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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:22 pm
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fhopkins wrote:
That's great Chet, Thanks for sharing the photo and the story with us. Between you and Doc you guys have some interesting stories ! 8)


Did I tell you that Bill is fabulous guitar player too!!!

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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:24 pm
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CAFeathers wrote:
fhopkins wrote:
That's great Chet, Thanks for sharing the photo and the story with us. Between you and Doc you guys have some interesting stories ! 8)


Did I tell you that Bill is fabulous guitar player too!!!


No you did not but I kind of thought he would be. I wonder if Leo was a good player.


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Post subject: Nice!
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:04 am
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Thanks for sharing that! I did go to Bill's forum last night and spent an hour or so surfing the various posts. It's all very interesting stuff, but showing me a wiring diagram is a bit like handing a cookery book to Blaze my pet greyhound! My best option is probably to buy a set of pickups and run them up to the city a few hours away and ask them to fit. The current scratch is worked by 3 switches rather than the 5 way selector.

Result is the whole lot has to be changed. I can get the US SCN supplier to load/wire and supply a scratch EDIT*Plate!* for a really good price, so despite the fact I love the look of Bill's work and the Youtube samples, maybe I'll have to go with my first thoughts. I have a budget for this & the scratch alone would cost a lot out here I think. I'm still waiting for Paypal to verify my card! So I have time to think!

Wierd thing is I have fitted pickups for people in the past, but it was always, pull out the old one and solder in a new one, like for like. Or at worst replace a S/Coil with a H/B. But doing a whole guitar is more than I'm up for I think!

But all the advice I've found in this forum has sure helped. Its been reassuring to know others have fitted the SCNs with no problem. The reviews that got me concerned were:

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/revi ... r+Set/10/1

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/ ... sku=301648
(Josh Kaufmans) post


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Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:34 am
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I guess you either love them or not. The installation is critical and should be done by a competent tech that knows how to balance the height of the pick up and find that sweet spot between being high and loud(causing some micro phonics) and low enough to produce great sustain.
I would suggest, if possible that you go and play a properly set up guitar with SCNs in it. Find out and hear for yourself. I find you can find reviews all over the net on one opinion or the opposing view. It's a personal decision for you. You are considering them for a strat huh? Well, Good luck in what ever you do my friend! :)


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Post subject: Thanks
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:51 pm
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Many thanks! I'll post up a YouTube flick once I've got it all installed! The clips of the Deluxe that I've been listening to sound awesome, so I'm really pumped for it! The other good news, is that I called the local dealer said that they can fit the pups for me, which is a relief!


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Post subject: Re: SCN Noiseless
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:40 pm
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MrPaulRuss wrote:
First of all - Hi to the forums!!

...The other question I had was to do with VN pickups, some people have said they cannot discern any difference in tone between the SCNs and the VNs?...

SCN pickups...needed to be installed on a non-ferrous bridge...

...use a 500k volume pot? ...


Paul, Welcome!!

Some can tell the tonal differences between VNs and SCNs and some can't. The VNs sound slightly sweeter whereas the SCNs sound slightly crisper. Output wise, they are essentially the same.

SCNs needing to be installed on a non-ferrous bridge is utter nonsense.

And now, the infamous pot issue!

250K ohms vs. 500K ohms vs. 1,000K ohms pots are a matter of personal taste. Due to respective DC resistances which people oftentimes wrongly equate with the output power of a pickup, the prevailing standard is that single coils use 250K, regular humbuckers use 500K and ridiculously overpowered humbuckers use 1,000K or 1 megohm. The different pot values when properly paired make for the optimum frequency response from the pickup(s) and the effectiveness of the sweep of the pots.

With the SCNs, frankly, you're on a borderline with the DC resistance between 250K and 500K. I'll tell you right now though, 1 Meg is right out.

If you are wiring the SCNs into your guitar stock, I'd go with a 250K for the volume pot and a 500K for each tone pot. If you find this combination too tinny or the tone pots rather ineffective, then switch both of them to 250K also. Conversely, if you find the pickups a bit brittle, switch the volume pot to 500K thus joining the the already 500K each tone pots.

Or, you can do it the other way around: Simply wire the SCNs into your existing circuit and see if you like everything just the way it is, stock with the 250K combo all around. As I'm sure you're aware, there's nothing to replacing a pot and so, the pots are not an irrevocable decision once you put the pickups in.

Good luck!

