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Post subject: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:39 pm
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After all the reading I have been doing, I have arrived at the conclusion one of the things I want to do is apply some copper foil shielding to the pickup cavaties when I have my pickguard off during replacement. I have not however seen anything about how you actually do it. Just mold it in by hand? Use some glue? I'm a very novice guitar player but want to get the most I can out of my guitar so any helpful advice without falme would be very kindly appreciated. Thanks. It would be really great if some one put together a DIY basic mods and upgrades manual for Squiers, Strats and Tele's alike. Maybe since I am already here and have wasted 2 other posts when I should have consolidated and asked everything at once. I want to replace my 2 way switch with a 4 way and split the neck Humbucker in the 4th position and replace the volume with a push pull that changes everything from series to parallel. has anyone done this and was it easy or hard to find the wiring diagrams. I know that electricity runs the lights in my house and is used in electric chairs in some states and that's about the extent of that. Thanks again. :shock:

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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:38 pm
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Try an Electro Harmonix Hum Debugger pedal first!


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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:56 am
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RCB-CA-USA wrote:
Try an Electro Harmonix Hum Debugger pedal first!


Thats an expensive way to do it considering a roll of self adhesive copper foil costs under
£/$10 i got some from ebay, its a bit of time consuming process but well worth doing.

I laid a length of the foil over the cavity and taped it with masking tape to hold it in place then scored the edges with the tip of my thumb, then i cut out the shape making sure it was slightly oversize then laid it in the cavity pushing it down flat with my finger, making sure the edges were nice and neat with a ballpoint pen that has a lid (not too sharp that it tears the foil), for the sidewalls i cut strips that were deeper than the walls (so that you can make a small fold in the foil to guarantee continuity) so it overlaps the floor of the cavity and just comes over the top of the wall (to fold and make contact with the pickguard) if you have a strat it is easier to do this process for each pickup cavity (unless you have a swimming pool cavity).

If you have a plastic PG it would work better if you shield that too so you make a countinuous shielding circuit, wherever you have folded and joined the foil, i also put a solder blob just for good measure.

Any problems try youtube there are plenty of vids on there, like i say this will take up an afternoon of your time but its quite satisfying to stand back and say "i did that, looks good huh?".

Here is a youtube vid that might help, followed by a picture of one of my strats i shielded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_UnQbxtV7Y

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Hope this helps

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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:48 am
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alfunkz wrote:
RCB-CA-USA wrote:
Try an Electro Harmonix Hum Debugger pedal first!


Thats an expensive way to do it considering a roll of self adhesive copper foil costs under
£/$10 i got some from ebay, its a bit of time consuming process but well worth doing.


wassup al!

It all depends how much your time is worth and whether or not you have all the tools and can desolder and solder, etc., plus afford any damage you may do if this is your first time ...rippin' a gee-tar apart!

Excellent recommendation, however! Excellent info too, ty!

I'm curious to know what the difference is in tone between the two options!

I put a nasty sounding Squier into my hum debugger tonight and was tickled pink -- completely different sounding animal now, immediate gratification, real sweet bridge and neck, very textury tone! If it'll take one of my precision setups...hmmmm.

8)


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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:18 am
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Quote:
It all depends how much your time is worth and whether or not you have all the tools and can desolder and solder, etc., plus afford any damage you may do if this is your first time ...rippin' a gee-tar apart!

Well considering the OP was asking, i would imagine they are willing to spend the time that it takes, and is capable of doing the work necessary, and if you take your time and are careful with the screwdriver there shouldnt be any damage.

Quote:
Excellent recommendation, however! Excellent info too, ty!

No problem, always happy to help.

Quote:
I'm curious to know what the difference is in tone between the two options!

Using electronics to reduce the hum will almost certainly change the tone (thats the nature of the beast), using the shielding helps to reduce the hum without losing the tone.

Quote:
I put a nasty sounding Squier into my hum debugger tonight and was tickled pink -- completely different sounding animal now, immediate gratification, real sweet bridge and neck, very textury tone!

That kinda proves my point, but not meaning to sound rude, you're not exactly a fan of squier guitars anyway, so any change would be an improvement (in your opinion)


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If it'll take one of my precision setups...hmmmm.

