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Post subject: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:18 pm
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Hi!

A while ago, I had a problem with my middle pickup. So I sent it to the shop I ordered it from to get it changed. I got the guitar back, and the middle pickup is now working perfectly fine. But something wrong have happened in the process, it seems. Now the 2. and the 4. position sounds horrible. The sound is very thin and strange, all the bass is gone. The three other positions sounds just like they should, though, so I do not find it likely that the pickups are damaged.

I am not very experienced with wiring, but compered to various wiring diagrams found online, I can't find anything seriously wrong with the wiring. Do anyone know what the problem could be here, and how can it be fixed? I really would prefer to not send the guitar away again...

Any suggestions is much appreciated!
Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:06 pm
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Sounds like the replacement pickup was wired reversed.
The middle pickup would normally be reverse-wind-reverse-polarity.
Pop the pickguard and confirm that the middle pickup has a yellow wire, and that the yellow wire goes to the 5-way.

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Post subject: Re: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:27 am
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As said, the signal from the middle pickup is out of phase with the signals from the neck and bridge pickups.

Where you connected the pickup to the switch and pot -- reverse those connections.

Fender has occasionally screwed up connecting the wires to the pickup, so the colors may be reversed. It's also possible the store screwed up and sent you the wrong replacement pickup.

After you reverse the connections, the thin, no bass sound in 2 & 4 will be gone.

But positions 2 & 4 may or may not be noise cancelling.

And if they sent you the wrong pickup, the "quack" in 2 & 4 may be different than it was with the original pickup. May be better, may be worse.


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Post subject: Re: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:44 am
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Sorry, early morning and I'm groggy.

Reread your post and realized you didn't remove the pickup yourself, send it off for exchange, then install the replacement.

You sent the whole guitar in and the shop did the replacement.
------------------
They did a shoddy job. They should have plugged it in and listened to all 5 positions before letting it leave the shop.

That poor quality of work makes me think it's very possible they just grabbed some random pickup and slapped it into your guitar.

(Sometimes when customers bring in guitars to have the pickups upgraded they don't want the stock pickups back, so the shop eventually ends up with a box full of assorted used pickups.)

I would be very hesitant to let that shop work on my guitar again. If the shop gave you a receipt/work order for replacing the pickup and there's another Fender Warranty Service shop you could go to, I'd go to the other shop.

(If they didn't give you a receipt you're stuck going back to them. A different shop will have no way to know if you modified your guitar yourself and voided the warranty.)


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Post subject: Re: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:16 am
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Thank you for your replays! :)

I had a closer look at the receipt I got from the shop, and it appears as if they actually did not change the middle pickup. According to the receipt, all they did was to re-magnetize the pickup. Have never heard about that possibility before. Did they have to disconnect the pickup to do that?

Yes, as mentioned, very careless by the shop not to check this before they sent the guitar back...

I think I'm going to try to reverse those connections, as you instructed. If I'm not able to make it work, I'll probably have find another shop to get some help.


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Post subject: Re: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:24 pm
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Degaussing and re-gaussing the pickup can certainly be done, but with the middle pickup being RWRP, they may have done it improperly and remagnetized it the same way they would have a neck or bridge.

Stock pickups are so inexpensive I'm surprised they took this option.

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Post subject: Re: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:08 am
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If it's the same pickup and remagnetized 'the wrong way' as CB wrote, it's now reverse wound/same polarity (in relation to the other pickups).

As far as I understand it (no wiring guru, though...), the "reversing of wires" you're going to do
would correct the out-of-phase/thin-sound problem,
but the original RWRP hum canceling in positions 2&4 would be lost.

I'd contact the shop, and either let them correct the problems (I'd also prefer a new pickup to a remagnetized old one) or at least to get all your money back.

Edit, and a bit off topic:
strayedstrater wrote:
I would be very hesitant to let that shop work on my guitar again.

In general, not limited to the case in this topic: I have a different view.
Everyone makes mistakes (remember the Mercedes A-model capsizing in tight curves - or the planned future of the Jazzmaster vs. reality..?) , but I think the true value/quality of any business company is how they handle things after that. Sort of, I believe in second chances... :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:19 pm
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Fair enough, and certainly worth contacting the shop to see how they want to handle it. Indeed, everyone makes mistakes.

But this is sort of a "third chance". They screwed up the repair. Oops, anyone can make a mistake.

