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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:36 pm
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...the first CV I got had cracked peg holes, defective electronics, poor fit and finish along with a pretty inspection tag that clearly said it passed but obviously hadn't so I never had a chance to get at the tone.


All this shows us is that YOUR guitar was knackered. I'm not sure how you fail to grasp that simple conclusion.

Quote:
excellent specimen as far as Squier goes but insofar as; tone, presence, clarity, sustain, dynamics, the wood and paint are lifeless and the guitar pales in comparison to the Highway One strat I got sitting right here!


Again the reviews from guitar publications and professional musicians are not backing you up, chief. In fact I've not seen one person say anything like what you're saying.

Quote:
You do the math: Professional article writer promotes Fender Squier with glowing accolades and florid verbiage likening it to a much more expensive guitar! + ...retail customer w/ 3 CV 50's randomly picked out of the market, 2 defective,


Then add that to the thousands of happy user reviews and yes you have an overview of the CV range. That overview says your "alleged" experiences are vastly outweighed by a landslide of people who don't agree with you.

Quote:
and one Highway One strat, perfect, the recommendation...buy a used Highway One or almost any other used USA strat


That's your recommendation, I'm not sure why you feel we should all hold your opinions in such high regard. This thread alone has shown me not to take any notice of advice or opinions from you.

Quote:
the wood, frets, tuners, electronics, and etc. are all far superior


The clips I posted certainly didn't show the guitars to be "unplayable" or "lacking sustain" or "tonally dead". Again you're basically saying that a more expensive guitar is better than a cheaper one. Well it's not always the case. Incredible, you should charge :lol:

Quote:
which would end up costing your more to do and you could then buy an even better used USA model at that price point instead. ='s ...homey


I could mod a MIM and have your guitar for way less money than a new Hwy1, blood.

Quote:
I am shocked you are not consoling me instead, you helping to implore Fender to fix quality control and to use better quality components as the difference between perfection and junk at the prices being charged today is literally a few dollars more...


Again, the reviews of far more reputable people than yourself just don't agree. I do think examples of poor QC should be addressed, but I won't console you because you obviously didn't play before you bought. The components are ok on Squiers in their respective price points. Sure they could make Squiers just like the real US ones, then they could charge £1700 for a Squier :roll:

Quote:
You are promoting shoddy quality control and inferior parts for the sake of saving a couple of dollars -- musicality be durned! :cry:


Nope I'm saying that the higher end Squiers are great at their price point and in the case of the CV line they can compete with more expensive instruments. Musicality ? I posted clips of some great musicians using Squiers. Not only using them, but choosing to use them alongside way more expensive guitars.

Quote:
If you want, we'll literally film the dissecting of two strats showing the clear difference in components for the same price Squier new v. Fender Hwy 1 used -- the Hwy 1 the hand's down winner! Who wants to pitch in for the project??? 8)



How will this back your assertion that Squiers are totally unplayable regardless of mods ? You just don't get it, son.


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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:44 pm
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so you didnt play a guitar before you purchased it then? guitar no no number 1, you have had 3 squiers, one second hand probably purchased via the internet, frankly it sounds to me that you got all you deserved anyway. where are the other 97 or so you have opened and couldnt play. if it happened twice have you considered damage in transit rather than, poor quality control at the factory

you had (unluckily i admit) 3 bad guitars in your opinion, but i still dont see you rising to my challenge, so the debate continues (homey?)

as far as your project is concerned i have already pitched in with side by side comparison of components from the fender website and admitted the only noticeable difference is the electrics. if i wanted to put the same electrics in my guitar as a highway there is no doubt it would pick the highway up and throw it out the hotel window along with the T.V. but as it stands bang for bucks the high end squiers are better no doubt in my mind.

you have my condolences for being naive enough to think you would get them in the first place, thats it. did you consider our feelings when you told us our guitars are inferior to yours?

even with evidence of the CV gaining awards in a price range that includes fender models and videos describing how well the guitars are made and painted, you still dont see that you have had a pretty amazing string of simple bad luck. if you feel you have an issue with fenders quality control go ahead tell them, but i dont so i wont.

and stop asking people to do things you know deep down arent gonna happen, like, buy your "shoddy" guitars, pitch in on a project to buy a new cv to dissect against your highway, warn fender about their poor quality control (sorry fender not my beliefs).

heres another challenge oh mighty one, start a thread on the squier forum, telling all the squier users and owners your views (all of them), i will stay out of it, lets see the results. are you man enough?

