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Post subject: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:25 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Fender has determined the optimum nut width size for their standard American adult-sized guitars to be 43mm. So are they making Squiers strictly for children with their 42mm nut width? Why are no Squiers/Affinity/Bullets/whatever made for adults? Are all children poor and all adults rich (enough to buy an American-made Fender)?

This just doesn't make any sense. You'd think there'd be at least ONE line of Squiers with 43mm nuts. But no, you have to pay $500+ more just to get the 1mm larger nut width, which is for me, a critical playing difference.

Hardly makes any sense beyond a cynical marketing strategy on Fender's part to force adults to pay way more for a playable guitar, when their cheaper Squier guitars are perfectly acceptable for many adults save the child-sized nut-width.

Fender COULD make a 43mm neck in the Squier range. But of course, they won't.


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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:23 pm
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2 reasons - take your pick

(a) so parts are not easily interchangeable

Or

(b) Apart from the USA ( which uses Imperial) , everybody uses METRIC measurements, and US mfctrd guitar diamensions are converted from Imperial to metric.

See Fender website for product details - all in Imperial, with bracketed metric diamensions.


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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:35 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Incorrect. American Strats and Teles (exclusive of customs reflecting vintage or autographed artist custom preferences) are 1 11/16" nut width. Squiers are routinely 1 5/8" nut width, but incredibly actually go down from there into fetus-finger widths on some of the cheaper Affinity/Bullet models.

The irony is that when adult electric players are actually given choices as to what their fave nut width is (which isn't very often) they tend to gravitate to 1 3/4" width (which is on the narrow side for acoustic guitars). 2" and above are standard for classical guitars, and Flamenco guitars get way wide.

40-41mm is strictly for aliens or Benjamin Button.


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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:05 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Most adult market quality electric guitars are 43mm/1 11/16" nut width.

Exactly my point. I think Squiers/Affinities are pretty damned good guitars for their price, so why not make at least SOME in a nut width that Fender itself deems appropriate for the average adult finger/hand size as specified in their American Standard series (and most of their American-made guitars)? Is a 1/16th wider neck really such a prohibitive cost issue?

But for me and many other players with average to large adult-sized fingers and hands, it's a critical performance difference. Very difficult for me to play clean on a 42mm neck. Going to a 43mm neck is like night and day.


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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:31 am
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Musicmaster2 wrote:
But for me and many other players with average to large adult-sized fingers and hands, it's a critical performance difference. Very difficult for me to play clean on a 42mm neck. Going to a 43mm neck is like night and day.


I don't think the problem is a single millimeter difference in nut width. That translates to 17 one-hundredths of a millimeter wider spacing. Go compare that width on a metric ruler to the width of your fingers and realize what a TINY difference that is.

I'd suggest practicing enough to know where the strings are on your instrument. Then you won't need to make up silly excuses for being a sloppy player.


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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:10 pm
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Isn't it interesting, when I've seen nut-width threads in non-dead forums unlike this one, threads that actually get lots of interested pro players commenting about nut width, the nearly universally agreed point is that there's a HUGE difference between the American standard 1 11/16ths and the child-sized "cheap foreign-built" 1 5/8ths. That's why Fender makes the American Standards that way--for adult hands. They are clearly preferred by adult players.

Fender sees the difference as important. I rely on their judgement.

A number of the posters chime in about going to Warmoth necks and getting up to 1 3/4" widths, and how that's even BETTER than 1 11/16ths! It helps bending, articulation, and cleanliness of performance by separating the strings more.

Some of the posters with tiny hands/fingers tolerate 1 5/8ths, which is to be expected. It's true what they say about hand size.

But here, we get ignorant trolls looking to merely to insult for insult's sake. Pathetic.


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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:56 pm
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The simple answer is.......

Squiers are girl guitars.

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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:39 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Squiers, especially these new Classic Vibe Strats, are getting surprisingly good. Great bang-for-buck. Which really answers the question as to why Fender won't even allow the option of an adult-size neck width: They know dang well they'd be cannibalizing their low-end American-made sales: Highway One and American Standard.

