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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:41 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Well if the guitar is not outputting a not in the first place the MidiOx or MidiPipe can't do to much with it! There were/are major note dropout problems with the YRG based on sensitivity issues. Especially when attempting any fingerpicking.

Right now, the button-based Mustang from Mad Katz seems to be picking up steam as a far better cheap midi controller alternative. Especially at $118/free shipping/no tax! Some guy even built a control app for the Mac for it.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire (quick and dirty tuning)
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:07 pm
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Ok I saw one on the shelf at my local best buy this morning, bought it and then cancelled my preorder. Saved me $30. First thing I noticed is how bad out of tune it sounded so I immediately started looking for a way to tune it without going to a shop just yet. Here is a video with instructions based on the information I found on the internet. Im sure its not 100% accurate but should give you better results than out of box. I am not a musician and do not claim to be but hopefully this will help others in the same situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxtUp38mZgY


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:28 pm
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Everybody's comments here have been valuable to me. This guitar is certainly a prototype and a brilliant test of marketing and an incredible success; there will be incarnations that cater to a different demographic.

An important technology has been issued and will be a contender in the next however many years. Can't wait..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdSLLx1B ... r_embedded


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:17 pm
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The mute bar is supposed to be engaged to prevent string detection errors by the pickup, (it's in same place as any regular guitar pickup). This is only with regards to right hand string play though. It won't effect anything you do on the fret board if the mute bar isn't used.
Even at that you can still play in-game without the mute bar. All that's needed is to adjust the pickup height till it reads consistently, you can then play in-game with an amp hooked up and hear from both the tv and amp.
The frets look to be segmented, but I can't feel any division in them when I slide my finger across one. As far as accuracy of the fret sensors goes they're flawless, (on mine anyway) and I spent over an hour just trying to get a bad read from one. I was all over the neck and the thing is spot on.
The obvious reason there's no adjustments on the guitar or midi pro is due to possible issues with people screwing up settings and not being able to fix the problems. Again remember the target audience.

Any time you think about this guitar you've got to remember three very important facts...

#1 It was designed by a game company for in-game use, and had to keep it's target audience in mind. That audience is people with little to no guitar experience, and wanting an accurate in-game control method that's also a real guitar,
#2 It had to be priced within reason for a game controller, and even at the $279.00 price point, there are still plenty of people that $@!&* about it's cost.
#3 The reason the name Fender is on the guitar at all is due to public name recognition, marketing, manufacturing experience, and Harmonix's familiarity with the company.

With the exception of The Beatles RB, all the controllers that have been made for the RB games have been Fenders. Even the controllers that Mad Catz makes have been Fender branded and shaped. Fender was contacted to make the wooden versions of the Mad Catz controllers and the Squier because they already make low cost wooden versions of their own guitars and work with wood all the time.

The best recommendation I can give to people that are interested in seeing this turned into a full on midi controller would be to contact Harmonix and tell them. They do listen to peoples requests. I highly doubt they'd want to go much farther with this tech in the midi direction themselves since they're a game company and probably don't want to turn themselves into a hardware manufacturer. Especially since they've turned all plastic controller manufacturing over to Mad Catz.
But since the company is made up of musicians, (everyone in the company is in a band) it's very likely that they've already considered a midi option for the Squier. A little goading may be all that's needed to have them license the tech out for predominantly midi use. It's also possible they're waiting to see what the market does with the Squier before developing the tech any further. They've met the goal they set out to achieve with the Squier already, and are probably well on their way to having something totally new and innovative brought to fruition. It may be a midi controller.

Two last points...
The midi pro outputs to usb and has a switch on it to allow it to be used with a keyboard, guitar, or drums. I don't know if that makes any difference for midi use.

The manual recommends that you play the Squier with a pick.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:47 am
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You're talking about the midi pro adapter right? That's an interesting observation.

Maybe the MIDI signal gets converted to something easier to work with. I know with my GHWT drums, the PS3 MIDI signal was able to feed into my PC, which worked out with the right drivers.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:58 am
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Yes.
The midi pro will hook into a pc.
I also have the RB keyboard that has a midi output on it.
What's a good piece of software to test it out with?
I've never fooled around with midi much.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:56 am
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Cheers for the updates people. You shouldn't need the mad catz midi adapter if using it with a PC. As it can just plug from the midi out on the guitar to whatever contraption you are using. Be it a midi in to USB or a Nord. Having said that though I ain't that sure.

I can't wait to see what it's note on off method for midi use will be like. Some people saying you get extra hits without the dampner. This might be the same when using midi. Still there is more and more information coming about to make it more accurate.

Think I might be sold. I'm too inpatient.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:11 am
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It's a given you don't need the midi pro if you have the hardware to hook midi to a pc already. I don't have a midi card or other interface on my pc at the moment. So the pro will be of use to see what it can do without the wait for any extra hardware.

