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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:58 pm
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Then maybe you would be made more welcome on the fender side of the forums

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:28 pm
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alfunkz wrote:
I want to comment i really do, but the horse is flogged. Like i've said before people have tried reasoning with you, we tried to beat it into you, i even tried having a conversation with and look where that got me (more insults). I'm done with it you go buy and play any damn guitar you like i just dont want to hear anymore about these ones.

My comments in this thread do not represent the person i am, merely the person i can be pushed into being.

RCB-CA-USA wrote:
Your comments represent exactly the person you are. Nobody pushed you into typing anything. What you do, you do by choice -- no matter what the actions and consequences of your actions are.
Stating that somebody pushed you into doing something is indicative of co-dependency, in a worst case scenario, a criminal mentality -- the blame game, the old "it's not my fault, the devil made me do it" -- nothing less than saying "she wore a hot dress and I couldn't help myself." ..."he typed something I disagreed with so I had to be a dhick. ...he pushed me into it." Bull poop!

And, I don't see the entire conversation as one of reasoning -- from where I'm sitting, it seemed as if people tried to "beat" me into their way thinking from the get go, very well put.

Meanwhile, ...Squier or 'real' Fender? Real Fender (Fender USA), for sure. The Squiers, based on my experiences are junk. I've looked at the newer Squiers too, and though the "quality control" appears to have improved, ...the quality of the wood and hardware are still poor overall, the guitars still sound lifeless and don't hold up well under heavy playing the way my Highway 1 does. When I go hot during intense playing, physically hot, the Squiers tend to react to body heat very poorly, very quickly...the neck expands when they heat up and the tone and pitch accuracy suffer badly. The first few minutes, the instrument is sort of musical sounding, stock, it will hold tune for a bit, which is a joke, but then...when yah turn the heat up, the neck goes limp and it's like playing air guitar, the notes just wither away quickly and pitch accuracy is gone.

To me, it's not a good idea to put that sort of mess into a beginner's hands. A beginner needs to spend time playing instead of wrangling with cheap hardware and flimsy wood and hostile forum members.

So, like I said from the beginning, based on my experiences, the best way to go is a used USA instead of the Squier/mod path. You'll get better wood, better hardware, better quality control, have a playable guitar immediately if it's setup correctly, plus have a useful platform to mod upon.

And yes, I know...every thousandth Squier or so is playable. But, I don't have time to sort through a thousand guitars. And, I certainly don't want to go to a noisy guitar shop and play unsanitary guitars handled by a bunch of nose pickers who don't wash their hands, have skin diseases, etc. And, I don't know of any guitar shop that's going to allow me to start picking through countless boxes to find one that's playable. I'd rather take my chances via a random purchase and open a virgin guitar box myself -- especially when there's an inspection tag on the guitar indicating the guitar should be playable out of the box. Enough guitars arrive in the USA from Asia that play out of the box for there not to be an excuse about setups.

I can play any guitar that's not defective! What I experienced with the Squier line was a frickin' nightmare and I hope to encourage Fender to up the *quality* as well as the quality control, and I will do whatever I can to help others avoid that Squier pitfall by sharing my experiences with them until quality and quality control changes for the better and I can then share a better experience with them. It sucks seeing somebody discouraged due to defects and poor quality.

If all that don't make any sense to you...I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree -- you won't reason or beat me into thinking differently. And, I certainly won't allow you or anybody else try to bury my message under a bunch of reasoned, conversational beatings!


alfunkz wrote: Then maybe you would be made more welcome on the fender side of the forums

...I've got three Squiers sitting right here. One is heavily modded, the other two are stock. I have a Hwy 1. ...I feel perfectly welcome in the Squier forum, and I feel perfectly welcome to participate in this particular thread because I've played a lot of Squiers and own a real Fender!

Your reply is...another well reasoned, conversational slap in the face -- whether you realize it or not! What you wrote means to me..."unless you are going to agree with us, you shouldn't feel welcome here and we're gonna snipe you silly until you are made to feel not welcome here."

Al, if you want to see Fender do well, let people speak out. Otherwise, Fender will just keep putting out junk and be stuck in the same dilemma they are in now...

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:02 pm
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Ok i know i said i'm done, but i want to know what is a "real Fender" i don't see any reasoning behind the term

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:54 pm
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i been toying with the idea of one of these, would these constitute "real fenders"?

http://www.fender.com/en-GB/products/modernplayer/modern-player-telecaster-thinline-deluxe

http://www.fender.com/en-GB/products/modernplayer/modern-player-jaguar

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:30 pm
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alfunkz wrote:
Ok i know i said i'm done, but i want to know what is a "real Fender" i don't see any reasoning behind the term

Read the original post!

