It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:55 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
Post subject: How Squire could improve its image
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:41 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:42 am
Posts: 258
OK, maybe Fender doesn't want to improve the image of Squire...

But in my humble opinion, I think they should. And now is the perfect time to do it.

Right now you have a video game fad going on that is getting kids to assimilate playing guitar (Guitar Hero, etc...whatever). A lot of those kids may inevitably turn to the real thing...

And it seems that in a lot of cases, Fender is losing this battle to other manufacturers based on some conversations I've had both online and in music circles.

So, with that being said: Squire SHOULD be as respected as Epiphone. Now, how could this be done? I'd go this route:

1st: Consider your manufacturing market. I am not going to argue that USA manufactured Fenders should be Fenders...that's what they should be. IMHO when you buy a "Fender", you're supposed to be buying the best of the best....but at the same time? What about your manufacturers in Mexico? Or, Japan? Or, elsewhere? A lot of these are great guitars...but they still stamp the "Fender" name of them. Why can't they be high end Squires? The point is that Squire should be the footprint, but there should be products that compete in quality.

2nd: Get a signature model from an artist to Squire: Someone younger that may get kids to play...why can't Squire have a signature model? (Epiphone has Zakk Wylde hawking their instruments). Seems to me that a John Mayer model might be great...or, from a telecaster perspective, someone in the country western arena like a Brad Paisley or even someone like Prince, or John5. The whole point would be to get kids to get hooked on strats and teles early and get lifetime buyers.

3rd: New innovations that you're uncertain of? Put them out on the Squires. It's a perfect test market.

If Squires start getting good reviews and can be had at a reasonable cost, buyers will come and will eventually pay more and more money for the brand as it becomes more respected. But right now I can't help but think that in many circumstances, the ship is sailing....I can't state enough that a lot of kids right now are all about that other sound....and, yes, it's different, but rock and roll was built just as much on the Fender brand as it was those other guys...

Squire deserves a facelift...and they should be given the chance to make more money for Fender...

2 cents.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:45 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:34 pm
Posts: 377
Location: The Rocky Mountains
I agree with points 2 and 3, but not so much number one. I think a major reason why epiphone has a higher standard than squire and is more respected is that, because, Epiphone was initially its own company that competed with Gibson, until they were purchased by them.

_________________
Formally known here as The Metalhead Punk
Gear:
Standard Stratocaster HSS w/ SD SH-6 Distortion in the bridge
Ernie Ball Strings
Monster Cables
Dunlop Picks
Peavey 5150 II 120watt Head
Vader 2x12 Cab 240watt


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:50 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:42 am
Posts: 258
The Metalhead Punk wrote:
I agree with points 2 and 3, but not so much number one. I think a major reason why epiphone has a higher standard than squire and is more respected is that, because, Epiphone was initially its own company that competed with Gibson, until they were purchased by them.


That's true enough....but right now they both serve similar purposes in terms of distribution and sales.

If you build it, they will come.

Here's an example: The Highway Series...a great guitar. Why couldn't something of that caliber have been a Squire? Would it be a bad thing if higher end Squires worked their way up into the market where buyers were paying 6 or 700 USD and were getting a good deal for their money and felt good about their purchase?

I really love Fender guitars. I love the sound of 'em, and to be honest if you're playing in bands with more than one guitar or multiple instruments they really shine because of their bright tone.

I just think it's kind of sad to see so many kids talk about "those other models" when they should be going for the Strats, the Mustangs, and the fascimiles thereof...


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:59 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:08 pm
Posts: 2472
Location: Virginia
I don't agree with #1 either.

They sort of already do #2 with the Deryck from Sum41 and Avril Lavigne Signature Teles, and they also have signature basses from Frank Bello (Anthrax) and Pete Wentz from Fall Out Boy, though yeah, they probably could do more, but personally signature gear never really makes me want to buy something just cause so-and-so's signature is on it, but it may work for the younger market.

As far as #3, thats part of the reason why at times Fender distances itself from Squier, if Squier puts out a total piece of crap, Fender can just back off and say,"Well we have nothing direcetly to do with that."