The extra strums without the mute being engaged is why they say you should have mute on when playing in-game. But again, you can adjust that out of it with the two philips screws, (one on each side) of the pickup. You can then play amped and through the midi port, (either on pc or in-game) at the same time.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:49 am
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Cheers for the information Gamer1st. Would be really grateful to know if your opinions have changed ?

You should only need a midi-in to usb to be able to use it with your PC although different midi I/O hardware my have better drivers or faster latency than others.

Gamer1st - "What's a good piece of software to test it out with?
I've never fooled around with midi much."

Try using it with Ableton live which should come with the guitar. (Seems like they were marketing of Midi usage considering they are giving away a midi sequencer)

Midi instruments (Vsti, Au, softsynths ect.) are always a bit of dark art. Some cost 1000s of $$$ where others are made for the open source community and can be got for free.

In a sequencer like Cubase, Reason or Ableton live these software synths can be installed as plug-ins but sometimes require an actual installer.

Once you have it connected to your PC and the PC registers it as a midi device you should be able to load up Ableton live. (Many sequencers, free and expensive can do this)

Once the sequencer is opened if you create 6 midi channels from an empty project you should then be able to specify which VSTi/soft synth you would like for each channel. At this point you might need to jig the Pc settings about a bit depending on the the Midi IN-USB or whatever set up you are using. However I don't think this should be too complex. If it finds the midi device (the guitar) then it should already be mapped to channels 1 - 6.

Personally if I had one i would just choose some rubbish piano synth for all channels and test it out using a metronome at around 60 bpm doing crotchets quavers ect ect to see when responsiveness curves off. The dampener will probably make a big difference along with set-up of the saddles, pickup ect ect

Some people seem to think that the responsiveness of the midi might be more responsive than the game due to the latency of the game itself but I ain't sure about that.

Hope it helps and I am not being too patronising and repetitive. I am following a few different forums trying to find out more info on it as a midi controller. So might be getting mixed up between the forums.

Cheeers


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:04 pm
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I hate that it outputs to six separate channels. that's nothing but a hassle when you just want to control a piano or strings or an organ. Same problem I have with the Yamaha: It's fine when you have a sample that can be toggled to OMNI (plays all channels), but some VSTis can respond to only one channel at a time and it's a huge hassle to "omni-ize" six channels down to one or split that sample six ways.

I tell ya, paying attention to the Squire has ironically got me increasingly stoked on the Mad Katz Mustang for midi. For some reason, they took midi much more seriously with that axe and a lot of guys are already using it successfully as a midi controller at way less than half the cost of the Squier Strat ($118 vs $279). Apparently Mad Katz did a great job of building very precise, responsive buttons into it. I'm hearing some remarkably glitch-free performances from it on YouTube. And they set it up right right out of the box: It just sends out one channel at a time, or OMNI. It doesn't have separate channels per string, which I understand is a big deal to nerds, but I can't see ever using it considering you can layer all the parts you need in midi and don't have to play six instruments at once!

Maybe the Squier will equal or surpass the Mustang for midi, but nobody ever posts a midi review so apparently we'll never find out!


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:15 pm
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I plugged the midi pro into my pc and it recognized it immediately with no drivers needed. It then recognized the guitar as a human interface device also as soon as hooked up, and again, no drivers were needed.

I'm currently a little over an hour away from having a copy of Ableton 8.1.1 ready to install.

What do you want to know once it's up and running?

Actually, the better question would be what the hell do I do with it once it's up and running. Other than seeing midi software running on a screen or two over the years, I have no idea how to work with it.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:31 pm
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Get a VSTi plug-in running on a track, an acoustic piano would be a good starter, and just try to play it. See how it tracks, check for glitches, ghost-notes and note dropouts. Check for both chords and note runs, then try a pick, then soft finger-picking. See how responsive it is to different velocity inputs. In other words, screw around with it for a while.

You'd be the first to post any midi review of this on the planet. Seriously. Nobody's done it yet. Thanks so much, Fender.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:37 pm
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I'll see what I can see. It's still got about 30 mins to go.
I could tape it and post to Youtube but I don't know if that would be of use or not. If it would, let me know specifically what you'd want to see.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:01 pm
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Wow, thanks Gamer!

Personally, I'd like to see if the Squier could be coerced into working with GuitarPro 6's MIDI capture ability. The trial version of GP6 should have this functionality.

If you have time, I would be grateful if you try that out!

I used to write a lot of guitar tabs, but they take a pretty long time to write and format. Being able to have it automatically tabbed out would be great!


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:35 pm
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I have good news and bad news.

The good is the software's installed and working. The guitars plugged in and recognized by windows. I got my outputs setup in ableton.
The bad is I have no clue what to do next.
The next step is to get the device recognized or to manually map it. None of the selections they list for instruments are correct, (which makes sense since it's so new) and I can't figure out the manual mapping part.
I need a tutorial, or some form of help to get the rest of this software setup. The program has several tutorials with it but none cover midi instrument setup. So I'm stuck.
Any ideas?


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