But then they returned the guitar without testing it properly. (They may have plugged it in and checked position 3, but they didn't bother flicking the switch to 2&4.)

Pretty egregious IMO.
---------------
I'm very curious about why the pickup needed to be remagnetized. That's a very unusual problem.

Did the middle pickup work ok when you first got the guitar, and then got weak sounding?

Or was it weak when you first got the guitar? Or not work at all when you first got it?


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Post subject: Re: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:44 am
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In general, contacting the (seller/repair shop/whatever) will a) inform them they made a mistake, and b) open the chance of getting it fixed - or at least getting a refund if/when one doesn't want to let them try again.

In this case, you're right about the double fault - maybe even triple... That is, I'm most surprised about the remag option they chose - I'd think it would be the proper way to go only if it's explicitly specified - or if an instrument comes with a "fix it as cheap (/fast) as possible" instructions.

But stokand95, let us know about the outcome. I'm confident we'll have a happy ending. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:41 pm
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The pickup worked just fine for about two years after I bought the guitar. Then, when using the middle pickup, the volume of the G- and B-string started to fade away, while all the other strings sounded normal. It gradually got worse. This also affected the 2. and 4. position, but was most noticeable in the 3. position.

As I live in a quite rural area in Norway, certified Fender distributors are not very common. So I went to the closest Fender dealer to where I live with the defect pickup, and they made contact with Fender Scandinavia. They answered that if I wanted the warranty to cover the pickup exchange, I had to send it by mail to the shop I ordered the guitar from, witch is like 900 miles away, to get the job done there. So I sent it, you know the rest of the story...

So, by reading your posts, I understand that the best option here would be to get a brand new pickup. By reversing the connections, I will not get a perfect result. It also makes sense to contact the shop before doing anything myself, risking to screw up and make the warranty invalid. It would also be right to give the shop a chance to correct their mistake. After all it is one of Norway's most respected music instrument distributors, so they should have competent people.

Thank you all for your help, I will let you know how it all ends :)


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Post subject: Re: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:50 pm
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stokand95 wrote:
The pickup worked just fine for about two years after I bought the guitar. Then, when using the middle pickup, the volume of the G- and B-string started to fade away, while all the other strings sounded normal. It gradually got worse. This also affected the 2. and 4. position, but was most noticeable in the 3. position.

As I live in a quite rural area in Norway, certified Fender distributors are not very common. So I went to the closest Fender dealer to where I live with the defect pickup, and they made contact with Fender Scandinavia. They answered that if I wanted the warranty to cover the pickup exchange, I had to send it by mail to the shop I ordered the guitar from, witch is like 900 miles away, to get the job done there. So I sent it, you know the rest of the story...

So, by reading your posts, I understand that the best option here would be to get a brand new pickup. By reversing the connections, I will not get a perfect result. It also makes sense to contact the shop before doing anything myself, risking to screw up and make the warranty invalid. It would also be right to give the shop a chance to correct their mistake. After all it is one of Norway's most respected music instrument distributors, so they should have competent people.

Thank you all for your help, I will let you know how it all ends :)


Yes Stokand95, I completely agree with your summary of what to do next.
--------------------
The way the pickup failed is very interesting. And unusual.

It does seem like the G and B magnets got weak.

Among permanent magnets, Alnico 5 is relatively the easiest to demagnetize. High heat, extreme impact, "magnetically shorting" against another strong magnet, being in the presence of an extremely strong magnetic field.

Length vs width of an Alnico V magnet can allow it to magnetically short against itself. And Fender got the dimensions a little wrong, especially for the shorter magnets. But just a little wrong -- the magnets take decades to lose a noticeable amount of strength. (And that slight loss can actually sound good -- that's why Duncan intentionally doesn't charge the Antiquity magnets fully, to replicate that slight loss from age.)

Had the magnets been weak from the start, that would be easily explained by a manufacturing error.

But starting as fully charged, and then in a matter of months having just two of them discharge? That's freaky.


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Post subject: Re: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 3:13 pm
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Hello again!

I promised I'd let you know the outcome.
I contacted the same shop again, and they agreed to change the middle pickup with a brand new Fat 50, without any additional costs for me. So I sent the guitar to them again, and I got it back a few days ago. Luckily, the guitar now sounds good as new again :D


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Post subject: Re: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:23 pm
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Great news! I'm glad it worked out.

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Post subject: Re: Problem with Fat 50's
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:29 pm
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Love happy endings.
Now play on, play LOUD.


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