A bit of fine tuning never hurts, no reason why it shouldnt take a setup, i havent had a problem getting my squiers setup

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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:36 am
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alfunkz wrote:
Well considering the OP was asking, i would imagine they are willing to spend the time that it takes, and is capable of doing the work necessary, and if you take your time and are careful with the screwdriver there shouldnt be any damage.


I agree. I was offering a quicker solution!


alfunkz wrote:
No problem, always happy to help.


We gotta get America back into the barn building mode!


alfunkz wrote:
Using electronics to reduce the hum will almost certainly change the tone (thats the nature of the beast), using the shielding helps to reduce the hum without losing the tone.


Yup! But the hum debugger does it in a good way where I'm at. And, I don't have to diminish the value of a stock guitar and have a stock guitar to play when the noise ain't bad!

alfunkz wrote:
That kinda proves my point, but not meaning to sound rude, you're not exactly a fan of squier guitars anyway, so any change would be an improvement (in your opinion)


...I think I may have found a winner! We'll see. I'll post up on my findings!

alfunkz wrote:
A bit of fine tuning never hurts, no reason why it shouldnt take a setup, i havent had a problem getting my squiers setup


I had numerous problems due to factory defects and the cost far exceeded the value to fix them.


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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:52 am
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Yup! But the hum debugger does it in a good way where I'm at.

Thats a matter of opinion, but if your not happy with the sound of the PUPs you can get new ones with alnico magnets that sound great and the copper shielding for less than the cost of a EHX debugger.

Quote:
And, I don't have to diminish the value of a stock guitar

Modifying isnt about diminishing the cost its about getting the sound you want, most modifications are reversible and therefore will not diminish the value anyway. Luckily i got the sound i want from the box so i spent under £10 to reduce the hum why spend £75-£90 on something else?

Quote:
...I think I may have found a winner! We'll see.

Honestly i don't think you have just by your description of "nasty sounding", and the fact you were happier with the sound after plugging it into a pedal, thats still modifying to get the sound you want.

Quote:
I had numerous problems due to factory defects and the cost far exceeded the value to fix them.

You purchased guitars sight unseen online, if these were brand new guitars from a reputable dealer they would have cost you nothing to repair under warranty conditions, if you had called fender they would have found you a local repair centre to fix any issues or replace your guitars. This all leads me to believe that the problem doesnt actually lie with the manafacturer, as you made the same mistake on numerous occassions and did nothing about it, apart from try and tell people that squiers are poor guitars.

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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:25 pm
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alfunkz wrote:
Thats a matter of opinion, but if your not happy with the sound of the PUPs you can get new ones with alnico magnets that sound great and the copper shielding for less than the cost of a EHX debugger.


...that's a matter of opinion. And, again, I'd like to hear the difference -- same guitar, etc. But, I'm ah not gonna be doin' that anytime soon, I'm stoked with the hum debugger!

alfunkz wrote:
Modifying isnt about diminishing the cost its about getting the sound you want, most modifications are reversible and therefore will not diminish the value anyway. Luckily i got the sound i want from the box so i spent under £10 to reduce the hum why spend £75-£90 on something else?


A stock guitar that's untouched has more value to me and many other people, including professional and sophisticated buyers that will inspect a guitar for evidence of mods and offer less due to the mods -- no matter how good it's done. Not to mention, you loose the warranty if the guitar is still under warranty -- further diminishing the value of the guitar!

alfunkz wrote:
Honestly i don't think you have just by your description of "nasty sounding", and the fact you were happier with the sound after plugging it into a pedal, thats still modifying to get the sound you want.

Nasty sounding as in...the hum and buzz were so bad, the guitar is unusable without the hum debugger. And, the Squier I'm fiddling with for somebody is already heavily modded outside of the neck and body. Already, the tuners...suck! But, I've got a better set of tuners to put into the guitar. And, the neck...it needs to be refinished, too much plastic on it, it didn't hold up well under humid conditions, got too slippery, not good for outdoor, humid gigs based on my body chemistry!

alfunkz wrote:
You purchased guitars sight unseen online, if these were brand new guitars from a reputable dealer they would have cost you nothing to repair under warranty conditions, if you had called fender they would have found you a local repair centre to fix any issues or replace your guitars.


The guitars were so defective, they *should not* have left the factory. If you'll recall from another thread, since I'll be playing in public, I do not want to promote a product by playing it unless I know 99% of the guitars coming off the press *are not* defective in any way! And, I certainly don't want to be running around handling warranty issues on a new guitar, that's plumb dumb -- too much down-time and added expenses!