Fender can do this and that, but it needs to start with players and purchasers of Squiers too. What I hate to hear the most is how someone sanded off the Squier-logo and put a Fender on there. If more people took pride in their Squiers, then they probably would get more respect, but when people are buying them and trying to pass them off as Fenders with Fender logos, then it gives non-Squier owners the perception that even Squier users are embarraessed by the Squier name. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE SQUIER SHIRTS, HATS, AND OTHER SQUIER SCHWAG.

_________________
RAMA LAMA FA FA FA


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:05 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:42 am
Posts: 258
bowlfreshener wrote:
I don't agree with #1 either.

They sort of already do #2 with the Deryck from Sum41 and Avril Lavigne Signature Teles, and they also have signature basses from Frank Bello (Anthrax) and Pete Wentz from Fall Out Boy, though yeah, they probably could do more, but personally signature gear never really makes me want to buy something just cause so-and-so's signature is on it, but it may work for the younger market.

As far as #3, thats part of the reason why at times Fender distances itself from Squier, if Squier puts out a total piece of crap, Fender can just back off and say,"Well we have nothing direcetly to do with that."

Fender can do this and that, but it needs to start with players and purchasers of Squiers too. What I hate to hear the most is how someone sanded off the Squier-logo and put a Fender on there. If more people took pride in their Squiers, then they probably would get more respect, but when people are buying them and trying to pass them off as Fenders with Fender logos, then it gives non-Squier owners the perception that even Squier users are embarraessed by the Squier name. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE SQUIER SHIRTS, HATS, AND OTHER SQUIER SCHWAG.


Thanks for replying, and yeah, I know this isn't exactly a vanilla topic...

But that's the problem. Fender should stand behind Squire's product. Not back away from it if something does go wrong with it.

Besides, if they worked the Squires to where they fetched a decent price, then they could ask more money for the American made Fenders.....

(And PS: As far as those endorsements go....they're OK, but are any of those folks featured regularly in guitar magazines? If you're going to do that endorsement, get someone who flat out plays like mad...and is respected and known for it. A case in point: Last month a guitar magazine featured a "Meet the New Guitar Heroes" hook on their cover...and unless I'm mistaken, at least 2 of those guys were playing Fender instruments or something based off of a Fender model.)


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:13 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:08 pm
Posts: 2472
Location: Virginia
They could raise the prices on Squiers to raise the prices on Fenders, but then Fender prices would all be more like Gibson prices, which are freaking outrageous and ridiculous. I could make 4 house payments for the price of 1 Gibson...Just cause they raise the price on Squiers doesn't mean they'll get more respect. In fact, when the new Vintage Modified Telecasters came out last year with a price of $299, which is $100 more than the Squier Standard, some people were thinking,"I might as well save $100 more and just get a Fender MIM." So raising Squier prices actually may hurt them a bit because part of the love of Squiers is decent guitars at a low price.

Pretty much everything Epihphone puts out is just a copy of something Gibson, so they aren't that innovative and take risks (at least with guitars, Epi amps are a whole other topic). Squier has had or currently has the Jagmaster, Cyclone, 51, M80s, and other models that weren't just exact clones of Fender guitars, though they do have those too, but I think Squier is actually more innovative than Epiphone in that way.

As far as endorsements, I got no problem with them, I am just saying that just because Guitar Hero guy or someone else uses this or that doesn't make me want to buy it, because if I wasn't going to buy it before someone endorsed it, I wouldn't buy it just because someone now endorses it...anyways....

_________________
RAMA LAMA FA FA FA


Last edited by bowlfreshener on Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:17 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:58 pm
Posts: 779
Location: Miami
Man, this sounds like a class in marketing. A lot of it makes sense but I would never pay more than $200 for a Squire. Sorry but I'll pay the extra money only if I'm buying the brand name whether is is Fender, Goodyear or Maytag.

I like the innovation idea. They kind of did that with the Stagemasters neckthru guitars and aftermarket tremolos. I'd like to see more experementation with Squier guitars and what better brand to try it on. Throw these hot rods out there and see what kind of reaction you get!