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:22 pm
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Muff Diver wrote:
Quote:
If you want, we'll literally film the dissecting of two strats showing the clear difference in components for the same price Squier new v. Fender Hwy 1 used -- the Hwy 1 the hand's down winner! Who wants to pitch in for the project??? 8)



How will this back your assertion that Squiers are totally unplayable regardless of mods ? You just don't get it, son.


How old are you? I'm 51. I just wanna get the elder thing straight here. If you are...68 or older, you may call me son, friend! If you ain't 68 years old or older...if you are my age or under 68, you may call me cousin or nephew depending upon the circumstance. If you are younger but over 33, friend. If you are 33 or younger, you qualify as son and I will therefore call you son and you owe me an apology for disrespecting me, son, if you are son status that is!

How will this prove the point? It will prove the point via systematically disassembling and reassembling and then playing the guitars in a manner that will give the viewer/listener a complete run-down on the exact differences between the guitars with a full-fledged, neutral sound test...one amp, one cord, same settings, 3 guitars...a Hwy 1, an Affinity Strat, and a CV 50 w/ all original equipment and a complete mod package for further study! I will donate the Squire strats.

Now, put ur money where ur mouth is, son, pops...kiddo? Since we can't come to an agreement here, it's time for the ultimate test of opinions...hands' on discernment in a controlled setting -- no bs allowed! And, if we have enough green, we'll then completely transfigure a Squire (strip the paint, real high quality parts and electronics) and see wut flies! If I'm missing something, I wanna know! :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:02 pm
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deep breath.

i repeat the comparison has already been done and the only noticable difference is THE ELECTRICS their is no indication the matrials used are any different on either guitars no need to dissect anything at all its all there for you to prove us wrong (youtube) and now you want to bring in the affinity which we all know will not sound as good because it has ceramic pups, not alnico, and different body material. so what are you going to prove there, an entry level guitar will sound different to 2 (at the worst compareable) guitars.

you really want to know what you are missing? i will tell you because its really quite simple.

you kiddo (i will call you that because that is how you are acting) have unfortunately had a string of bad luck with 3 guitars which you purchased without trying first, and seem to want to tell the world that they shouldnt buy this particular make of guitar because you say so, this is nobody elses fault but yours for not trying them, you need to accept that this was bad judgement on your part.

thats what you are missing, and if you think your posting on this forum saying what you have will make a difference, then your 51 years life experience is being sadly wasted.

like i have said if you would like to share your misfortunes and views on a thread you start yourself go for it but be prepared, as i am sure you will get similar reactions to the ones you are getting here some will be polite some not so polite, but you will not make the difference you appear to want to so you may aswell give up

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:06 pm
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Quote:
How old are you? I'm 51. I just wanna get the elder thing straight here. If you are...68 or older, you may call me son, friend!


I'm not your friend and I'm not your "homey". You have thus far come off like a 14 year old child who's pappa bought him a "spensive" guitar and now feels the need to snort their derision on "lesser" guitars. In this respect, I will continue to refer to you as either son, sonny Jim, boy or perhaps even youngling. Think of it as a reminder to avoid further trolling.

Quote:
If you are younger but over 33, friend. If you are 33 or younger, you qualify as son and I will therefore call you son and you owe me an apology for disrespecting me, son, if you are son status that is!


Oh do shut up :roll:

Quote:
How will this prove the point? It will prove the point via systematically disassembling and reassembling and then playing the guitars in a manner that will give the viewer/listener a complete run-down on the exact differences between the guitars with a full-fledged, neutral sound test...one amp, one cord, same settings, 3 guitars...a Hwy 1, an Affinity Strat, and a CV 50 w/ all original equipment and a complete mod package for further study!