SuperTeleMan wrote:
I dont see the point for budding guitarists of a certain level in buying a Squier guitar, surely you would wait untill you can afford a 'real' Fender instead of a cheap shoddy made alternative. :roll:

I concur with SuperTeleMan -- a real Fender is not a cheaply made, shoddy alternative.

Further, if the guitar doesn't come out of the box ready for the studio, stage, and road, it's not a real Fender!

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:46 pm
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alfunkz wrote:

Those violate the "cheaply made" criterion in my book. To me, those are vehicles for profit, not musical instruments meant to enhance the musicians' experience. They look pretty but sound poopy or I'd have ordered one already!

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:16 am
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what's this???? an anti squier post i haven't defended yet????

i don't think these guys today get it... gentlemen... what would you do if i told you all that fenders sold at the price of squiers at one time???? look it up ;) and please do tell me what makes a squier strat less of a fender strat???? the mojo is there, the soul is there, the feel is there, the sound is there... some of them even have that magic sound some fenders don't... the higher end models are practically asian fenders...

AND DON'T YOU DARE DISS G&L!!!!!!


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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:05 pm
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you will never get 100% satisfaction from any guitar manafacturer straight from the box, but if you want to stick to what you believe then you have just classed my squier as a real fender it came from the box ready to play just needed tuning, being nit picky i gave it a setup to my personal taste, but i could of easily taken it to a gig straight from purchase. This is my point all along, just because you had a bad experience it does not mean i have had to have experienced it too, you cannot tell me i have a poorly made guitar, you cannot tell me mine was "sabotaged".

Of all the many thousands of squier guitars sold globally in 2007-9 you unfortunately purchased 2 bad ones, you can call this bad luck, poor decision making, lack of judgement, whatever, but it is your experience alone, and it does not constitute the complete range of guitars as you seem to think it does.

You may very well have a strong opinion, but that opinion is only right to you, for every person who has negative thoughts regarding squiers, i imagine there are 100's if not 1000s that will say otherwise.

My point being, you can have an opinion but it isnt necesarrily right, and it does not mean that people have to, or will listen to it. They will make their own decisions just like i did.

Oh and the "real Fender" you described...... its in the custom shop because that is the only way you are going to get that kind of guarantee everytime

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:31 pm
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alfunkz wrote:
you will never get 100% satisfaction from any guitar manafacturer straight from the box, but if you want to stick to what you believe then you have just classed my squier as a real fender it came from the box ready to play just needed tuning, being nit picky i gave it a setup to my personal taste, but i could of easily taken it to a gig straight from purchase. This is my point all along, just because you had a bad experience it does not mean i have had to have experienced it too, you cannot tell me i have a poorly made guitar, you cannot tell me mine was "sabotaged".

Of all the many thousands of squier guitars sold globally in 2007-9 you unfortunately purchased 2 bad ones, you can call this bad luck, poor decision making, lack of judgement, whatever, but it is your experience alone, and it does not constitute the complete range of guitars as you seem to think it does.

You may very well have a strong opinion, but that opinion is only right to you, for every person who has negative thoughts regarding squiers, i imagine there are 100's if not 1000s that will say otherwise.

My point being, you can have an opinion but it isnt necesarrily right, and it does not mean that people have to, or will listen to it. They will make their own decisions just like i did.

Oh and the "real Fender" you described...... its in the custom shop because that is the only way you are going to get that kind of guarantee everytime


it's all personal taste but there is no need to diss them right at the start... i know some good friends of mine who aren't going to give more than 500 bucks for a good guitar and with reason... i've played some really expensive guitars and can't tell no difference from my squier vm and a blacktop tele for example (i've tried more expensive and i either liked them or hated them) i personally even prefer my squier over my fender modern player marauder for some reason.... what i'm saying is that these guitars can grow as much of a personality as a fender... and as for the garantee, screw the garantee i don't want a guitar for the garantee i just wanna play... i grew up watching my idols play cheaper and even used guitars they would take what they can get so i'm happy with what i have


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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:18 pm
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alfunkz wrote:
you will never get 100% satisfaction from any guitar manafacturer straight from the box...2 bad Squiers..."sabotage"... ...

It wasn't 2 bad Squiers. By my count, it's 10 duds n' defects in a row, 7 new and fresh from the box w/ inspection tags, 3 used that my roommate insisted getting against my advice!

What's ironic is, what was wrong on one Squier was correct on the others. Had each of those guitars been put together correctly 100%, which Fender could have easily done, but didn't, and for literally a few dollars more on hardware, electronics, and wood, Fender could have turned those guitars into stunning instruments -- and those are my points!

