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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:08 am
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I have no idea what you're going on about, but I'm in good company since you don't seem to know either.
Since this thread began you've made quite a few predictions about the controller/guitar, (release date, pricing, and so on) and all of them, up to this point, have been wrong.
For some reason you're following the status of a product made for a game you obviously have nothing but disdain for, and know nothing about.
Why you're so concerned with the price and usefulness of the Squire at all is puzzling, since there are many better options out there for a "real" musician.
You may want to get a job. Then that extra $100.00 the Squire costs will be in your price range.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:46 am
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I have read through the thread and have to agree with Gamer1st in wondering why someone who is expressing obvious dislike for rhythm type games is even devoting any time to a thread about a controller for that type of game. Your certainly entitled to your opinion though.

I think this guitar is going to do ok provided it does not exhibit issues with registering the input. If there are issues in that area then it will most likely turn into frustration quickly as far as being a learning tool along with the RB3 game. Since it cannot be used as a regular controller it needs to work without issue in that respect, otherwise it becomes almost useless.

Im probably in the group that is buying this because I like playing the game but I would also like to try and learn to actually play. The game certainly turned me onto drums and I almost immediately purchased a digital drum kit that I play as a drum kit but also use as a controller via midi interface on the game.

There is no doubt that this game genre has inspired some to take interest in learning to play a musical instrument. If this guitar allows them to move forward then its a good thing. I believe that if this works well at all we will soon see software for the PS3 and other consoles that is strictly dedicated to learning to play. I would not be surprised if some is not already in development.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:58 pm
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Bottom line: if Fender utilized its massive R&D dept. and actually makes this work for midi inputing, there are a lot of players out there now who would never have considered a midi controller before but will move at this price point. In other words, Fender will have created a new market. The dollar figure for what that would deliver would be trivial.

But in the toy market, this price point is way over the top, and it's answering a question nobody was asking: "I need to learn to play real guitar while zapping silly colored jellybeans coming at me!" Right.

Add in the fact that the Rock game phenom/fad has peaked as Activision will tell you, and this surely ain't gonna de-fibrillate the corpse.

The Rock Game is dead...long live the midi controller!!!


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:28 pm
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I am not sure if you understand Pro mode. It's not "silly colored jelly beans" coming at you, it's full six string tablature and chord names. The game aspect allows you to choose a level from playing single note lines to basic chords to the entire guitar part while the game adds in the missing pieces and a backing band. Add a training mode where the speed can be adjusted and you can see the possibilities.

Kids who just want a simple video game may not want the controller but the market for musical instruction won't blink at a couple hundred bucks so long as it works. And if your target family already owns the game then you are half way to their wallets.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:20 pm
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DavidOwen wrote:
I am not sure if you understand Pro mode. It's not "silly colored jelly beans" coming at you, it's full six string tablature and chord names. The game aspect allows you to choose a level from playing single note lines to basic chords to the entire guitar part while the game adds in the missing pieces and a backing band. Add a training mode where the speed can be adjusted and you can see the possibilities.

Kids who just want a simple video game may not want the controller but the market for musical instruction won't blink at a couple hundred bucks so long as it works. And if your target family already owns the game then you are half way to their wallets.


Well put. I am that target family. But realize you attempting to reason with someone "not me", that from their post ,obviously hates the genre and believes that it could not possibly be a learning tool. I have played pro mode already with the mustang and it works very well. I only hope the fender works as well or better. Im not purchasing the Fender on hopes that its an awesome guitar. My only expectation is to learn basic guitar. If I choose to progress more and the game / guitar cannot take me there, then I will take other steps but I believe the setup will be more than enough.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:48 am
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Musicmaster2 wrote:
Bottom line: if Fender utilized its massive R&D dept. and actually makes this work for midi inputing, there are a lot of players out there now who would never have considered a midi controller before but will move at this price point. In other words, Fender will have created a new market. The dollar figure for what that would deliver would be trivial.