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:19 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:08 pm
Posts: 2472
Location: Virginia
mustangtoo wrote:
Man, this sounds like a class in marketing. A lot of it makes sense but I would never pay more than $200 for a Squire. Sorry but I'll pay the extra money only if I'm buying the brand name whether is is Fender, Goodyear or Maytag.

I like the innovation idea. They kind of did that with the Stagemasters neckthru guitars and aftermarket tremolos. I'd like to see more experementation with Squier guitars and what better brand to try it on. Throw these hot rods out there and see what kind of reaction you get!


I think thats what they did with the 51, and it still won't surprise me if Fender decides to release their own higher priced version of that guitar...

_________________
RAMA LAMA FA FA FA


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:40 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:42 am
Posts: 258
bowlfreshener wrote:
They could raise the prices on Squiers to raise the prices on Fenders, but then Fender prices would all be more like Gibson prices, which are freaking outrageous and ridiculous. I could make 4 house payments for the price of 1 Gibson...Just cause they raise the price on Squiers doesn't mean they'll get more respect. In fact, when the new Vintage Modified Telecasters came out last year with a price of $299, which is $100 more than the Squier Standard, some people were thinking,"I might as well save $100 more and just get a Fender MIM." So raising Squier prices actually may hurt them a bit because part of the love of Squiers is decent guitars at a low price.

Pretty much everything Epihphone puts out is just a copy of something Gibson, so they aren't that innovative and take risks (at least with guitars, Epi amps are a whole other topic). Squier has had or currently has the Jagmaster, Cyclone, 51, M80s, and other models that weren't just exact clones of Fender guitars, though they do have those too, but I think Squier is actually more innovative than Epiphone in that way.

As far as endorsements, I got no problem with them, I am just saying that just because Guitar Hero guy or someone else uses this or that doesn't make me want to buy it, because if I wasn't going to buy it before someone endorsed it, I wouldn't buy it just because someone now endorses it...anyways....


Well, nothing would get done without advertising...and putting a good foot forward. A lot of what is bought is based purely on subjective...and not objective notions. But, as another poster said, "put the hot rods out there and see what happens".

Here's another thing to consider in terms of technology....I posted in another thread about how nanotechnology is really showing a lot of innovations that cannot be ignored by the music industry. Plastic that's supposedly as strong as steel...paint that can change colors depending on how it refracts light...

You could literally build a guitar that sounds great, weighs less and changes color...and raw materials-wise, it would be cheaper since you're not buying steel or another ore. (You could even have graphic fret markers with the plastic because they're based on the tensile strength of mother-of-pearl.)

It seems to me that Squire would be a great testing market. But if something does go wrong, Fender has to stand behind it...you can't just throw something out there and not expect it to eventually come back to you.

As far as marketing goes, though? It starts with the trade magazines and works its way out. As far as traditional examples of this...I can't help but look at companies like Ibanez (who were sort of laughed at until the late 1980's when they picked up some key endorsements) and Yamaha which wasn't taken seriously but now has a lot of respect over their Pacifica series guitars...which can be had for a reasonable cost.

Pricing...

And as far as price goes? Well....You know, I liked SRV too, but I can't see paying 17 thousand dollars for a guitar that sort of looks beat up and has what appears to be some letters that you can buy off a Home Depot or Lowe's.

(Talk about pricey!) :P


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:43 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:42 am
Posts: 258
mustangtoo wrote:
Man, this sounds like a class in marketing. A lot of it makes sense but I would never pay more than $200 for a Squire. Sorry but I'll pay the extra money only if I'm buying the brand name whether is is Fender, Goodyear or Maytag.

I like the innovation idea. They kind of did that with the Stagemasters neckthru guitars and aftermarket tremolos. I'd like to see more experementation with Squier guitars and what better brand to try it on. Throw these hot rods out there and see what kind of reaction you get!


That's the battle right there.

"Won't pay more than 200 for 'em"

There's a reason for that. As for marketing, yeah, you're right...this is just a conversation about marketing.

But as noted in my original post, marketing wise the newer generation is more times often than not "going for those other guy's guitars."

(Well, I suppose there's the telecasters which are staples of Nashville...but wow....)