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:43 am
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Paul I have guitars with vintage noiseless sets and scn sets installed. They are 2 completely different sounding pickups they respond very differently too. VN's have a far more aggressive sound with loads of attack and not much middle. A very hifi sound a bit like plugging a electro acoustic into your stereo.
Scn's are a world apart also all that talk of non ferrous bridges is garbage. My vintage hotrod has a ferrous bridge and i'm pretty sure my custom classic does too. Neither guitar has any tone problems. As for tone they sound very well rounded with neither treb,bass or mid dominating. Compared to kent armstrong they do sound a tincey bit dulled down at the top end, nothing that a amps eq couldnt sort out though.
On pots the higher the 'K' rating the more treble bite/snap comes through. 500k is pretty standard in most strats.
I'd reccomend Scn's to anyone, vintage noiseless are a bit more player selective. I've a real love/hate relationship with them. Half the time i love them the other half i feel like throwing the guitar in the river.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:00 am
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MrPaulRuss, I don't mean to throw a monkey wrench into all of your decision making but if you are hesitant about the SCNs, check out the reviews on the Kinman Blues set. I replaced a set of SCNs in my Strat with the Kinman Blues and couldn't be happier. I will say this about the SCNs; I had another Strat with Custom 54s in it and a/b'd the SCNs with them and they were very close but without the hum. The difference I did notice was the SCNs had that compressed feel to them that most players refer to. The Kinmans are noiseless as well but you don't sacrifice any tone for it. If you're looking to spend a good amount of money on pickups you're not quite sure about, why not look to spend a bit more and get something that many players have been more satisfied with?

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/revi ... s+Set/10/1

Here's a link to Kinman's website sound files. You'll notice about halfway down they did one using the Fender SCNs (the Gold button) then the Blues set below. The difference is really close to what my experience was from the SCNs to the Blues set.

http://www.kinman.com/Shop/sounds_tmp.htm

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:37 pm
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[quote="fhopkins"]You can buy a complete set of SCN 's for $180 here at this site. I guess they will ship over seas.
http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/ ... sku=301651[/quote][b][/b][b][/b][i][/i][u][/u][list=][/list][list=][list][code][quote][u][i][b][img][/img][url][/url][/b][/i][/u][/quote][/code][/list][/list]


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Post subject: Thanks for all the help
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:05 am
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Really appreciate all the replies.

I have currently a stock 89 standard Fender pickup set in neck & mid, but an Armstrong Coolrail in the Bridge. I really like the sound of the Fender neck, but the hum is a pain! The coolrail is seems to me, reliable, but very flat - even and similar sounding at all times. Digging into the coolrail, just produces more of the same tone! I want to buy something that doesn't sound like this.

Having the VN's described as an electro-acoustic in an amp is interesting, a piezo type quack? Not the kind of sound I'm seeking - I have an Ovation Di Meola (which feel wise I love), but which needs lots of chorus to add to what I find to be an overly even flat tone. So I want to avoid this if possible.

They don't have a Deluxe in my new country atm. So I can only listen to Youtube clips, which is never the same a playing the thing. I did hear someone describe a normal S/C as producing random oscillations through the hum cycle which gives us those random nuances that we love. If this is the case, maybe I'm gonna always find hum cancellers not to be what I love.

Perhaps I'm in search of something that doesn't exist! Anyone fancy poppin g out to my house overseas for a jam? :)


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:33 am
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Yeah sure. I'll be there for breakfast. You can play my hotrod and home built clapton whist i empty your food store :lol:

Please dont take that acoustic into a hifi comment of mine as law. It was a very broad description at best.

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Post subject: Breakfast!!!
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:36 am
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Breakfast it is! My wife is a great cook, so you wont have to travel as far as the larder!

CS 54's and they sound great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-At1b8AZPLo

What more evidence should I need! This is a great strat sound!
Check out the cat on the seat rofl!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cA07k5r ... re=related

SCNs sounding nice, but v. subdued
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tUvi14f ... re=related

I can find only limited examples of the other pickup sounds...everyone seems to use the neck, neck/middle. Any posts appreciated!

I contacted the local Fender store, they are going to do the work. The want to put a 1meg potentiometer 005-4032-000 in there. Anyone tell me what thats for?
Anyway I told them not to do the S1 switching, I hate complexity- I have that atm with the 3 flick switches I have at the moment. Is that a mistake do you think?


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:37 pm
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CAFeathers wrote:
fhopkins wrote:
CAFeathers wrote:
Bill is the designer of the SCN's and moved his shop from PA. to Corona, CA to work with Fender on designing other pickups for them.
His own line of pickups are fabulous and I would recommend them to anyone!!!!

Thanks Chet! That is what I thought I read about Bill. The man knows his stuff and has been doing it a long time, not a Johnny come lately!

Where did the OP go?


I have been doing business with Bill and Becky for years, dating back to their shop in PA. After they moved to CA my brother and I went down and they basically closed the shop for the day for us. It was amazing the things we found out that day. And before you ask I don't remember much of it.

Here is a pic from that day:

Image

That's me on the left, Bill in the middle, and Redmax61 on the right.


Coool!!!


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:05 pm
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I'd really suggest giving Kinman's a shot. Here's a link to their Strat pickups page:

http://www.kinman.com/Shop/strat.htm

Click on the "more info" button and check out the sound files.

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