You are overstating Fender's involvement in this. Fender is supplying the guitar, with requested mods for the MIDI controller. The lion's share of the R&D came from Harmonix, who have been working on this for over two years (and had the foundations for Pro Mode drums going back at least to RB2).

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A bunch of Strats, some Gibsons, a couple clonewheels, a few Fender amps, various stompboxes


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:02 am
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Fender won't put its name (or Squier for that matter) on substandard crap that doesn't work. They have too much at stake. Fender never would have released the YouRock guitar no matter who developed it or how many layers they could say it was removed from them.

They spent a gazillion bucks building up these brands Fender and Squier. They're not going to ship busted junk like the YouRock.

Now reports are that this is one crappy guitar. But it's about what you'd expect for a couple of hundred bucks. In the Bullet/Affinity sphere of quality. But it's playable and it works both as a guitar, and a game controller, for what it's worth.

Perhaps it works as a midi controller as well.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:23 pm
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MusicMaster--

I too bought into the YouRock MIDI controller fantasy. It's incredibly frustrating that a decent-tracking MIDI guitar is so hard to come by. The Roland GK3 is just okay. The Ztars are out of my price range and not guitary enough anyway. So I was hopeful that the Squier would be the ticket.

HOWEVA...I'm discouraged by the nearly complete lack of attention being paid to it's MIDI potential. A cursory glance at eBay suggests the market is READY for this to be a viable, competitive option. Look at the friggin' GR systems being sold. See the Godins, Axon units, hex pickups, etc...

I don't care about the video game either. I just want a MIDI guitar that tracks nicely and doesn't cost a fortune. I think a lot of us want that, but if this were the answer, you'd think they'd drop a hint or two


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:46 pm
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Yeah, what's really maddening is, Premier Guitar does this whole review, with NO MENTION of even trying out its midi tracking! WHAT??? That's like reviewing an automobile on its looks only. Another online review, same deal, game BS only.

And Fender NEVER had anybody demonstrate the midi tracking, ever. It's this dismissed and ignored by-product when it should be the lead.

Well, in 30 days it goes to general release to a wide variety of stores--I assume toy stores and game stores and some dept. stores so I'm expecting a price drop and wide availability. Right now Best Buy is way backed-up. Sounds like they pre-ordered about 10 of em nationwide. Typical Best Buy botch job. The unit is 100% unavailable on Launch Day. Good work, BB!

Will ANYBODY in the known universe please hook this thing up to Garageband or something and give us a %^&^%$# midi tracking report???


