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Post subject: Our Squier family
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:51 pm
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Here are some pix of our Squiers starting with our JV which was purchased new in Feb of 1984 at Cosmo Music. It sat in it's case untouched until a couple of years ago when my wife decided she wanted to pick up the guitar again after 29 years so it is all original except for the strings.

A number of friends have commented that it feels different and I suspect it is because it has a 7.25 radius instead of the more common 9.5. I started to wonder what was going on a year ago when my wife kept telling me that my IOS Strat felt different though it looked nearly identical. Finally figured it out the other day when I was researching necks on Squier II's.

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Wife wanted new strings and some repair work to the 5 way switch so was finally able to pull it apart and have a look under the pick guard.

The switch was having some contact issues my original plan was to hit it with some contact cleaner but instead I just used some 800 grit wet/dry sandpaper and buffed the contacts. Also very gently pushed a couple down and now it's 100%. The darn thing looked brand new.

It was ridiculously clean under there, I didn't even bother blowing out what little sawdust was in the routes since I didn't want to take away any of it's originality! :mrgreen:

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Last edited by Niteshooter on Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Our Squier family
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:17 pm
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The IOS Squier Strat wasn't on the market very long, I think about a year or just under and was originally available only through the Apple Store but just before they all disappeared we got a handful in a couple of local stores.

What was cool was that it has a USB to IOS connection at the bottom though in a bad spot since a lot of the special cables got wrecked when you set the guitar down on it. Best fix is to get a 90 mini USB to female USB adaptor. Then you can use a standard USB to IOS cable instead of the special and hard to find mini USB to IOS cable that comes with the guitar. I should also mention that this cable is for the older generation IOS devices and not newer one's such as iPhone 5's and up which use a new smaller connector.

The Fender version has the connector just off to the side so it is less prone to get damaged and has a cable that supports the new version of Apple connector.

There is also a headphone jack but it needs to have USB power sadly not stand alone.

It only came in the 3 colour sunburst and HSS configuration. One quick way to spot an IOS Strat other than the USB connections is the small rectangular plate below the main cover on the back, which allows access to the USB electronics.

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Post subject: Re: Our Squier family
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:50 am
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Squier II Strat. Found this one on Kijiji a while ago back when I was trying to figure out what made the JV feel different so went off on a tangent looking at guitars with Japanese built necks. I started reading about these Squier II's and that they might have had some Japanese parts though that seems to be a bit of a mystery sort of like the JV Strats.

Still couldn't resist as the price was right. Plus I liked the look, no pick guard. I do prefer a more transparent finish but this guitar body is made out of as Fender called it laminate. Still the neck was the selling feature for me, though it turned out to be a different radius then the JV.

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Some photos of the electronics, neck and pocket. Most certainly a laminate body but oddly it does not feel any heavier than our solid wood Squier Strats and sounds terrific.

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Found this on the forum by Iomitus which is probably the best explanation I have seen regarding the use of plywood/laminates. I'd like to add that I notice the plywood bodies in my collection specifically the Epiphone 'Batwing'Strat has serious finish cracking while the Squier Mini has two hairline finish cracks at the neck though not in the neck pocket so my guess is finish only. My best guess is that the finish is more heavily applied to disguise the use of laminated wood and is more prone to cracking. 'Natural' finish Epi's and some Squiers I have seen have black paint where the body is bevelled at the bottom left corner (right handed) and my understanding is that this is to hide the fact that the body is laminate since the venired top does not run down the bevel.

Just to add, a lot of low and mid priced acoustic guitars are made of laminates albeit much thinner then the solidbody electrics we are talking about here...

lomitus wrote:
oneal lane wrote:
I was at a local pawn shop and the manager is a guitar nut, like me, he called my attention to a battered Korean Squire II. The guitar had a plywood body and somewhat different electronics set up than a standard strat or current squire strat. The guitar was junk, however his purpose was to point out the beautiful maple neck, as pretty as any american standard of the shelf. I gave him the $70.00, but probaply should have worked him down a bit. It had the standard junk squire tuners, currently found on the Bullet series. I plan to install some Fender (Japanese made) vintage tuners and get a nice body for it.

It was the mis-match of the century. A plywood body and this wonderful maple neck.