What and allow you to subtly shift the debate from your initial point like you have been doing for some time now :wink: Oh yeah, don't think I hadn't noticed. Only in your world does this prove Squiers are "unplayable", kidder.


Quote:
I will donate the Squire strats.


And what you will prove is that YOUR Squiers are busted. It's not hard logic to follow.

Quote:
Since we can't come to an agreement here, it's time for the ultimate test of opinions...hands' on discernment in a controlled setting -- no bs allowed!


You missed where I trounced your argument that Squiers are unplayable regardless of mods. It happened when I showed clips of respected time served pro players who chose to play a Squier. I managed this at no financial cost to myself whatsoever. Go me !!!


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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:18 am
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One phenomena that I'd like to point out about the the Squier experience; which is quite telling, with the Squiers I purchased (random samples), the Squiers were so unplayable, so defective, I spent more time on forums seeking fixes and advice only to find out it all comes full circle -- you're always back on the forums seeking advice and fixes instead of playing the guitars even after heavily modding the guitar.

"The definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting a different outcome." If I spent another moment on trying to mod a squier...I'd be frickin' nutz -- the outcome will be the same, putting lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig. "a pig is a pig is a pig is a pig." ...I will not put myself through that insanity again and I will do whatever it takes to help educate any person who visits this thread seeking advice about the Squier v. Fender.

If anybody would like to take the challenge and put ur money where your mouth is, I'll donate 3 Squiers and chip in for a Hwy 1strat and we'll do a controlled dissection and sound test of the Squier v. Fender for the definitive answer!

Otherwise, everything else is blah blah, a closed loop of insanity repeating the same behavior over and over and over!

So then, instead of dragging this on and on, let's get ur done, let's do a controlled study of the Squier v. Fender!

If you want to take the challenge, send me a private message or start a new thread. Otherwise, I'll keep putting my 2 cents in so the truth about the Squier don't get buried under the insanity of it all! I do not wish Squier Hell on any person.


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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:54 am
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Quote:
One phenomena that I'd like to point out about the the Squier experience;


Correction. YOUR experience. You wouldn't want to sully the whole brand because you bought a lemon. No, that would make you look silly :lol:

Quote:
"The definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting a different outcome." I


Which is what you did. You bought a lemon without playing it first, then you went straight out and did it again. A fool and his money are quickly parted

Quote:
I will not put myself through that insanity again and I will do whatever it takes to help educate any person who visits this thread seeking advice about the Squier v. Fender.


Yep, feel free to show everyone how not to purchase a guitar. You have lessons to teach in that respect. Your post will sit nicely alongside the hundreds of happy pro & hobby players who love their high end Squier guitars.

Quote:
If anybody would like to take the challenge and put ur money where your mouth is, I'll donate 3 Squiers and chip in for a Hwy 1strat and we'll do a controlled dissection and sound test of the Squier v. Fender for the definitive answer!


How will this prove your assertion that all Squiers are "unplayable" regardless of mods ? I've posted proof of my points, you have just tried to shift the topic. Everyone will see that.

Quote:
Otherwise, everything else is blah blah


Your posts certainly are.

Quote:
So then, instead of dragging this on and on, let's get ur done, let's do a controlled study of the Squier v. Fender!


Been done thousands of times on youtube. 2 guitars, same amp, room & player. The result ? The CV line have effectively killed off the low end fenders like the HWY1. Fender have clearly realised this.



Quote:
f you want to take the challenge, send me a private message or start a new thread. Otherwise, I'll keep putting my 2 cents in so the truth about the Squier don't get buried under the insanity of it all!


Cool, and the landslide of professional & hobby players opinions will tell the real story. Oh yes & I will continue to show pro players choosing a Squier over a low end Fender in order to dismiss your nonsense. You're welcome :D

Quote:
I do not wish Squier Hell on any person.


No you'd rather play a MIM with upgraded wiring and a USA stamp. You're typical of the insecure hobby player. You think the USA stamp on your guitar makes your opinions more "weighty". It doesn't, it just means you got suckered into purchasing the emperors new clothes of the Fender range :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:17 pm
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Quote:
you're always back on the forums seeking advice and fixes instead of playing the guitars even after heavily modding the guitar.


actually no i'm not my squier plays just fine without any mods, the reason i am normally back on the forum is to tell you that your theory is simply not true, and i will keep coming back to tell you if i have to.