And, I contacted Fender. They didn't have replacement parts so I decided to send the guitar back, ordered a second one...same deal, defects. Plus, the amount of time involved in fixing their mistakes made the guitar even more expensive...wasted time, gas, etc.

alfunkz wrote:
This all leads me to believe that the problem doesnt actually lie with the manafacturer, as you made the same mistake on numerous occassions and did nothing about it, apart from try and tell people that squiers are poor guitars.


No mistakes here. Your beliefs in this regard are emphatically incorrect my good man! As I stated in the Squier v Fender thread, I intentionally bought a bunch of random Squier guitars to check quality control to see wut the hail came out of the wild -- huge disappointments -- won't promote them by playing them until I can order a few online and grab unopened boxes out of a store -- without defects.

Anyways, I don't want to get into a ping pong match with you. Frankly, you are making the Squier experience even worse. So let's just let this puppy rest! You offered your solution, I offered mine. Hopefully, somebody who is unbiased and knows how to do a test will do a vid on the differences. Meanwhile, again, I'm thoroughly stoked with the hum debugger and strongly suggest anybody try it before modding a guitar! You think it's too expensive and not a better option -- end o' story!

Peace n' love to you my friend -- enjoy your version of good and I'll enjoy mine, hopefully we'll meet somewhere in the middle and help a bunch a people in the process without all the ping ponging!


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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:24 pm
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Quote:
...that's a matter of opinion. And, again, I'd like to hear the difference -- same guitar, etc. But, I'm ah not gonna be doin' that anytime soon

i could do it tomorrow, but i wont. i have a set of pickups with alnico v magnets, that have a similsr sound to fender texmex, that cost £35 brand new, and are used by britains guitarist of the year.

Quote:
A stock guitar that's untouched has more value to me and many other people, including professional and sophisticated buyers that will inspect a guitar for evidence of mods and offer less due to the mods

Actually many professional musicians have there techs change parts on their guitars many times in the constant battle to find the perfect tone, my hero Dave Gilmour arguably one of the best guitarists in the world being one of them, but i would imagine one of his guitars would sell for more than the market value.

Quote:
Nasty sounding as in...the hum and buzz were so bad, the guitar is unusable without the hum debugger.

I doubt that very much, but why do you carry on using these guitars if they are that bad?

Quote:
And, the Squier I'm fiddling with for somebody is already heavily modded outside of the neck and body. Already, the tuners...suck! But, I've got a better set of tuners to put into the guitar. And, the neck...it needs to be refinished, too much plastic on it,

Sounds like a classic vibe to me, if it is the tuners are actually of a good quality infact probably the same ones that fender are putting on their chinese made models, good enough for fender, good enough for me. As for the neck i like the cellulose finish others dont, but that doesnt mean its bad, thats just down to preference you cant good or bad on preference, or your body chemistry.

Quote:
I do not want to promote a product by playing it

you wont be promoting it, you will be playing it because you choose to. Gary Moore, Eric Clapton, Steve Vai, Carlos Santana They promote by endorsement, do you have an endorsement deal with any guitar manafacturers?

Quote:
And, I certainly don't want to be running around handling warranty issues on a new guitar, that's plumb dumb

Nope thats what warranties are for, but if you are ordering online, not really a great deal of running around is there.

Quote:
And, I contacted Fender. They didn't have replacement parts so I decided to send the guitar back, ordered a second one...same deal, defects. Plus, the amount of time involved in fixing their mistakes made the guitar even more expensive...wasted time, gas, etc.

Fender wont have replacement parts for squiers on the shelf, thats why they have a dealer/repair network, did you try the second one out before you purchased it? and as for repairing a new guitar, now thats plumb dumb because as you have already said that voids the warranty, and thats where it gets expensive.

I'm sorry but i will continue to debate with you, because you have had a string of bad luck, made a mistake and then made the same mistake again, it does not mean that your findings are the be all and end all that squier is a bad brand. It just means that you have had some bad luck, and made a couple of silly mistakes, suck it up and learn from it.

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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:50 am
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Oh lord, I see "Brawley" is still pretending his standards are higher than others :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:56 am
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alfunkz wrote:
Actually many professional musicians have there techs change parts on their guitars many times in the constant battle to find the perfect tone, my hero Dave Gilmour arguably one of the best guitarists in the world being one of them, but i would imagine one of his guitars would sell for more than the market value.