I know this thread is over a month old now but I'm gonna toss my $.02 worth in here anyways. I haven't read through all of the other posts in detail, so please forgive me if I add anything terribly redundant here. Also these are, as always, just my own personal opinions and should only be taken as such. That said, I would like to address a few of the comment in this thread for the benefit of others who may read this who have less experience with such matters so they don't end up getting the wrong impression on some of this stuff...


morecowbell wrote:
Also, according to Fender customer service, Fender has never marketed any guitar with a plywood body. If you are looking in the body pockets for the pots and pickups, you will see what looks like layers. The routers can't cut deep enough in one pass, so they have to make a series of passes.


First and foremost, I would have to take this statement as being a half truth. No..."Fender" has probably never marketed a guitar with a laminate/plywood body but Squier most -certainly- has. I'm sorry my friend but I have cut a few bodies in my life and I've certainly done enough wood working with a router to -KNOW- the difference between router marks and plywood. Even if that weren't the case, that would simply NOT explain why nicer Fender bodies tend to have "clean" routing in the body cavities while lower end Squiers do not. Even poor tooling and equipment would not explain this (trust me here...I've used PLENTY of dull router bits in my day...again I -do- very much know the difference).

Very seriously...if you doubt that at all get yourself a router (you can often find a decent used one at a flee market for under $40) and a two pieces of scrap wood...one laminate and one hardwood such as alder, ash or even poplar or basswood. Cut in to both using the router, making multiple passes as you say and then LOOK at the two pieces of wood...even painted it's very easy to spot the difference. Again, no, Fender has probably never used a laminate on any Fender branded guitars but Squier most certainly has without a doubt.

JerseyJettFan wrote:
NOT "plywood", IT's made of "LAMINATED HARDWOOD" ! ! ! !

I have a '90 Squier II Stratocaster HSS made of LAMINATED HARDWOOD (approx 13 layers) , it has "sustain for days" and "superb vintage Fender tone". This model performs just as well though I think better than the Indonesian made Deluxe Strat I just sold or the made in Mexico and China Squiers.

The LAMINATED HARDWOOD bodies are derided UNFAIRLY !!

They are often overlooked, highly under-rated and superior in construction to other Squier guitars. If you find one cheap, GRAB IT !!! You won't regret it for a moment.


This too is a bit of a mis-leading statement. First and foremost, plywood -is- most certainly "laminated wood". Both simply mean that multiple layers of wood were glued together to create a thicker piece of wood (although certainly in regards to guitars there are many variations on this...at least with nicer instruments). I think the confusion that some folks get over this issue is in regards to the quality of the woods used to create the laminate/ply.

Let's look at some nicer, high end basses for example. Even if you don't actually play bass, I'm sure that most folks who have ever been in to some place like guitar center has seen a bass (or perhaps even a guitar) that has a stained natural finish where you can clearly see that different colors of wood were used to create the body (or in some cases even the neck). In fact if you've never seen something like this, order yourself a Carvin catalog as Carvin tends to do this a lot with some of their pricier bass's. For example, Carvin has a bass in their current line up that has a Walnut body with a figured Claro Walnut top and an Alder "core" (the LB80W priced at $1449 direct). In cases such as this you will commonly see some of the more exotic (and more expensive) woods such as Walnut, Bubinga, Zebra wood, etc., used in combination with other more traditional woods. While I'm sure this does indeed affect the sound/tone of a given instrument (particularly in regards to Bubinga), it's mostly done for aesthetic appeal more than anything else. More commonly, take a look at a great many of the Les Pauls out there...mahogany body with maple or flame maple "caps"...this two certainly qualifies as a "laminate".

Now to be perfectly blunt here, this is NOT the same as even a "hardwood laminate" used in a lower end Squier guitar. No...we're not talking about "construction grade" plywood as your comments seem to suggest in regards to differentiating plywood from laminates. That said however, the "laminates" typically used in lower cost instruments are NOT truly high quality, instrument grade pieces of wood either. The ply/lams used in Squiers -are- typically better than construction grade but they're typically still a much lower quality piece of "wood". Most of the wood used to create those laminates aren't really high quality to begin with...otherwise these types of laminate bodies would be CONSIDERABLY more expensive and as such they wouldn't be able to sell something like a Squier Bullet for around the $100 price point (even if it's made in China or elsewhere). Further, these pieces of ply/lam don't usually have any where near the same attention to detail in regards to aligning the grains, adhesives/bonding processes, etc., etc.. From time to time you may get one that's really not too bad at all but they are, more often than not, not nearly as resonant as even a "good" laminate let alone solid pieces of wood and...well...to be perfectly frank they don't usually sound nearly as good because of it.