The CV 50 tele's and strats I purchased were clearly "sabotaged" due to a labor conflict. So, don't throw the word "sabotaged" around like it don't mean nothing. And what was really, really sad about that whole experience was...again, those guitars could have been *stunning* instruments. Whoever thought releasing and not recalling those batches...poop on them, that was a harsh thing to do to a struggling player.

And...never say never -- I've been 100% satisfied with a guitar purchase that went straight from a box into somebody's closet and then off the GC for a steal of a deal -- $187 and something cents for a Brawley 124FR closet classic that is utterly amazing and rivals *any* shred stick and surpasses my Hwy 1 w/ a Callaham bridge on it, and my Hwy 1 is an utterly devastating strat w/ the Callaham on it.

And one more thing, bub...lol, j/k of course, though the Hwy 1 was an online purchase, due to a longstanding relationship with the online retailer and due to the first Hwy 1 they sent not being to my liking, they did pull a few guitars and inspect them for me, me seeking the lightest, most resonant Hwy 1 they had in stock -- no pictures necessary, they knew exactly what I wanted and made it happen. They got back to me with weights and comments and surprised me with a really nice Hwy 1 -- 99% satisfaction on the Hwy 1, it's spec'd for 9-42's but had 10-46's on it -- one gripe about the Hwy 1 design, I'd have paid a few bucks more for a Callaham quality bridge, $729 instead of $699 w/ a Callaham quality bridge and $800.00 w/ a TSA approved case would have thoroughly been a win/win deal.

So, consider yourself lucky you got a good one out of the box, I did not and have not, yet! Can't wait till I do. I'm not anti Squier but I am anti pooped and anti pooped on guitars.

No doubt, however, the 3 Squiers that are here and haven't been kicked out dah door, w/ a lot of work and more cash, may be serious players. But still...the amount of work and cash...it's still a gamble, you won't know till you're done. So, a used USA is a better investment and a better platform due to the quality of wood and attention to detail.

HEY ralfcaetano! You mentioned G&L in one of your posts. Have you played any G&L Tribute guitars?

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:48 pm
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Now there are 10 guitars? Now i don't mean to sound disrespectful but you have only mentioned 2 and have only ever based your story on them. How am i supposed to take any notice if you keep changing your story.

Sabotage is a word you started to throw around not me, i have offered a number of different scenarios for the damage and all of them perfectly viable but you have chosen not to acknowledge them.

Now lets look at these 10 guitars. did you really purchase 10 defective guitars and do nothing about them? That is an even more unbelievable story.

So you purchased a hwy and were not happy (which by your definition makes it not a real fender) so contacted the seller and asked them to look for a guitar you wanted, you had 10 opportunities to.do.this with squiers and chose not to, 10 guitars i can't get over that, and you are still blaming them.

I rest my case

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:22 pm
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alfunkz wrote:
Now there are 10 guitars? Now i don't mean to sound disrespectful but you have only mentioned 2 and have only ever based your story on them. How am i supposed to take any notice if you keep changing your story.

Sabotage is a word you started to throw around not me, i have offered a number of different scenarios for the damage and all of them perfectly viable but you have chosen not to acknowledge them.

Now lets look at these 10 guitars. did you really purchase 10 defective guitars and do nothing about them? That is an even more unbelievable story.

So you purchased a hwy and were not happy (which by your definition makes it not a real fender) so contacted the seller and asked them to look for a guitar you wanted, you had 10 opportunities to.do.this with squiers and chose not to, 10 guitars i can't get over that, and you are still blaming them.

I rest my case


You rested your case on poop, not the truth.

I haven't changed my story one iota if you read through all of my posts about Squiers on the Fender forum. 10 duds n' defects, 10 random purchases, 7 fresh out of the box with inspection tags, 3 used.

And, I was 99% happy w/ the second Hwy 1 -- a real Fender, for sure.

...2 of the Squiers came off the shelf from GC, 1 from a mom n' pop I won't bother mentioning -- they are not getting a plug from me --, and 4 came from an online retailer that immediately took the guitars back and cheerfully facilitated the exchanges until a real Fender, a Hwy 1 arrived, the 3 used guitars were gotten off of CL after that whole experience. And the most frequent comment in-store about the Squiers during the exchange and then refunds were..."what did you expect, it's a Squier." ...I told them I expected what was advertised, not what I received, which shut them right up.

Either you are thoroughly naive and have lived a charmed life, or ...al...u r weird. You obviously don't really realize how... ...how skewed or deluded your thinking is regarding my posts.

Anyways, I hope you can work all of this all out in your head cuz you are acting way freaky about my posts, way freaky.

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:41 pm
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Why do you have to use insults, are you not capable of having a conversation without them? I do find that very strange.

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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:14 am
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RCB-CA-USA, you must know some pretty weird guitar stores... i would have bought a g&l legacy guitar a while back if i had the cash... i ended up buying my fender marauder which satisfies me a lot... now excuse my "weirdism" in saying this but i have never seen a high end squier that hasn't blown me away (actually i have seen a standard with a cold joint in the volume pot but thats it in about 15 or 16 high end squiers i've seen guitarrists use live).... if there is a problem, either the stores are screwed doing setups or fenders quality control has gone real down since last month when i tried the new squier jazzmaster and tele deluxe guitars (which i really enjoyed for a basswood guitar)

i'll be honest with you cause i tend to look at both sides of an argument the only complaints i could possibly have with squier is the new vintage modified line... they used to use indian red cedar as a tonewood... i was blown away and couldn't believe i was even playing an unplugged electric... it was so acousticaly balanced and bright sounding... now they went back to basswood and ruined something good that they were onto (i'm glad i got my old vm while i can)... and esteticlly i could only say that this line should be called the vintage stock line.... there is nothing modified about black white and sunburst with white pickguards... the only guitars that got my eye this year in the vm line were the surf strat, the tele deluxe and the mustang...

but if in fact there is a problem with these guitars, i say get physical proof... vids, pictures, whatever you can to prove that the squiers you've seen till now are defective...


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Post subject: Re: Squier or 'real' Fender
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:51 am
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ralfcaetano wrote:
RCB-CA-USA, you must know some pretty weird guitar stores...

All three are mainstream retailers. GC, ...you could see the wickedness in their eyes, money hungry shyster minions. The local mom n' pop...same. The online retailer, excellent, no hassles, they took care of the exchanges right away!

I characterize the whole experience as...troubling, pathetic, and sad, not weird.

ralfcaetano wrote:
... i would have bought a g&l legacy guitar a while back if i had the cash... i ended up buying my fender marauder which satisfies me a lot...

G&L's Tribute guitars look and sound nice, but I'm gonna wait for feedback from the masses before I try one out.

I don't like the sound of the Marauders I heard, and they are way over-priced based on the specs and final product. It's an intriguing design, however.

ralfcaetano wrote:
now excuse my "weirdism" in saying this but i have never seen a high end squier that hasn't blown me away (actually i have seen a standard with a cold joint in the volume pot but thats it in about 15 or 16 high end squiers i've seen guitarrists use live).... if there is a problem, either the stores are screwed doing setups or fenders quality control has gone real down since last month when i tried the new squier jazzmaster and tele deluxe guitars (which i really enjoyed for a basswood guitar)

Again, the guitars I randomly picked were clearly sabotaged, so...I understand how this looks weird to the few who got keepers. Apparently, Fender has taken steps to correct the quality control issues based upon what I'm reading lately, but still...the quality of the components are still lacking in my book. A few more dollars would have made those guitars and new guitars like the Marauder keepers! Since the batches are out-sourced to cheap foreign labor using cheap materials, the Squier line should be dirt cheap, dirt cheap based on the specs.

ralfcaetano wrote:
i'll be honest with you cause i tend to look at both sides of an argument the only complaints i could possibly have with squier is the new vintage modified line... they used to use indian red cedar as a tonewood... i was blown away and couldn't believe i was even playing an unplugged electric... it was so acousticaly balanced and bright sounding... now they went back to basswood and ruined something good that they were onto (i'm glad i got my old vm while i can)... and esteticlly i could only say that this line should be called the vintage stock line.... there is nothing modified about black white and sunburst with white pickguards... the only guitars that got my eye this year in the vm line were the surf strat, the tele deluxe and the mustang...


...you've confirmed my complaints -- cheezy, penny pinching corner cutting.

ralfcaetano wrote:
but if in fact there is a problem with these guitars, i say get physical proof... vids, pictures, whatever you can to prove that the squiers you've seen till now are defective...

At the time this all happened, I wasn't prepared to do all that. I was investing my time and money shopping out guitars and gear, not buying cameras and forum hopping for help. All of the new guitars, all 7, the dirty 7...each could have and should have been made correctly but weren't and should have been then sold off as factory defects once the defects were discovered.

Hopefully, all that is water under the bridge now and Fender is feverishly crankin' out keepers instead of nightmares!

Nice meeting you ralfcaetano! *I* appreciate your excellent replies!

alfunkz...ur bein' a dhick.

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