We're talkin' Hwy 1's here. Mods void the Fender warranty.

alfunkz wrote:
I doubt that very much, but why do you carry on using these guitars if they are that bad?


Curiosity educated the human being!

Quote:
...the Squier I'm fiddling with for somebody...


alfunkz wrote:
Sounds like a classic vibe to me, if it is the tuners are actually of a good quality infact probably the same ones that fender are putting on their chinese made models, good enough for fender, good enough for me. As for the neck i like the cellulose finish others dont, but that doesnt mean its bad, thats just down to preference you cant good or bad on preference, or your body chemistry.


Yup, it's a CV 50 Strat -- good guess! The body and neck are loud and very acoustic! The wood is real pretty too. And, it's light! Today, I'm gonna explore the tonal spectrum further if I am able.

What's the best way to get that crud off the neck and refinish it?

alfunkz wrote:
you wont be promoting it, you will be playing it because you choose to. Gary Moore, Eric Clapton, Steve Vai, Carlos Santana They promote by endorsement, do you have an endorsement deal with any guitar manafacturers?


Anytime you play or use a product in front of one or more people, you are a walking advertisement and promotion, by choice -- nice, no illusion of promotional choice here!

Quote:
And, I certainly don't want to be running around handling warranty issues on a new guitar, that's plumb dumb

alfunkz wrote:
Nope thats what warranties are for, but if you are ordering online, not really a great deal of running around is there.


...that thinking will enable Fender to use the warranty as a crutch to sell junk. bad, bad, bad, bad, bad -- that's systemic, corporate/customer co-dependency!


alfunkz wrote:
Fender wont have replacement parts for squiers on the shelf, thats why they have a dealer/repair network, did you try the second one out before you purchased it? and as for repairing a new guitar, now thats plumb dumb because as you have already said that voids the warranty, and thats where it gets expensive.


Homey, I purchased many Squiers -- online, in stores, craigslist. All defective in one way or another and the cost far outweighed the benefits in all cases -- you can get a used HWY 1 and be done for less!

alfunkz wrote:
I'm sorry but i will continue to debate with you, because you have had a string of bad luck, made a mistake and then made the same mistake again, it does not mean that your findings are the be all and end all that squier is a bad brand. It just means that you have had some bad luck, and made a couple of silly mistakes, suck it up and learn from it.


Not bad luck, utterly poor quality control and shoddy manufacturing standards.

"Luck is preparation crossing the path of opportunity" guitar hopper! Now I am prepared to not promote the Squier until the standards are higher and I have the resources to start yanking guitars again!

Muff Driver ...brawley, brawley, brawley. I went to the same Jr. college as him but I do not know him, never met him. Sent him a message on fb about his brand and he replied quickly -- cool guy! I ended up sorting almost everything out myself. I'll be contacting him again for the info soon! The guy is amazingly attentive to people who bought or own his guitars -- a barn builder he is I say, my kind o' people!


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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:28 am
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You'll always be RCB Brawley to me. I'm still waiting for a good demo of one of those guitars. The vids on youtube just sound dead.


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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:02 am
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Muff Diver wrote:
You'll always be RCB Brawley to me. I'm still waiting for a good demo of one of those guitars. The vids on youtube just sound dead.


...my I call you Richard (abbreviated) Head? No mature adults I know resorts to silly, un-invited name calling.

I'm still preparing to do demos.

I have a few resonant Brawley's at my disposal -- as resonant as my Hwy 1! It could be anything from the setup to the signal chain if you're not hearing a resonant Brawley.

Interestingly, a 322 Deluxe (basswood), bottom of the line, real metallic and creamy and articulate and sustainful! A 124FR (Louisiana swamp ash/AAAA flame maple cap), top o' the line...shockingly good, even with a licensed circa 2002 Floyd Rose!

oh...and another 322 basswood covered in blue sparkle ploy sings real well, but there's badly modded electrics so I haven't really dug into it yet.

One review I read, and this is true, it's a sub 1k guitar, it's not prime wood, so...go figure! You'd be really lucky to find one or two acoustically loud Brawley's.

A swamp ash 222 isn't pleasing me unless it's got 11/50's on it. I'm using that monster for dropped drop tunings and it's working out nicely!