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:37 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:58 pm
Posts: 779
Location: Miami
Quote:
Here's another thing to consider in terms of technology....I posted in another thread about how nanotechnology is really showing a lot of innovations that cannot be ignored by the music industry. Plastic that's supposedly as strong as steel...paint that can change colors depending on how it refracts light...

You could literally build a guitar that sounds great, weighs less and changes color...and raw materials-wise, it would be cheaper since you're not buying steel or another ore. (You could even have graphic fret markers with the plastic because they're based on the tensile strength of mother-of-pearl.)


Wow, that is some wild stuff that needs to be tried out. I'm sure the cosmetic stuff is coming out. But I think a lot of this is being done in a small scale at very high prices like PRS and their carbon necks which they soon after switched back to wood. Not to mention Steinberg and their outrageous prices for the trans-trem which they discontinued. I think Ed Roman posted that they were too expensive to manufacture even after he had bought the machinery and patent because you couldn't cast the parts. They had to be hand made. What about the Randy Rhodes metal guitar? The list goes on and on. But you are right Squier is missing the boat.

I wouldn't give out too many specific ideas unless you get paid but keep up the research.

Maybe we should try some of this stuff out ourselves. I've been pondering a Trans Trem bridge for a long time.




[/img]


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:06 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:08 pm
Posts: 2472
Location: Virginia
You can build guitars with that stuff, but until those things are proven to sound just as good as the orignal and becmoe widely accepted and used, they will never win over. From Dan Armstrong guitars to Steinbergers, innovative designs that some people still love today, but never caught on well to the masses. I can see how color shifting-LED lighted necks and stuff may appeal to some people, but perhaps I am just now realizng that at the age of 32 I am rather old school and just think that its too much like guitars imitating Guitar Hero, instead of Guitar Hero imitating guitars...but like I said, maybe I am just an old guy....

_________________
RAMA LAMA FA FA FA


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:28 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:42 am
Posts: 258
bowlfreshener wrote:
You can build guitars with that stuff, but until those things are proven to sound just as good as the orignal and becmoe widely accepted and used, they will never win over. From Dan Armstrong guitars to Steinbergers, innovative designs that some people still love today, but never caught on well to the masses. I can see how color shifting-LED lighted necks and stuff may appeal to some people, but perhaps I am just now realizng that at the age of 32 I am rather old school and just think that its too much like guitars imitating Guitar Hero, instead of Guitar Hero imitating guitars...but like I said, maybe I am just an old guy....


No worries mate...I'm 37.

But as far as Squires go...well, ya gotta look at who's buying 'em....kids. I like old-school stuff too....but there's always going to be room for innovation.

If there wasn't...heck, we'd all still be playing...well....we wouldn't be playing solid body electrics...

EDIT: Speaking of which...LED's? Hmm....Wouldn't it be cool if you had a guitar where the pickups could light up safely ala Ace Frehley of KISS?

:wink:


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:41 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:44 am
Posts: 7282
Location: Washington
A lot of guys who weren't kids were buying and modding the Squier '51s.

That was a successful model. More of that kind of thing would be very welcome: a fun guitar that can be turned into a personal thing.

_________________
Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:51 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:31 am
Posts: 940
Yes, this is a conversation about marketing... and this is not intended as an insult, but it is a conversation among people who don't know enough about marketing to even begin discussing it.

There is an extremely wide range of management disciplines that come under the heading of marketing - product management, distribution channel management and database management, for example - but most people who don't work in the field think that "marketing" consists almost entirely of advertising, PR and "image" (something that would be more accurately called "brand management"), and that this image can be manipulated independently of the other aspects of marketing.

Well, it can't. From where I sit, Fender has done a remarkable job of resurrecting the Squier brand, has used it to open new channels and excite new demographics, and has no intention or desire to use it the way Gibson uses Epiphone. Some of Fender's recent big successes have come from the Squier brand, it is attracting young players to a Fender preference (just read the threads on this forum for confirmation), and they have used it to kite some radical ideas (the '51, the Venus, etc.).

So, the basic premise of this discussion - that Squier needs a facelift, is somehow unsuccessful compared to, say, Epiphone and isn't making money for FMIC - is off target.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: