is ultimately workable and quiet. The range of sounds you can get out of it is quite amazing. Sabbath, bluesbreakers (les paul era) clapton, nice country sounds, jangley neck pickup, knopfler like bridge/mid pickup. It does all those sounds not quite as good as if you had dedicated guitars to do them but close enough for live work. Which is what i use mine for. Take 4 guitars to the gig? not me just the clapton modded one and a spare.
Be warned the circuit makes the guitar about twice as loud as a regular strat. I strongly advise spending some time with a clapton before installing it. When i first put mine in i thought i'd made it worse untill i learnt how to use all the controls volume, boost and tbx or tone depending how you wire it.

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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:15 pm
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Were the volume and tone control pots replaced with the 1meg pots? From what I've read, they make all the difference with the Vintage Noiseless and, if I'm not mistaken, should have come with the set.

On another note, if you really want a set of great sounding noiseless Strat pickups and can't get the Fender's to work, check out the Kinman Blues set. I have them in my Deluxe V-Neck and they sound incredible.

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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:42 pm
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SonOfIAm wrote:
Were the volume and tone control pots replaced with the 1meg pots? From what I've read, they make all the difference with the Vintage Noiseless and, if I'm not mistaken, should have come with the set.

On another note, if you really want a set of great sounding noiseless Strat pickups and can't get the Fender's to work, check out the Kinman Blues set. I have them in my Deluxe V-Neck and they sound incredible.


Interesting you mention Kinman, I'm looking at his website now trying to digest the vast amount of info on pickup technology.

But yes my VN's came with two 1meg pots and a 500k (I assume for volume), plus the resistor and cap. We did use them. I tell you, I was ready to throw in the towel when I started this thread. However now after taking a 24 hr. crash course in basic electronics and guitar setup I realize that I was naive to believe we can just plop these things in our Strat and be in sonic bliss. These pickups are very peculiar regarding height. I like where I have them at now, but I want to play the guitar a lot on this set of strings before I decide if I need to change any pots.

-jen


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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:45 pm
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I installed them on my MIM 60's about two months ago and got really dissapointed as well.... but it was more of an experimentation with them since I had never played low output pickups..... after that I decided I am a high output pickups guy...... after all I noticed that if you have high output pickups and just lower the volume on your guitar you get basically the same "vintage" sound out of them ..... thats what I do more now .... play with the volume :)


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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:06 am
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Just a humble suggestion ... Sometimes with new pickups, the amp settings need to change, too ... and sometimes quite a bit. A particular amp can sing sweetly with one guitar, but may sound like armegedon with another guitar when it is set to the exact same settings as the first one.

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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 am
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I'd second what other forum members have said. If you want noiseless pickups then Kinmans are the best option. They're expensive but certainly worth every penny. I've got Traditional MK2's fitted to both my Strats and they sound fantastic. Everything Kinman claim on their website stands up. Not only are they noiseless but the improvement in sound quality over the stock pickups is clearly noticeable. Thoroughly recommended.


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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:52 pm
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Another thing I probably would have done is gone with 3 CTS 250k audio taper pots and .022 capacitors. And just standard wiring.


Side note: I'm not a fan of Kinman's or Seymour Duncan's.

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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:12 pm
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First, I have to say that I am not a fan of any "noiseless" pickups -- at least those that I have played, which are quite a few. I have felt like they are a bit lifeless. But, they do accomplish what they say -- they are quiet.

Having said that, noiseless pickups are not terrible. Like others said above, there are a lot of variables that go into the performance. Consider the amp settings, cables, pedal settings (if any), pots, stings (which I think a lot of people overlook -- with noiseless pups, try something a little brighter than usual IMO), and picks. That is about all I can think of right now.

I am sure that with some tweaking, you will find a tone you like. But, I don't think they'll ever sound as nice as real vintage style pickups, even with the hum.

Good luck!


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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:54 pm
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srvjh47 wrote:
First, I have to say that I am not a fan of any "noiseless" pickups -- at least those that I have played, which are quite a few. I have felt like they are a bit lifeless.


Have you played the hot noiseless pups?

Like the Jeff Beck model Strat pups?

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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:23 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
srvjh47 wrote:
First, I have to say that I am not a fan of any "noiseless" pickups -- at least those that I have played, which are quite a few. I have felt like they are a bit lifeless.


Have you played the hot noiseless pups?

Like the Jeff Beck model Strat pups?


No I haven't played the hot noiseless pups but would like to. I've heard they are a little warmer tone than the VN pups.

So update:
We replaced all the pots with 250k and cap like the stock setup. After playing on my 20w Marshall valvetube totally clean, it sounds nice. The neck pickup has that "Wind Cries Mary" sound. The bridge pickup sounds nice if I turn the tone down (10 is super twang). I'm beginning to like these now.

I'm not in a band or anything so I do a lot of recording thru a POD into a DAW, output to studio monitors. As others have said I need to play with the tone controls, because some of my favorite POD tones don't sound the same. I also wasn't pleased with the 2 and 4 "quack" positions, so I've been futzing a lot with pickup height and found I can get them to sound better if I lower the middle pickup a little.

Overall I think I'm going to like these pup's now, just taking some getting used to.
jen :D


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