And by the time you tacked on a Warmoth between tuners and labor, you might as well buy a Highway One and be done with it. Complete with "Fender" on the headstock.

The CVs are almost 1/3 the price! You stick a 43mm neck on em and they'd be flying out the door, to adult players! Problem for Fender is: their margin on the CVs is way lower than on the American axes.

Squiers are supposed to be loss-leaders for Fender. Get the player hooked on the cheap one, and he'll buy upmarket in-brand next time. You stick a 43mm on em and lots of players would happy to stay right where they are. No incentive to move up-market.


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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:14 pm
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Jeffytune wrote:
The simple answer is.......

Squiers are girl guitars.


Hahaha..

I guess I get in touch with my feminine side a lot then.

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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:20 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Well they do make great girl guitars, especially with those narrow necks. But they make great guitars for the money, too. Maybe only Ibanez can challenge them quality-for-quality in this price range. Except Ibanez makes necks for GUYS, too.


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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:30 pm
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Musicmaster2 wrote:

But here, we get ignorant trolls looking to merely to insult for insult's sake. Pathetic.


Interesting. You find advice that you may need to practice more an insult, after you've already stated you can't play cleanly. You'd rather blame the problem on lack of a millimeter in nut width.

If you want to play cleaner, practice more. It's not the neck's fault. Stop blaming your tools for your lack of skill.


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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:54 am
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I find arrogance and ignorance of any kind insulting, but put the two together in an ad hominem attack and it's literally ban-able. Bye bye.

Now back to the OP's subject without flame from trolls.

If more inexpensive guitars shipped with 1 3/4" nut widths, there would be a lot of revelations amongst players who had been trapped in the 42mm ghetto. Folks just don't get the chance to play nice, wide necks except in acoustic guitars. Why should they have all the fun?


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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:19 am
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Hi. New on the forum.

I suspect there's another issue here, though. I have modded a couple of Squiers at this point and what I found most objectionable wasn't so much the nut width (didn't really think of it) but rather the string spacing. For my taste, the outer strings were pulled in too far from the edges of the neck, more noticeably the 6th string (low E), making the whole thing more cramped than it needs to be. I like easy access to that 6th string with my thumb and getting to it on the (Bullet) Squier was a painful thing. I made a new nut and was able to space the strings identically to my old Fender guitar which does have the wider neck (and smoother fingerboard edges) and still fit that string spacing comfortably on the Bullet neck. I shifted it a little so the 6th string was closer to the edge than the 1st string. I like the space at the 1st string so I can do pull-offs without falling off the edge.

I still have to admit I slightly prefer the '63 Esquire neck, but now that I've rounded the edges of the Bullet neck (with a fret leveling file) the difference is almost negligible. Close enough for me to reach for the Bullet as often as I do the Fender.

Zed


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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:56 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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That's a very good point. Of course nut width defines how much space you have to space the strings, but ultimately it's the spacing that determines how that space is allocated. My fear of wider string spacing is always around the chance of the high-E slipping off the fret. I have that exact problem on my Variax.

But given the relatively narrow 42mm nut width of the Squiers, certainly bunching the strings up even tighter within that is going to get awfully cramped. A new nut with wider spacing could certainly help, up to a point of course.


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Post subject: Re: Why no adult-sized nut widths?
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:19 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I have to throw my 2 cents in here. I guess I'm not the average guy. Been playing for 40+ yrs. I've played classical, 6 & 12 string acoustics, fender and gibson electric's and about every other brand. I play each one a little different. I prefer a thin neck on an electric, a wider neck on an acoustic for flat pickin. Never cared for most Gibsons due to the wider neck and I don't care for the flat neck's like on the newer Ibanez's. I don't have small hands. But maybe I'm used to thin necks because I played violin before guitar. Anyway Bottom Line is "To Each His Own". If it were any different all guitars would be the same.


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