Here's an interesting little experiment... Get yourself a few pieces of hardwood and a couple of pieces of various quality laminate/ply and do the "knock test". Rap on the pieces of wood with your knuckles and listen to the wood. Even an inexperience person can usually hear tonal differences between something such as Alder, Mahogany, Maple and Ash. Then rap on the ply/laminate...most of the time the wood just sounds completely "dead". I can't really go in to all the considerations as far as the tonal characteristics of wood here (that's a book in itself) but very simply, you can't create the same type of "sound" by using multiple pieces...often as many as 8 or 10 or more thin layers, of inexpensive woods...you end up hearing more "glue" than wood.

Now with all of that said, I will add that not all laminates are in fact created equal. I have a mid-80's New Jersey Kramer for example that has the proverbial plywood body and she's held up very very well over the years and does in fact sound pretty decent. There's no signs of cracking near the neck joint, no problems with the finish, etc.. Again however, more often than not as an inexpensive laminate body ages, it will usually develop some problems of this nature...cracking at the neck joint being perhaps the most prominent. I've seen -MANY- inexpensive bodies with this problem (particularly Cort's for some reason) where the cracking from the laminate separating was soooooo bad that the guitar just wasn't even playable because the neck was no longer stable in the neck pocket. I have also seen...although not nearly as frequently...inexpensive laminated guitar bodies that quiet honestly couldn't even be considered as "construction grade" plywood...a very old department store brand called "Rhythmline" certainly comes to mind.

I'm not saying that -all- inexpensive laminated bodies are "bad"...there are in fact some very good ones out there, but these are usually the exception and not the rule. As such, I would -NEVER- go out of my way to buy a body made from a laminate. -If- the body had some usable parts...such as in the OP's case where the neck was really nice (and $70 is a fair price on that BTW...you could pay nearly that much for a decent neck on Ebay), then yes...I might buy the whole guitar for the parts but I would most likely either discard the body or simply use it as scrap or a practice piece or something (if you're trying to learn refinishing for example, cheap lam/ply bodies are wonderful to make all your learning mistakes on!).

I have a Korean made Squier body downstairs...I had gotten the guitar in trade for a couple of pedals I was no longer using. This one actually had Sperzel tuners installed (alone worth the price of the pedals I traded) and the neck was pretty decent. I used the neck on another body (which I recently traded for an Ovation) but I can tell you for a fact that body -IS- a cheap laminate...a really cheap one. Maybe I'll use it some day to build a guitar to smash on stage during a Who tribute but I can't really see using it for -anything- else.

Ultimately if someone has an inexpensive Squier (or other brand) with a laminate body and he/she/it/them enjoys playing it, that's all that really matters...if it makes you happy, that's really the only important thing, but personally unless the price was right for the other parts on it, it's not something that I would ever go out of my way for.

Again just my own personal opinions...I hope that someone finds them useful.

Peace,
Jim


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Other then the tuners, the other weak link is the tremolo block which was made out of zinc and is prone to disintegrating! Mine is showing a lot of cracks so I have ordered a couple of blocks from China. There was someone on here looking to replace with the same crumbly blocks so when I get these new one's I'll put an update here.

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Last edited by Niteshooter on Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:14 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Our Squier family
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:37 am
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Those darn 'bullet' tuners.

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I think they seem to be worse on the Squier Mini's but several other Squiers come with them. They actually aren't that bad once you do a few tweaks to them but out of the box they can be pretty horrid.

Some of the old Ephiphone Strat knockoffs also used these exact same tuners and that gave me a clue to who the manufacturer was after taking apart an Epiphone Batwing. Turns out these are made by the Jin Ho Music Company, I just checked to see about the link to the page with these tuners on it but their server (http://www.jinhomusic.com) is down. Sometimes these parts turn up on eBay. The photo above and below are of the Jin Ho tuners that were in the Epiphone.

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The real reason these tuners can feel like crap is because the tabs holding the tuning peg/gear shaft in place can be bent all over the place. On the Squier Mini I have I discovered most of these tabs were twisted so that the tip of the tab was grinding against the side of the slot that this tab is supposed to ride in.

The fix was to re-align these tabs plus squeeze them down slightly so that there was less play in the mechanism.

If you look at the tuners from that Squier II, you can see how straight these tabs were and it made a world of difference on smoothness. I went back to the mini and pulled apart all of it's tuners and it helped. Though not perfect it was a lot better, my only thought was that that wacky bending process added more friction to the part and prevented the tuner from shifting but honestly I have not noticed that my fix has made things worse but that might be because I also crimped down on that tab to reduce up and down play. These tabs look really brittle so I wouldn't be reefing around on them too much though!

I've been experimenting around with lubricants as well. So far 3in1 electric motor oil is working though I will try something a like a teflon based oil at some point. Granted some sort of nylon or teflon bushings would probably be the best fix if possible.

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The tuners in the Epi were misaligned as badly as the one's in the mini, also note the sawdust in the tuners! Used my compressor to blow out all the crud, I was surprised by the amount of sawdust in the neck pockets of some of the guitars I have looked at.

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It looks like the Jin Ho website is gone, they appear to have lost their domain name. So here are some screen grabs I took a while ago of all the trapezoid style tuners they were listing at the time. Note the different styles of button and colours. These sometimes turn up on eBay but I can't say I've seen them that often, some eBay sellers do list the Bullet tuners from Fender.

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Last edited by Niteshooter on Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Our Squier family
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:54 pm
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Squier Mini Player

Picked this up used on a whim. I like the small Squiers a lot and when I saw the tuners it caught my fancy. If I lived in the States that 2 tone Sunburst limited edition at Austin Bazaar would be mine! :mrgreen: They don't ship to Canada.

How does it's built in speaker and amp sound? Ok but certainly not earth shattering, the volume cranked up with no distortion (tone) is pretty weak, with the tone cranked up the volume increases as does the distortion… a player for the couch, yup. For a room full of people nope.

The big deal for me was the neck and head with standard single pin Squier tuners, the one's found on many of the Affinity guitars which are pretty decent. If you want to get fancy you can easily swap these out for standard Fender two pin tuners by punching an additional pair of holes in the headstock. The easy way is to put in the new tuners, tighten them down just enough to get them to mark their positions in the wood then drill. The fast way to align the tuners is to line them up with a solid straight edge and tighten to mark the position of the holes. I put my bit into an original hole and put a piece of tape to mark the depth on the bit. The original hole will be hidden by the new tuners.

This mini only has a single humbucker since the speaker takes up a fair bit of real-estate on the front. I started to take apart the neck but it was such a tight fit in the pocket I didn't want to force the issue and cause finish cracks or worse have a heck of a time getting it back together.

The back has several covers, there is a perforated cover over the speaker, a flip out cover over the 9 volt battery and a kidney shaped cover over the electronics. The amplifier circuit is on a small rectangular board hiding under that chunk of foam which also has the connectors, one for 9v external power, a standard mono 1/4" jack and a mini headphone jack which gives audio on the left and right channels and is powered by the guitar so it can be truly stand alone and a great practice/travel guitar.

To me the speaker is ok, decent range though I've read posts about folks thinking of changing it but have not seen any results. I suspect the weak link is the amplifier circuit but then I don't think there is a lot more you can coax out of this setup given the type of power available from the 9volt battery. I suspect replacing the speaker with something 'better' will just tax the already weak amp circuit and may wind up sounding worse and not fit.

Some light strings and a full setup and it's pretty neat, wife does call it ugly but then I guess I've always been a fan of the underdogs out there…

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Last edited by Niteshooter on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Our Squier family
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:09 am
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Squier Mini

I bought this guitar as part of a package deal. I was actually after the Traynor Studio Mate amp that was in the package and the mini came along for the ride.

It was missing the high E string (seems common with cheap used guitars) and a set screw for one of the bridges. Otherwise in good cosmetic shape and I really like the colour. :mrgreen:

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The tuners were stiff so I pulled each one apart and cleaned and lubricated them. I also re-aligned the two tabs holding the geared shaft with the key on the end so that each had no play and was smooth operating. I was using a small Vise grip for this but found a much better 'channel' lock style Vise grip at Lowe's the other day. The trick is to make the tabs as straight and perpendicular to the base of the tuner as possible. Then lightly crimp down the tab so that the geared shaft has very little up/down play.