Quote:
I will not put myself through that insanity again and I will do whatever it takes to help educate any person who visits this thread seeking advice about the Squier v. Fender.


you carry on me ole fruit, i am sure there are many others on this forum will debate your theory just as i am

Quote:
"The definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting a different outcome."


you mean like asking people if they want to buy your unplayable squiers, or asking people to pitch in to do some sort of pointless comparison, or keep posting on this thread when you are completely wrong?

Quote:
I'd be frickin' nutz


i do believe you are.

Quote:
If you want to take the challenge, send me a private message or start a new thread. Otherwise, I'll keep putting my 2 cents in so the truth about the Squier don't get buried under the insanity of it all! I do not wish Squier Hell on any person.


hang on i suggested that you start a thread with your theory on squiers, your opinion isnt worth 2 cents so i really wouldn't bother. if squier is hell why on earth did you buy more than one? the mind really does boggle

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:23 pm
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alfunkz wrote:
if your brother plays i am sure he will enjoy a bit of guitar shopping :D

You guessed! He's constantly busy for everything and is normally unreachable by family and friends. He is never available for almost anything, but miraculously, he promised to find time for this :-) He even offered to lend his bass so I could try it before buying.

JerL231 wrote:
Hold the guitar and look down the neck and make sure it is straight, that is that the strings run parallel to the neck. If they are not, then ask if the neck needs adjusting, and will they do that. Check to see if the strings look too high, try pressing down the top E at the 7th and 12th fret.

Noted down! I guess online shopping is an absolute no-no, then. Thank you!

Apparently, there's a whole range among Squiers. The Classic Vibe looks great, but the Bullet Strat can be had for about 99 euros/dollars. I've even seen it priced at 89. The affinity is pretty affordable too. Is that good enough to last a few years, or should I go straight to the CV series so the guitar has more years of use? (Ha, that's taking for granted I'll actually learn to play).

I've been checking out second-hand forums. It's funny how they try to sell a Bullet Strat second hand for 150. It can be found new for less! I guess second hand shopping is only worth when you're looking for some really good instrument. So far, the instruments for sale second hand in my price range are on sale at basically the shop price. Most of them are almost new: apparently, many kids have been given guitars for presents and they got tired of them already. They offer to sell them at shop price or they change them for an iPad or PS3. In any case, I doubt I'll find a Classic Vibe guitar or Mustang guitar bass second hand and shortscale size (not in the cities where the purchase may be worth the trip to try them, anyways).

I think I'll wait until "presents time" is over, to see if some kid gets bored of his guitar and offers more realistic prices. I'd have to get my brother to help me check the thing out, but I'll be on guard in case something good appears. Some of the ads stated that their guitars had been used for 6 or 14 hours. They're probably exaggerating, and I won't buy a second hand without a player's help. But I think it's possible that someone was given a guitar as a surprise present, and may be already tired of it. I'll watch the ads just in case.


Last edited by IsabelM on Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:24 pm
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If anybody would like to take the challenge and put ur money where your mouth is, I'll donate 3 Squiers and chip in for a Hwy 1strat and we'll do a controlled dissection and sound test of the Squier v. Fender for the definitive answer!

Otherwise, everything else is blah blah, a closed loop of insanity repeating the same behavior over and over and over!

So then, instead of dragging this on and on, let's get ur done, let's do a controlled study of the Squier v. Fender!

If you want to take the challenge, send me a private message or start a new thread. Otherwise, I'll keep putting my 2 cents in so the truth about the Squier don't get buried under the insanity of it all! I do not wish Squier Hell on any person.


