It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:08 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:20 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:18 am
Posts: 348
Location: Savannah
I agree that Fender should market their Squier guitars better. But, I'm not exactly sure how I think they should. Your ideas sound good. But I think they should make guitars that aren't available through the Fender line but still great guitars.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:18 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:42 am
Posts: 258
Gravity Jim wrote:
Yes, this is a conversation about marketing... and this is not intended as an insult, but it is a conversation among people who don't know enough about marketing to even begin discussing it.

There is an extremely wide range of management disciplines that come under the heading of marketing - product management, distribution channel management and database management, for example - but most people who don't work in the field think that "marketing" consists almost entirely of advertising, PR and "image" (something that would be more accurately called "brand management"), and that this image can be manipulated independently of the other aspects of marketing.

Well, it can't. From where I sit, Fender has done a remarkable job of resurrecting the Squier brand, has used it to open new channels and excite new demographics, and has no intention or desire to use it the way Gibson uses Epiphone. Some of Fender's recent big successes have come from the Squier brand, it is attracting young players to a Fender preference (just read the threads on this forum for confirmation), and they have used it to kite some radical ideas (the '51, the Venus, etc.).

So, the basic premise of this discussion - that Squier needs a facelift, is somehow unsuccessful compared to, say, Epiphone and isn't making money for FMIC - is off target.


Now now no reason to get defensive here...

But marketing is marketing...and to take the opinion that a consumer (who is the target of marketing) doesn't know anything about it is balderdash.

I think there is a disagreement as to what might construe a "radical" idea...I don't really see the '51 as a radical idea. It looks like a hybrid guitar...but when I think "radical"....then it's a question of pushing the boundaries of technology.

Let me put it this way: I just got back from a smaller music store. The shop was selling Squires and Peaveys...and, they Peaveys were of similar quality...but cheaper.

If it's a question of someone being embarassed about buying something lower end (referencing some folks who sand the name off)....then where is Squire's footprint in this?

And at any time someone states "an image cannot be changed"? Eh, might as well hang it up then.

Or, start another brand if it's a question of whether or not you want to push the boundaries with a Fender name.

(Ah well. I guess if people want to say "it can't be done"....then maybe it's just best to just write it off...)


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:21 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 179
for those of you who think squier isnt attactting kids it got me hooked on fender! And the vintaged modified stuff is a great deal :D

_________________
when god tels you to go out and rock, do it

Squier Strat
pro jr. amp


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:50 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:31 am
Posts: 940
The_Sentry wrote:
Now now no reason to get defensive here...

But marketing is marketing...and to take the opinion that a consumer (who is the target of marketing) doesn't know anything about it is balderdash.


Well, I'm not being defensive, because I don't have a dog in this fight. And no, it's not an opinion that consumers don't know how marketing works, and it isn't "balderdash." A consumer doesn't understand marketing any better than someone who can fill a glass of water could run a filtration plant.

I'm just pointing out that this thread's thesis that Squier is somehow a failed brand is wrong. It isn't. a failed brand, and nobody is saying "it can't be done;" I'm saying it's being done.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:33 pm
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 179
i believe jim has won this one

_________________
when god tels you to go out and rock, do it

Squier Strat
pro jr. amp


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:42 am
Posts: 258
Gravity Jim wrote:
The_Sentry wrote:
Now now no reason to get defensive here...

But marketing is marketing...and to take the opinion that a consumer (who is the target of marketing) doesn't know anything about it is balderdash.


Well, I'm not being defensive, because I don't have a dog in this fight. And no, it's not an opinion that consumers don't know how marketing works, and it isn't "balderdash." A consumer doesn't understand marketing any better than someone who can fill a glass of water could run a filtration plant.

I'm just pointing out that this thread's thesis that Squier is somehow a failed brand is wrong. It isn't. a failed brand, and nobody is saying "it can't be done;" I'm saying it's being done.


This is where I disagree....and to a degree, the implication is that "consumers don't know what they're doing, or what they're buying."

Are you really certain you want to stand behind that argument? That people don't know what they're buying? That they don't know quality products?

