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Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:31 pm
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Wow, weird thread here. tennman316, with all due respect, I think you're misreading the tonality in makinson1's posts -- I certainly don't see anything worth gettin' any feathers ruffled over, if you know what I mean. In any case, let's get this one back on track so I don't have to lock the thread.

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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:16 am
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Once adequate relief has be achieved to stop all of the strings from buzzing, you can keep adding more until the guitar reaches a peak of tonality, depth, headroom, etc. It's difficult to describe the effect but you will hear it as a sound change somewhat like the sound an amp makes when the bias is tweaked on the output tubes.


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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:41 am
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Oh, and one more thing!! Sorry for not answering Jeff's question about the truss rod not doing anything when loosened. I'm going to guess and say "D" memory in the neck wood. The first three answers all sounded like there was something not quite right. I have to guess because I am no expert and I haven't had my coffee yet.

And the other question about the man overboard incident. Now I know this is a trick question because Jeff gave away the fact that he is a Navy Seal.
Rope or Towel. Hmm. Why would I trust a line thrown to me by the same guys who just threw me overboard? Towel! Don't they use a towel for waterboarding enemy combatant's who haven't been entirely honest and candid with their answers? Nope, neither! I would hope some one had taught me how to swim in the first place. Kinda metaphor for a Forum. A place where you learn how to swim before you get thrown into the deep end of the pool.


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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:00 am
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It's not the coffee. It's that you don't know what you're talking about.

This, for example:

"Once adequate relief has be achieved to stop all of the strings from buzzing, you can keep adding more until the guitar reaches a peak of tonality, depth, headroom, etc. It's difficult to describe the effect but you will hear it as a sound change somewhat like the sound an amp makes when the bias is tweaked on the output tubes."

That's completely meaningless. Adding relief doesn't change the sound of the guitar like changing the bias on an amp does... it only changes the way the guitar feels when you play it. And you don't just add relief listening for some tonal change that's not coming... too much relief makes a guitar feel stiff and hard to play. Like the story about cutting bone nuts from a human femur you bought for 2 bucks, you're just making this up.

"Kinda metaphor for a Forum. A place where you learn how to swim before you get thrown into the deep end of the pool."

If only. As this thread demonstrates, most online forums are incubators for misinformation. If you want the Forum to be a place where people learn something, then try this: when you don't know the answer, don't post.


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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:59 am
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This thread is just getting better every time :) Let's hope we can get Jeff and his guitar setup before Brad closes it.


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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:07 am
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Let's hope Jeff just does what he should have done in the first place, and

A) finds a decent tech in real life, and

B) goes the bookstore for a copy of Dan Erlewine's book. :D


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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:12 am
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I've done my own setup for quite some time now but I hear some many praising this book that I might just pick up a copy anyway.


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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:40 am
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I'm still stuck on one of the original problems. Loosening the nut doesn't seem to be working. I think that's a real problem. Does the adjusting nut feel right, or does it feel like it's free-wheeling. Is it possible that the end that screws into the neck is starting to back itself out? All things being equal, a rod with no tension on it should have quite a bit of relief.
As far as taking it to a "Real Tech" goes, you guys must live in Guitar heaven. Here in the Tampa Bay area, taking you valuable ax to a tech is like giving your ex-wife new credit cards.
It is obvious that Jeff is a man of above average intelligence and there is NOTHING about the luthier's art that he cannot learn as he has already demonstrated more knowledge than 98% of guitar players.


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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:27 pm
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SlapChop wrote:
It's not the coffee. It's that you don't know what you're talking about.

This, for example:

"Once adequate relief has be achieved to stop all of the strings from buzzing, you can keep adding more until the guitar reaches a peak of tonality, depth, headroom, etc. It's difficult to describe the effect but you will hear it as a sound change somewhat like the sound an amp makes when the bias is tweaked on the output tubes."

That's completely meaningless. Adding relief doesn't change the sound of the guitar like changing the bias on an amp does... it only changes the way the guitar feels when you play it. And you don't just add relief listening for some tonal change that's not coming... too much relief makes a guitar feel stiff and hard to play. Like the story about cutting bone nuts from a human femur you bought for 2 bucks, you're just making this up.

"Kinda metaphor for a Forum. A place where you learn how to swim before you get thrown into the deep end of the pool."

If only. As this thread demonstrates, most online forums are incubators for misinformation. If you want the Forum to be a place where people learn something, then try this: when you don't know the answer, don't post.


Sorry for not replying in a timely matter.
Are you saying that changing the tension on the neck doesn't affect the tone of the guitar? I mean some people say they can hear he differance between polyurethane paint and nitro laquer paint. So something like tension on the neck or body would also be audible. I think that wood has piezo-electric properties. Just like human femurs.