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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:45 pm
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isabel, see sometimes boys do like shopping :lol:

no never ever buy a guitar without trying it first go to the shop try some out, peolpe buy online and are very dissapointed, this only leads to one thing, negativity.

the bullets and affinity are entry level but they will give you a good learning experience, the Classic vibe have a thinner neck some people dont like this but you may find it an advantage and they are truly very good guitars and great value for money, and despite what some people will tell will see you into your first band and beyond.

possibly wait until march to buy when people realise that guitar they really wanted for christmas is a little harder to play than it looks.

but to be honest you can get as much advice on a forum as you can take (good or bad), but there is nothing like finding out for yourself :) .

good luck with the shopping and let us know how you get on, i am sure you will be happy whatever choice you make.

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:49 pm
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rcb in your own words.

Quote:
"The definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting a different outcome."

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:35 pm
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alfunkz wrote:
rcb in your own words.

Quote:
"The definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting a different outcome."


...was that a yes or a no?


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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:42 pm
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its a yes, to that quote describing you to a tee, if thats what you mean.

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:50 pm
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RCB-CA-USA wrote:
If anybody would like to take the challenge and put ur money where your mouth is, I'll donate 3 Squiers and chip in for a Hwy 1strat and we'll do a controlled dissection and sound test of the Squier v. Fender for the definitive answer!

I don't have any guitars to offer, but I think if your Squiers are already malfunctioning, people would want to make the trial by buying something new and trying it out of the box.

I intend to buy one soon (it might be a bass, however). I can afford about 200-300, and am torn between buying the less pricey guitar AND bass (bullet strat or affinity), or putting it all into just one, and getting either something like a Classic Vibe or a Mustang bass (well, other brands are also being considered, but let's not be rude in Fender's house ;-)

In any way, I can try them out of the box as soon as I get it (which sadly, isn't going to be this month as I had hoped. May car engines and their needs be cursed). Maybe I can post a video or something when I get it? What do you need to check out the quality of the guitar?

Mmmm... If you were in my shoes, (complete beginner, I just had to check out all the parts of the guitar and see their names in English to understand this forum), would you get just a medium level instrument, or two beginner ones?

I guess I can buy a good bass (I really like the bass) and the guitar afterwards, but... I don't know when I'm going to have the money. If I'm going to have it.

alfunkz wrote:
isabel, see sometimes boys do like shopping :lol:
:lol: I bought him his first leather jacket and he bought me my first acoustic guitar (it couldn't be tuned, but he tried anyways). This is going to be fun.

alfunkz wrote:
no never ever buy a guitar without trying it first go to the shop try some out, peolpe buy online and are very dissapointed, this only leads to one thing, negativity.

I was tempted by the prices, availability and reputation of thomann.de. But everyone who plays insists in me trying the guitar personally and to feel it. Everyone. When there's unanimity in something, it's clear that it's important. I don't want the guitar to be left in a corner, I guess I'm going to have to like it before buying it.

alfunkz wrote:
the bullets and affinity are entry level but they will give you a good learning experience, the Classic vibe have a thinner neck some people dont like this but you may find it an advantage and they are truly very good guitars and great value for money, and despite what some people will tell will see you into your first band and beyond.

Ouch. If it wasn't for the car engine, it would be either the Classic Vive or a Mustang Bass, no second thoughts. Damned unexpected expenses.

Quote:
possibly wait until march to buy when people realise that guitar they really wanted for christmas is a little harder to play than it looks.
That's a good idea. I think I'll just buy the best I can find that feels right and I can pay, and wait for a second hand of the other. Which means I'll probably get the bass. There are more guitars than basses in the second hand market.

Quote:
there is nothing like finding out for yourself :) .

I'm sure. I loved browsing and trying the bass at the shop I went. Pity they only had one in my price range... And didn't seem very interested in letting me try the stuff.

Guitars are very personal, right? A slightly better guitar between 200 and 300 sounds as the better long-term investment, but I don't have that money right now (well, I'd have to touch my untouchable savings, the emergency fund). So I'm considering the 90-150 price range... After all, it's not like anyone's going to notice the difference at my level.

Argh, this is all too much thinking and little moving. I'll go to the shop and see which guitar feels better in my arms. If I spend learning to play half the time I've spent checking out stuff about guitars, I think it won't matter which model I do get in the end. So I suppose I'll buy the one that calls me and try to play it as best I can.


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