Some specimens seem to love heavy strings, some lighter strings, some inbetween.

They're a great distraction when I'm not playing my Hwy 1!


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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:23 am
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Quote:
...my I call you Richard (abbreviated) Head? No mature adults I know resorts to silly, un-invited name calling.


If having your views blown out of the water makes you want to call me names, go for it. I'm way too old to be offended by that stuff.

Quote:
I'm still preparing to do demos.

I have a few resonant Brawley's at my disposal -- as resonant as my Hwy 1! It could be anything from the setup to the signal chain if you're not hearing a resonant Brawley.


Not a single video show a quality guitar or decent tone. I can find nice sounding Squiers though.

Quote:
Interestingly, a 322 Deluxe (basswood), bottom of the line, real metallic and creamy and articulate and sustainful! A 124FR (Louisiana swamp ash/AAAA flame maple cap), top o' the line...shockingly good, even with a licensed circa 2002 Floyd Rose!


I hear you saying it, but I just don't hear it.

Quote:
One review I read, and this is true, it's a sub 1k guitar, it's not prime wood, so...go figure! You'd be really lucky to find one or two acoustically loud Brawley's.


I wonder why that is ? Probably the Basswood, the last BW guitar I owned wasn't acoustically loud, but had great sustain plugged in.

Quote:
They're a great distraction when I'm not playing my Hwy 1!


Must................stop..........................myself.



Oh to hell with it, enjoy your version of an AM Strat :lol: Seriously though, just put up a vid of the Brawleys, we gots to hear em!!!


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Post subject: Re: Copper foil shielding-how do you do it?
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:08 am
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Quote:
We're talkin' Hwy 1's here

No we are talking guitars in general.

Quote:
Mods void the Fender warranty.

I am fully aware of that, but some people still buy a new guitar and modify it to their preference, knowing the affect it will have on the warranty.

Quote:
Yup, it's a CV 50 Strat -- good guess! The body and neck are loud and very acoustic! The wood is real pretty too.

Thats funny the CV you spoke of in another thread, you said the finish was of poor quality as well as the wood, and the sound was pretty dead if i remember rightly, that right there is the proof you need that you unfortunately made a bad purchase, that goes back to trying before buying.

Quote:
What's the best way to get that crud off the neck and refinish it?

If you mean your sweat, try giving it a polish.

Quote:
Anytime you play or use a product in front of one or more people, you are a walking advertisement and promotion, by choice -- nice, no illusion of promotional choice here!

You purchase a product to play in front of people, because you like how it plays and sounds, as do the people i mentioned, that is known as choosing something you like. If you are good enough a top manafucturer will approach you and ask you for your signature to put on some headstocks and call it "the "insert name" model", that is promotion by endorsment, so that people like you and me "choose" to buy their products.

Quote:
...that thinking will enable Fender to use the warranty as a crutch to sell junk. bad, bad, bad, bad, bad -- that's systemic, corporate/customer co-dependency!

Nope, that document protects us the consumer, in the unfortunate event that a product is defective at purchase, which means manafacturers have to repair or replace a product, or sometimes offer a full refund, if it doesnt meet the standards expected of them. Statutory righs are not affected....... Blah, blah, blah.

Quote:
Homey, I purchased many Squiers -- online, in stores, craigslist. All defective in one way or another and the cost far outweighed the benefits in all cases -- you can get a used HWY 1 and be done for less!

Firstly, i'm not your "Homey". Purchasing online you have even more rights as a consumer under the "distance buying" laws, In store you obviously didnt ask to try the product, to the store owner you are the perfect customer, but again back to warranty, if brand new products are defective there should be no cost to you to put it right so i really cant see your aguement, in fact there isnt one. Craigslist? even here in the UK i know that craigslist you send the seller a message telling them you are interested but would like to see and test the item before money changes hands, if its defective then you dont buy it. Again you have no arguement, thats your own dumbass fault for buying it in the first place.

Quote:
"Luck is preparation crossing the path of opportunity"

But you made no preperation when you had the opportunity, or you wouldnt have made the mistakes you did.

Quote:
Now I am prepared to not promote the Squier until the standards are higher and I have the resources to start yanking guitars again!

But you are prepared to promote "Brawley" guitars that were that good the company went bust after a very short period of time?. You are prepared to "promote" yourself as a "guitar yanker" on the World wide web? I hope the person that owns that CV doesnt see this

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