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Post subject: RW/RP Middle Strat Pups?
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:36 am
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I find that I get more chime, glassy, quack tones from combining pickup outputs/models.

Some say that it is the reverse wound/reverse polarity middle Strat pups that cause that sound/tone. (in position 2 mainly).

I feel that rw/rp shouldn't make any difference tonewise, because it's not actually out of phase.

Discuss....opinions?.....

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Post subject: Re: RW/RP Middle Strat Pups?
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:23 am
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Miami Mike wrote:
I find that I get more chime, glassy, quack tones from combining pickup outputs/models.

Some say that it is the reverse wound/reverse polarity middle Strat pups that cause that sound/tone. (in position 2 mainly).

I feel that rw/rp shouldn't make any difference tonewise, because it's not actually out of phase.

Discuss....opinions?.....


Having a RWRP middle pickup just makes those combined pickup positions noiseless. I believe that combined pickup tone you like is caused by comb filtering. Because of their different positions, some frequencies of the vibrating strings get cancelled (in very narrow freq bands so that it looks like the teeth of a comb) while some get increased.

True, some people have called it out of phase, which is not correct.

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Post subject: Re: RW/RP Middle Strat Pups?
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:36 am
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orvilleowner wrote:
Miami Mike wrote:
I find that I get more chime, glassy, quack tones from combining pickup outputs/models.

Some say that it is the reverse wound/reverse polarity middle Strat pups that cause that sound/tone. (in position 2 mainly).

I feel that rw/rp shouldn't make any difference tonewise, because it's not actually out of phase.

Discuss....opinions?.....


Having a RWRP middle pickup just makes those combined pickup positions noiseless. I believe that combined pickup tone you like is caused by comb filtering. Because of their different positions, some frequencies of the vibrating strings get cancelled (in very narrow freq bands so that it looks like the teeth of a comb) while some get increased.

True, some people have called it out of phase, which is not correct.


It's possible to wire it out of phase (reversed) to get a different tone, but again, you're correct, but...I don't think that there is any comb filtering...I think it's rather the mixing of the various output ranges of separate single coil pups?

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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:06 am
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Check this out:

http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponse/

claiming the response of an individual pickup has a comb filtered pattern. (Googling will lead you to even more pages on the comb filtering.)

So mix two pickups at different locations along the string and it's even combier?!

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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:24 am
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A RW/RP Middle pickup does nothing more than make a Strat quieter in positions 2 and 4.
If I'm not mistaken it is RW/RP technology that they use to make Humbuckers.

To get the most from a guitar with pickups that go out of phase you really need more than one volume control. There is a noticeable drop in volume when you use out of phase pickups. If you roll off one of the volume controls slightly the volume level picks back up again.
Personally I love the sound of out of phase pickups and find them fun to play around with. I now have 2 guitars with out of phase pickups.

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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:01 am
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Quote:
There is a noticeable drop in volume when you use out of phase pickups. If you roll off one of the volume controls slightly the volume level picks back up again.


Thanks guys! I might try this, thanks, Chet. :wink: I've heard the drop in volume, but never tried to roll off the pots to get the level back up.

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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:05 am
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Miami Mike wrote:
Quote:
There is a noticeable drop in volume when you use out of phase pickups. If you roll off one of the volume controls slightly the volume level picks back up again.


Thanks guys! I might try this, thanks, Chet. :wink: I've heard the drop in volume, but never tried to roll off the pots to get the level back up.


Yeah, playing around with the volume controls will change the tone too!

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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:33 pm
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CAFeathers wrote:
Miami Mike wrote:
Quote:
There is a noticeable drop in volume when you use out of phase pickups. If you roll off one of the volume controls slightly the volume level picks back up again.


Thanks guys! I might try this, thanks, Chet. :wink: I've heard the drop in volume, but never tried to roll off the pots to get the level back up.


Yeah, playing around with the volume controls will change the tone too!


That's because you are altering the degree of how out of phase the two pickups are. Rolling off the pots unevenly will cause one pickup to be dominant. This dominant one begins to get its original frequencies (lows especially) and volume back as it is returns to phase with the rest of the circuit, lessining its interaction with the other pickup.

For those who have never heard two pickups out of phase, it is a hollow, nasally sound, rather trebly with little lows. This phase conflict zaps a good deal of frequencies from both pickups hence, a volume drop occurs too. An example of two pickups out of phase can be heard in the lead break in Aerosmith's, "Dude Looks Like A Lady".

I don't like a guitar whose circuit is humbucking in some positions and not in others. I find I have to set the amp to accommodate both, where neither sounds as good as they could if it was just one or the other.

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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:48 pm
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I have one of my Strats set up kinda unusual. When I installed a neck pickup in my Classic 50s Strat, I followed all the wiring instructions to the letter. For some reason, the #4 position(mid and neck) came out out of phase. As I prefer the #2 position for the famous Strat quack, Sultans of Swing tone, I left it. The out of phase tone is thin, treble-ey, and low volume, but I have always liked it.
I started wiring my Les Pauls that way, to get a more Strat-like single coil sound from my LPs for stage use. My 1974 LP Custom and my 2000 LP Standard have aftermarket bridge pickups, and I wired both of them so whn both pups are on, they are out of phase. It has such an un-Les Paul like sound, it adds to the guitars tonal range and versatility.


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