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:50 am
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I picked the one we'd ordered up from Worst Buy today. That was an adventure let me tell you.
We'd pre-ordered it the end of January and it was listed all the way up till Monday night as being due for release Tuesday. I'd even called them to make sure there were no problems, and to find out where it would ship from.
Got up Tuesday morn and it's listed as back ordered. Needless to say I saw red. I called the C.S. line and asked what the hell was going on and was told that they were "completely out of stock" already and it would be another two to three weeks before it showed if luck was with us.
I asked why there were so many of the stores listing them as being in stock if they were all gone, and was told that they were actually sold out and just had to update their software.
I didn't buy that line for a second.
I called two of the stores closest to me that showed them in stock and found that they did indeed have them in stock, (even though it was only one at one place and two at the other). I went ahead and canceled my preorder after having them hold one for me, and changed the order to a "pick up at location".
We have it now.
I no longer have any kind of midi setup to test it with, (I had a first gen Line 6 Variax and effects board for several years but sold them last year.) and I don't have midi on any of my pcs.
First impressions are about what I expected.
The neck and body are both wood, (the neck's maple) and it's a full sized normal wieght guitar. The finger board is plastic, but is textured in such a way as to feel fairly woodish. Harmonix used an ingenious method for keeping the fret and strings presses separate. Originally I'd heard that there was a heat sensor in each fret that would detect finger position, but I couldn't see that working very well. What if you've had one fret held for a while and the sensor warms up? What if your finger's a little too far to either side of the string? Either would cause false readings.
What they did is to have each fret divided into sections. They mostly look like normal frets, but have a layer of something, (plastic, heat sink, or something else) wrapped around each fret like a stripe on a barber pole. Each lap comes directly in between each string so the fret is isolated from string to string. I can't feel the wrapping when playing but it can be seen. The body of the guitar and the paint job look better than most low end guitars I've seen. It doesn't beat my Schecter or Ibanez but they cost twice as much and I have to say it looks good for the price. I've noticed no string buzz yet, but I'm sure it will have to be set up properly and dialed in after it wears in a little.
I watched my boys play it in game, and so far they both claim that any missed notes are their fault and not from the guitar's end. It's funny to watch them go from having to hit five "notes" to having to deal with all 122 single note positions. As far as amp play goes it sounds like what it is, a starter level Squier.
When the boys head off to school tomorrow I'll play around with it some and post some further comments. If anyone has any specific questions about the Squier let me know and I'll do what I can to answer them.
A few other quick observations,
The midi cable that comes with it is pretty long at 10 feet. And this is the first guitar I've bought that comes with a fairly comprehensive manual, (excepting the Variax of course).
The midi info in the manual is as follows...
It has two modes, normal and synth. Normal is for note on events and synth generates note-on/ offs.
The red and green pickguard buttons send program change up and down messages. The default program is 27 for "clean electric guitar".
The yellow and blue buttons transpose notes up and down by one octave.
Midi pitchbend is also available, and can be turned on or off with the back and yellow buttons, and is controlled by the angle of the neck. (neck straight out cc value =0/ neck normal cc=64/ and neck up cc =127)
Midi expression is enabled by pressing the back and blue buttons and is controlled by the angle of the guitar's body. (pickup pointed down cc= 0/ pickup parallel to player [normal playing position] cc=64/ pickup facing ceiling cc=127)
Finally, pressing the start and back buttons cancels all notes.
Hope that helps.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:37 am
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Thanks, Gamer! Why would anyone want the "normal" midi position of note-ons only? I assume "Synth" is what you use when inputing to a sequencer or driving a VSTi.

This position thing for expression is confusing--you're supposed to swing the guitar around in all kinds of crazy positions to create "midi expression"? Huh? Sounds very weird.

All my local BB's said they had them before 3/1 and sold them all out. Thanks, BB! Sure was fair to the pre-order guys.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:15 am
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Gamer1st--

Sorry you got jerked around like that, bud. Thanks for posting what you could. Sadly your post is the most comprehensive assesment of its MIDI features I've seen. Enjoy the new ax


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:57 pm
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The positioning isn't as bad when you can see what they want. It sounds bad when you just give the text with no pics.

The first one is just holding the guitar normally and raising the neck up to alter the sound.
The other's a little harder to explain but not bad.

Just hold the neck as usual, and put your right hand on the bottom of the guitar where the strap stud is. Then just rotate the body to alter the sound.

That's assuming of course that you're not a lefty.

EDIT>>>

A little more info on what they mean by midi note-on/ offs in synth mode. Normal mode is fingered fret and strummed. Synth is just a fingered fret with no strum needed. So you can play the neck like a keyboard without the need to strum at all.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:15 pm
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Hm, that implies that there's no hammer-ons/offs in "normal" mode--the mode that allows right-hand picking. And when you do turn on hammer-ons, it turns off picking.

Yikes, this IS one crude little YouRock guitar clone! Except even the YRG allows a mix of plectrum and hammer-on/offs. These days, combining the two is standard practice. Making it either/or is a major dealkiller.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:41 pm
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MusicMaster--

To me it sounds like the same handling as the YRG's tap mode. You can still hammer/pull when TAP is disabled.

The suspense is killin' me. Leaves plenty of room for crackpot theories. Here's one:

Fender is reserving their MIDI marketing expenditure for a new, as-yet unannounced MIDI controller that will utilize the technology in this Squier. In fact, It'll be just like this Squier except a lot more money 'cause it'll be a Fender.

...that's pretty cynical, but... ya know.... that's what I'm reduced to.


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