The other option would be to replace them with better tuners such as the Kluson's which would require some drilling though the end result looks pretty tidy with only one exposed hole. Since this isn't a really expensive guitar to start with I was happy just readjusting the tuners themselves. I had used 3in1 electric motor oil but now that I'm thinking about it maybe I should have tried Syl Glyde which is the high temperature grease I use when I lube up the rotor pins on our cars…..

Though I think the best thing is to just rebend the tabs so that everything is straight and non binding.

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Post subject: Re: Our Squier family
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:12 am
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Affinity Telecaster

If there is one thing that turns my crank, it's the lovely wood grain natural finish on some guitars. Squier actually do a pretty amazing job considering the price point and when I saw this 'Butterscotch' Tele I fell in love. This is an under $200 guitar brand new, but after looking closely you can see where they cut corners.

On the made in China Affinities and Bullet's I've been noticing a lot of corrosion on the strings and frets especially down around the 20-21st frets. I have yet to come across this on the Indonesian, Korean and Japanese made Squiers so I have to wonder if this is the result of using ultra cheap fret wire.

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Even though the tuners were pretty good I decided to swap them out for a set from Fender that I got dirt cheap on Kijiji. Truth be told they actually don't feel any different though. Basically all that was required was the removal of the old tuners, then marking with the new one's which was basically install them in the old spots. Take a solid straight edge and square up each tuner to this and then lightly tighten them down until they leave a indentation in the head. Then take a drill bit the same size as the the old hole's and put it in an original hole. I then take a small piece of tape and mark the spot on the drill bit where it bottoms in the hole. That gives me the exact depth I need to be at and should help prevent me drilling through the face of the headstock!

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The new tuners drop right in with no other modifications.

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The only other modification so far was a swap to Powered by Lace pickups, these are the one's found cheap out of China on eBay. They give the Tele just a wee bit more twang and a simple mod. I have been toying with the idea of adding a Bigsby B50 kit but am a bit remiss at wrecking such a nice piece of wood. I have been looking at used Tele's though.

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Last edited by Niteshooter on Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Our Squier family
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:26 am
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And finally, a group shot of everyone so far…. :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Our Squier family
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:35 pm
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Nice group shot, really like the looks of that "white" Squier ll.


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Post subject: Re: Our Squier family
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:46 am
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Nice to see such a devoted Squier owner :wink:

Regarding the Tele I have to wonder at the need for replacing the tuners if you are lucky enough to have a factory set that keeps tune when you consider the lack of through body stringing. I would imagine that the difference in sound would be marginal? Better to upgrade the pups if they're not to your liking surely? I haven't come across the corrosion issues you mention but I would live with it if that didn't impact on performance. Nothing wrong with a little distressing :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Our Squier family
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:59 am
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WI KISSfan wrote:
Nice group shot, really like the looks of that "white" Squier ll.


Thanks! I like the look of the Squier II as well, we don't see many of them up here and one popped up on kijiji and sat around for a couple of weeks giving me time to talk myself into it! :D Glad I did, quite like the neck and the body isn't bad has quite the sustain.


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Post subject: Re: Our Squier family
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:29 am
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Dalwhat wrote:
Nice to see such a devoted Squier owner :wink:

Regarding the Tele I have to wonder at the need for replacing the tuners if you are lucky enough to have a factory set that keeps tune when you consider the lack of through body stringing. I would imagine that the difference in sound would be marginal? Better to upgrade the pups if they're not to your liking surely? I haven't come across the corrosion issues you mention but I would live with it if that didn't impact on performance. Nothing wrong with a little distressing :wink:


Thanks! Have to confess that I'm not big on changing things around unless it's a repair or big improvement but do like to take things apart to see how they work.

I got two sets of Fender tuners for next to nothing, was actually for the Squier Mini to replace the trapazoid tuners but for fun thought I'd try the other set on the Telecaster. Indeed no noticeable changes and the stock tuners held tune fine, may swap them back.

Did swap the pickups with the MIC Lace parts. Again more experimental than anything else, a bit more twang and also a very low buck purchase through eBay. If I see some better used parts on kijiji might spring for them.

A bit of fret dressing took care of the corrosion, just really surprised to see it since it was purchased brand new.

Have been toying with the idea of installing a Bigsby B50 kit on this Tele, then the practical side kicks in and says, "but for another $50 you can buy a brand new Squier 51", though then I face the wrath of the wife. :cry:


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