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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:17 pm
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makinson1 wrote:

Sorry for not replying in a timely matter.
Are you saying that changing the tension on the neck doesn't affect the tone of the guitar? I mean some people say they can hear he differance between polyurethane paint and nitro laquer paint. So something like tension on the neck or body would also be audible. I think that wood has piezo-electric properties. Just like human femurs.


This series is an eleborate gag, right? Like a form of trolling. i mean... it has to be.

Changing relief does not change neck tension... the tension is the same at pitch regardless. People who say they can hear the difference between nitro and poly are hearing with their eyes, which is something humans do (a documented scientific fact, unlike the difference between nitro and poly). Even a bright third grader would not imagine wood to have piezo-electric (or, for that matter, ANY electric) properties.

And you don't have a human femur. What you've got is an overactive imagination.


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Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:50 am
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SlapChop wrote:
makinson1 wrote:

Sorry for not replying in a timely matter.
Are you saying that changing the tension on the neck doesn't affect the tone of the guitar? I mean some people say they can hear he differance between polyurethane paint and nitro laquer paint. So something like tension on the neck or body would also be audible. I think that wood has piezo-electric properties. Just like human femurs.


This series is an eleborate gag, right? Like a form of trolling. i mean... it has to be.

Changing relief does not change neck tension... the tension is the same at pitch regardless. People who say they can hear the difference between nitro and poly are hearing with their eyes, which is something humans do (a documented scientific fact, unlike the difference between nitro and poly). Even a bright third grader would not imagine wood to have piezo-electric (or, for that matter, ANY electric) properties.

And you don't have a human femur. What you've got is an overactive imagination.


The author of this thread is correct and I humbly stand corrected. Changing the the tension on the truss rod does not exert force on the neck, bowing it upward as the nut is tightened, so it couldn't change timbre. As the author stated "the tension is the same at pitch regardless" even though the truss rod is being tightened.
Secondly, as noted, people who claim to hear differences in things like varnish and polymer coatings are delusional, just fooling themselves into thinking that what they make is superior to everybody elses instrument. Like Stradavarius, who's formula for French Polish varnish is still a secret.
Third, as was demonstrated by the author, Most bright third graders would not imagine that wood has piezo-electric properties, and I stand confident that Mr. Slapchop will provide us with the scientific proof that wood is a non-piezo substance. He would not make such claims without being able to support them with the reference material containing the Scientific Proof.
Later Dudes (and Dudesses), I must be off to exercise my overactive imagination!


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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:00 am
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makinson1 wrote:
Just went thru the same thing. First guy who said feller gauges. Must have. Just a drawer full of some basic machinists tool from eBay will make you feel like a pro and eliminate most of the tools seen in the Stew-Mac catalog. Then i was cruising Home Depot and something caught my eye. A stainless steal w.plastic handle kinda straight edge/squeege thing used to level out spackling compound on sheet rock. Stainless steel for $6 ! What have I got to lose? Took it home and checked it against my Starrett machinist's straight-edge. No daylight, good for less than 1/1000th.

BTW, cheap Chinese needle files from Harbor Freight for fretwork, bridge saddles, and nuts for a LOT less than Stew-Mac. Go to the local Funeral parlor that does cremations and they'll give away bone material for making your own nuts. I got some guy''s femur for $2 and can make hundreds of bone nuts for the price of a Big Mac.


You are kidding about the funeral parlor part - right? I've heard that buffalo bone was the best but haven't seen any running around. Guess that I could work with elk or moose bone from a local hunter, but some poor guy's remains from a funeral parlor? I don't think so. Unless it was from Hendrix or someone and included a note giving his blessing.


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Post subject: All Seriousness aside . . .
Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:08 am
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Stew-mac sells bone nuts so cheap you have to wonder where they're getting thier's from :D
Getting bone from a mortuary may not be illegal (the law only prohibits the selling of "human body parts"). it is certainly in poor taste. . .
Then there is the problem of drying and curing the bone prior to cutting.
It is interesting that guitar players prefer bone where as bass players often prefer brass nuts. (No jokes please!)


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Post subject: Bad to the bone??
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:16 am
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lol The femur thing is so gross, but so brilliantly frugal all at the same time :P
And to clarify something for those of us who aren't so automotively inclined, a feeler gauge is... what? It's not just the tire pressure thing, is it??


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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:59 am
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Just to interject here

Tenneman I've just made 2 neck straightedges out of a 39" aluminium ruler that cost me £3.50, far better than stewmac's price but not as high quality workmanship or metal. It does the job just as well though. I put my guitar flat cut marked the ruler from the nut to the end of the neck and cut it off with a hacksaw. I then placed the ruler ontop of the frets, marked where either side of each landed. Drilled a 4mm hole inbetween the 2 marks for each fret and then sawed up to the hole. A bit of smoothing with a small file and theres your neck straightedge. The other side of it (flat uncut) can be used as a fret straightedge.

Right carry on winding each other up if you like.

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