As far as Squire being a "failed" brand...hey, if they're making a profit...more power to 'em. But is there also an implication here that there is no room for improvement? That Squire couldn't become a respected brand that put out consistently well-made products and were respected for that?

Hey...Maybe I'm just one of those consumers who don't know what they're doing (who may have been really stupid...I own Fender products! D'oh!) But I am not going to buy the argument that Fender...a premiere brand, a classic brand...shouldn't strive to have anything associated with them par excellence.

That should include Squire.

I guess that's it for me at the end of this thread, but I will never believe in a million years that there's just no room for improvement as far as Squire is concerned.....

There should always be room for improvement.....


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:24 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:15 pm
Posts: 3979
Location: Vermont, USA
Squier is not a failed brand. Squire is not a manuafter's brand of any guitar.

Now there are things that could raise Squier's name up out of the noise.

Sell branded merchandise - just like you can get lots of Fender shirts, hats, stools, etc - Squier needs to do that.

Sell signature guitars - they might not sell to everyone - but they do bring in the customers and their money - Fender doesn't do their signature gear for no reason - in fact, some artists get multiple signature guitars - one by Fender and one by the Fender Custom Shop.

Now there are artists that have both Fender and Squier signature guitars - they happen to be Basses - but Frank Bello and Mike Dirnt have signature basses by both.

Another way would be to sponsor clinics in music stores - like Fender does - but aimed at Squier customers.

Sponsor concerts or concert series at regional venues or music festivals.

They are already producing higher quality, lower cost quitars and basses.

And folks have to get this idea that the only Squier customers are kids - I'm not a kid - I'm 63 - I've bought Squier because they are great value for the dollar. They are a cost effective instrument.

I'm not a marketing guy - I'm just looking at what other brands do to raise their name in front of the crowd.

Gil 8)

_________________
Where ever you go, there you are

1998 Ovation 1861 Standard Balladeer Natural
Taka - 2005 Squier '51 Black
Yume - 2006 Squier Strat Cherryburst
Houbi - 2008 Fender VG Strat Blizzard Pearl - won here
Fender Super Champ XD; Vox DA-5


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:47 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:08 pm
Posts: 2472
Location: Virginia
I think we all can agree that Squier needs to make some changes, but I guess we cannot all agree as to what those changes should be. I wonder if this is the same type of discussion and problem that the suit and ties have when discussing Squier at Fender....

_________________
RAMA LAMA FA FA FA


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:20 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:22 am
Posts: 88
The way I see it is that the Squier brand of instruments, good or bad as they may be, are used a spring board if you will. They are targeted at a certain demograhic,(newer players and people wanting a lower priced ticket item). When a mother and child walk into a music store looking for her sons/daughters first guitar, she does not want to be walked into the back room and be told about how great an American Standard is. She does not want to pay more then a $1000.00 for something she is not sure her child really does want. (we have all met people in our life that went out bought a guitar but never really started playing). She wants something that is affordable and will last till her kids skill and taste improve.

In that sense Squier is doing great. They have "Pop" stars that endorse them and obviously have told the guitar store sales guys to push them towards the newer players.

In order for Squier to "improve" their name they would need to get rid of the stigma that they build a "lower end" guitar. The way to do that is to improve the product, better pickups better fit and finish....but wait that would raise the prices and eliminate a huge target market for them.

It seems to me that Fender has things set up right. They offer different guitars...and basses, in stepping stones so that they can get a "Fender" into the hands of just about everyone. Squier, MIM and MIJ, MIA and then The Custom Shop stuff. This shows me that Fender is willing to make a product for me no matter what my tastes, skills and budget may be.

Many many years ago I got an MIM Strat. I played it and loved it, learnt on it for years. When my ears got a little better, I got a MIA and now after 6 years of playing that one I just got a Custom Shop.

Just about every major brand out there has these stepping stones with products and quality, look at any car company. There are entry models and there are flagship models. You get what suits you at the time and place.

Bottom Line: I dont think Squier is on the wrong path. Would I buy one, no I would not. I am at a point in my life where I can afford something a little more. But if a friend came to me and said "hey i wanna start playing but dont have a big budget". I would have no problem walking him/her over the Squire section and say"Look at these, good product at a good price. Seems right up your alley, your new at this and probably dont really know what your looking for anyways, tone wise and the such."

