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Post subject: Strange rattle on high E string - brand new Fender CD140SCE
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:14 pm
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I have a CD140SCE with a high E string that just won't play cleanly. I don't know whether to call it a rattle or a fret buzz, but it just isn't sounding right (have a listen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6EwQuvJbeg). You can hear slight evidence of it in the picking section, but majorly in the strumming section.

I carefully measured everything to check whether it had a good general setup and found everything to be OK (high E had 0.5mm action at 1st fret, 2.2mm action at 12th fret, and 0.25mm neck relief at 7th fret), I then tried a higher bridge to no avail and then put the old bridge back in and changed the strings to quality Martin phosphur bronze ones.

I've taken it to two guitar stores today to see what they thought - the first store (the one I bought the guitar from) added a little more relief to the neck and said "that sound is just the normal acoustic sound", and the second store said the guitar felt fine to them to play and that since the string didn't buzz during testing of individually plucked notes on all frets, there's nothing wrong with the guitar. Now they're experts and I'm just a beginner guitarist so I didn't feel I could argue the point with them any further, but I have a good ear and owned another CD140 SCE before this that I am adamant played really cleanly in comparison.

Has anyone else had a similar sounding Fender acoustic to mine and worked out how to fix the rattle sound? (or had it magically disappear after a professional luthier setup).

Cheers


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Post subject: Re: Strange rattle on high E string - brand new Fender CD140
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:15 am
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Hello macgyver1macgyver,

I've had a similar problem on two different guitars and haven't been able to find a solution yet. I also thought that maybe it was the relief, but I see that you have tried that. I raised the nut, but that didn't solve it either. For me I've noticed it more when strumming rather than picking. I checked for high frets but didn't find any. I also checked all of my hardware to make sure that something wasn't loose, but that wasn't it either. I know I wasn't of any help, but your not the only one experiencing this problem.


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Post subject: Re: Strange rattle on high E string - brand new Fender CD140
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:08 am
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Hello macgyver1macgyver,
Sounds like you've made a good run at identifying your mystery buzz/rattle/gremlin fart. I've just had a listen to your video, it sounds like a high-pitched kind of sound that your hearing. You make want to ensure that all of the tuners are snug on the headstock. You'll notice that each tuner shaft has a hex nut at its base make sure those aren't loose. Each tuner key will also have a screw on the end, make sure they're not loose.

If that doesn't solve the problem you may want to try playing the high E in a way that induces the noise and while playing it continuously try placing your hand firmly on different parts of the guitar soundboard (behind the bridge, lower bout on the highside, upper bout etc.) What you'll be listening for is a muffling of the noise. This may indicate the culprit is a loose brace on the inside.

Also it may be that some leg the wiring harness from pick-up to pre-amp to endpin jack is rattling against the body at that specific frequency.

You may also want to get a good mirror and a flashlight and have a good look around in the body for loose braces unsecured wires etc.

Good luck!

_________________
Zach

What I play:
Larrivee OM-03MH
2011 Fender CD-220SCE
1979 or '80 Fender F-35 (date has been hard to pin down)
Samick Greg Bennett D-2


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Post subject: Re: Strange rattle on high E string - brand new Fender CD140
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:06 pm
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Cheers guys

I've changed the strings again so I took the opportunity to look inside the body and tighten the tuners, plus added some lubrication to the nut slots before new strings went in - I couldn't find the culprit. I called a local luthier to see if he'd look at it, but he said he now specialises in violins only. His suggestion was to check if there was a loose fret and advised me that the store I bought the guitar from should fix it for me (the same store that has already decided the guitar is fine!).

Well, I can say that I have improved things slightly by fiddling with the setup some more - I sanded the bridge lower so there is now 2.5mm 12th fret clearance on the low E and 1.9mm on high E, and I added a little more than normal neck relief, plus I dragged an old A string over the bridge where the E string goes to score a seat in the bridge (I theorised that the string might be a little less 'pingy' if it wasn't sitting on such a sharp ridge). The lower action has made the guitar easier to play and fret cleanly. I still get plenty of rattle from the high E string under struming conditions, but it doesn't stand out so much with the tone of the new strings, especially when strumming hard. I'll have to look for another luthier to get an expert opinion - I'll let you know if the problem can be found.

I just know I'm going to keep obsessing about this problem if it can't be cured so I'm going to start saving up for another guitar that I'll buy off a shop floor after trying it out extensively first. I play an obscure instrument called 'uilleann pipes' (Irish bagpipes) that had me going to what I refer to as 'The Dark Side' while I learnt to make my own reeds and obsessed over creating the perfect one.

Thanks for your interest and support of my plight. I hope your problem gets sorted Rix11.

Oh, on a sidenote, I highly recommend the strings I've got on the guitar now - they're Martin & Co. bronze SP 80/20 'Fingerstyle' light gauge strings, which have a thinner steel core, but thicker winding to end up at the correct gauge.

All the best


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Post subject: Re: Strange rattle on high E string - brand new Fender CD140
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:54 pm
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Hi again.

I thought I would follow-up on this conversation thread that I started. The problem is solved - I got a new guitar!

I have traded-in the CD140SCE to the shop that I bought it from and upgraded to the CA360SCE. The shop was kind enough to give me $360 for the old one, which was only $40 less than I paid for it, and I had put a small dent in the top of it too! The new guitar has a much nicer tone - I did lots of direct comparisons between the old 140 and the new 360 in the shop, playing the same tunes with the same picks, plus various capo positions and the CA360SCE blew me away with how much nicer it sounded. I contemplated the CD220SCE for a brief moment too - it was a very attractive guitar, but sounded almost identical in tone to the 140 so it lost it's appeal after I had tried the 360.

There are not many videos of the CA360SCE on YouTube so I plan to make a video to give a guided tour around the guitar to show it off and also demonstrate the sound to anyone who wants to consider getting one. I will just give myself a few days to get to know my new guitar and maybe play with the setup a little first.


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