Wow, I didnt realize how long that was...sorry.

And Jim... I agree the majority of the population are not educated buyers. I work in sales myself and I see it in the Corporate part of life too. I worked as retail salesman and manager for years when I was younger. So I can say I saw it there big time.

Again...sorry about the long post.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:51 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:31 am
Posts: 940
Not a bad analysis, LilBoyBLues. I agree that recent product introductions - especially the "Stop Dreaming, Start Playing" packs - demonstrate a complete understanding on the part of Fender as to the value of the Squier line, and your anecdote about Mom and the Kid in the Guitar Store is accurate.

But I need to clarify something: I never said and did not imply in any way product that consumers aren't capable of making an informed decision about what to buy. What I said was that consumers don't understand the science of marketing. There is much more to marketing than simply creating image, which is what most people imagine and what this discussion bears out.

You guys talk about "what Fender oughta do" as if there were no conflicts between distribution channels, as if the problem of cannibalization of your own lines didn't exist, as if creating relationships with recording artists was as simple as waving a wand, as if there was no such thing as a product manager. THAT'S my point: that any discussion of "marketing" by people who don't know how it's done is pretty much just a bar-room argument.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:57 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:22 am
Posts: 88
Thank you Jim. I just call them the way I see them.

Sorry about the confusion in getting your message out. But I agree more with you now. Especialy about"canabilizing your own lines". Because this is exactly what Fender needs to be careful of doing. If they up the price and quality of the Squier whats the point in having MIM products?

Excellent take on this Jim. As usual you have contributed something excellent to this forum.

P.S. I didn't mean to sound that the public are bumbling idiots being herded like sheep from brand to brand. That was not my intention.


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:10 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:31 am
Posts: 940
No apologies, dude... I'm just a stickler about making sure that what I said doesn't get turned into "what I THOUGHT you said," which is what frequently happens in an Interweb discussion.

And I didn't think you were calling consumers bunch of morons, either. :D

But you're right: Fender doesn't NEED an Epiphone. They just make those guitars in Mexico and call them "Fender." As a brand, Squier is something else altogether.

As for whether Squier has taken a chance and successfully gone outside their own box once in while, I've got just two words.

Hello Kitty.

:D


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:22 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:22 am
Posts: 88
LOL ... Hello Kitty.

I'm with you on that.

...LOL...Hello Kitty...wow


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:49 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:42 am
Posts: 258
Well, to road test this...I went back to the music store today and tried out quite a few guitars.

As a leftie, the store only had ONE guitar in stock that I could play...the Squire Strat standard in black w the white pickguard. I played it. It wasn't bad...(If I bought it, I'd want jumbo frets and new pickups in it..)

One advantage the leftie did have....it had better bridge hardware in it than its right handed counterpart. Perhaps this is an inventory question, or it's just a bonus for having to pay slightly more for the left-handed model.

But then again....I'd do that even if I bought a Fender guitar. (and, even w/o the frets, I did feel like the neck needed to be tweaked slightly).

I guess the question is this: You take a guitar like that, add about 50 dollars in labor and approximately 75 dollars (base cost) towards better pickups...

Would it be worth it?


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:38 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:31 am
Posts: 940
The_Sentry wrote:
I guess the question is this: You take a guitar like that, add about 50 dollars in labor and approximately 75 dollars (base cost) towards better pickups...

Would it be worth it?


Absolutely! If you like the way the neck and body feel and the guitar is responsive - and you think it only needs about $125 worth of mods to bring it up to where you want it - that sounds like the hot set up to me, especially since you lefties get a raw deal on availability.

You could always do something about the frets down the road, if you chose, or even replace the neck with a Warmoth or lefty Fender neck.

I mean, what are you looking at.. $230 for the guitar, another $125 for a set of, say, GFS pickups and upgraded pots and switch... for $350, you've got a guitar that's probably going to sound better than a new MIM, and you can always dial in a bolt-on neck to play the way you want.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: