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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:55 pm
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Oops, Activision just killed "Guitar Hero". Is Fender selling this into a dying genre, too little, too late?


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:27 pm
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DiNozo74 wrote:
Or maybe they are waiting for us to preorder before taking a decision, and we are waiting for a date to preorder ...
If it was canceled, I would be a bit disappointed, but at least I would stop waiting for it ...
But I've been waiting for this since it has been first announced, and I'm still waiting. What is annoying me the most is the fact that we don't even know if it will be released one day or if we're wasting our time.

AFAIK, these are still a few weeks away from the original planned ship date (March 1st): http://www.rockband.com/blog/squier-pri ... lease-date

I will say that I don't know anyone who would pre-order a Squire guitar from Best Buy, knowing how hit-or-miss Squiers can be.

Musicmaster2 wrote:
Oops, Activision just killed "Guitar Hero". Is Fender selling this into a dying genre, too little, too late?

Activision pretty much coasted on the Guitar Hero franchise as long as they could without adding anything new or different. I mean, come on, DJ Hero? Seriously?

Hopefully, Rock Band 3's pro mode will be different and innovative enough to help attract the next generation of guitar players. Plus, their primary competition just closed up shop... :wink:

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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:46 am
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Still think Fender should market this as a standalone midi guitar. It would sell quite well into that market given the huge amount of guitar players now recording with a ton of free or bundled VSTis packed into their DAWs. Unless it really sucks as a midi guitar in which case, they shouldn't have given it a midi output in the first place.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:49 am
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I got to ask you guys though, maybe I´m alone on this forum with this but anyway...Simce I reaaaaally want to pre order the squire right now, and I was going to but when I was about to check out. *pling* you don´t live in the states yo looser and therefore you won´t and can´t get the squire right now!! F****ing $@!&, well it didnt say that but allmost... I live in sweden and where will I find the squire on a site where I´m actually are getting it from? :shock:


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:36 am
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Honestly, whether you are looking for this to use with RockBand 3 or as just a MIDI guitar, you might want to wait a week or two after they are released to see how well they work IRL before spending your hard-earned cash. Especially if you had to order one from across the pond...

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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:11 pm
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Yeah, my concern on the midi side is they'll run into the same issues that the similarly-priced YouRock did: glitches, major response sensitivity problems, tricky hammer-on/hammer-off issues, sliding issues, etc. When you have an axe this cheap, it's very tough to make it work out of the box.

And since Fender is not marketing this thing mainly as a midi guitar, they're not likely to throw much time or effort behind support for it as such. It's basically a toy.

So definitely hold off until reports start coming in. Especially at $279 which is list price. Nobody ever pays list price for any Fender anything.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:32 am
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is this guitar going to be released anymore ?

the page is gone... nothing on amazon........ it doesn't sound good.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:38 pm
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http://www.fender.com/promos/2010/rockband3
Still there, no sky falling.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:06 am
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For the people wondering about using the controller/guitar in RB3, have any of you played RB3 with either the new keyboard or the Mustang controller? If not, the speculation and comments about the game and guitar being for "daycare", and the target audience advice for the Squire is just so much hot air.
The reality of the situation, is the game has a large core of dedicated people that want, and will pay for the Squire, even if the midi is only useful for in game play. Any out of game use the guitar/controller has other than straight amp hookup is just icing on the cake to those buyers.

There was a time you could say RB was just a game and had very little to do with music and be completely accurate. That time has passed. If you want, you still have the option to play the game the way it's been played since it was first released. But now you also have the option to play several "pro modes" on keys, drums, and guitar/bass as well. If you choose a Pro mode the game aspect switches from a 90/10 split to more like a 20/80 split in favor of music over game. If you think I'm kidding, I challenge anyone to play a Pro mode song on expert, (where you'll be playing all the notes in the song) using all the strings, frets, keys, drums/cymbals or whatever the case may be, for the instrument you choose. There's no way any honest person can play a song on pro mode, end up with an even slightly respectable score and still refer to RB3 as just a "game".

There have been people playing drums seriously since RB2 was released, and more so now that cymbals are enabled in game with pro mode. There are more people than I can count that have drum sets in the low $300.00 range and going well over the $800.00 mark. These are actual full on electronic drum sets made by the likes of Alesis and Yamaha that can be used with an adapter on the consoles. So paying $320.00 for the Squire and adapter combined is nothing to an even semi serious RB hobbyist. I also think the separate sale of the midi pro adapter is a smart move. You used to have separate controllers made for each console, which forced you to buy an entire controller for each console you played on. Now you just buy one guitar and add however many midi pro's you need.
As far as the proper marketing of the Squire, I think they're right on the money. If they wanted to offer a cheap midi guitar they could have done that, (or at least tried) and left the game part out all together. The fact that they didn't suggests a different marketing strategy. The obvious target is the current gamer who they hope will use the Squire as a stepping stone to a higher priced/ better quality regular guitar or bass. If they market the Squire as a cheap midi option, they'll have to deal with the expectations that would entail. You also have to bear in mind that this isn't just a Fender project, and they more than likely don't own all the tech themselves. The Squire shouldn't be thought of as a very expensive game controller that most people won't buy. It should be looked at as a stepping stone for the gamer that wants to get more involved with music, and who wants to learn actual guitar/bass play in an environment they're already used to and comfortable with. Or at the very least, to take their RB experience to the next level, since most serious players, (as serious as you can be in a game anyway) have already mastered the basic gameplay elements, and will relish the new challenge offered by pro mode.
I also wouldn't expect to see any price breaks on a Squire for a good six months to over a year either. It may say Fender on it, but this is not just a standard marked-up guitar that dealers will discount well below the MSRP.
For the record, I'm a 43 year old father of two teen-aged boys. I've already got a Squire reserved. I'm curious to see if they'll take up the extra challenge and actually learn to play guitar, in addition to drums and keys that they both started playing in the "game". They both now play in a real band and I have RB3 to thank for that. I have several "real" guitars that I've played since my teens and hope they'll get more use soon. Time will tell.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:15 pm
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The price point is going to be a killer for volume sales. Sure early adopters and cutting edge folk will snap them up for top dollar. It's what happens after that that counts. Be interesting to see what channels Fender plans on moving this through beyond BB. Street has to end up in the $179 range.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:31 am
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Other retailers are already taking preorders, JR.com comes to mind right off hand but there are others.
I don't see your reasoning on the need for a price drop on the Squire. Harmonix already knows the rate of players for the game, and has had a good idea of the numbers they can expect for pro mode. I read an interview where a Harmonix rep stated that less than 5% of the people who play RB ever try the expert difficulty level and that's free and requires no extra equipment to play. They obviously know there will be far fewer people that will play pro mode, and fewer still that will buy a Squire, since many will go with the Mustang due to it's $149.00 price tag.
I'm sure they'd like to see a bunch sell so they can sell more pro tracks, but they already know their audience, and this is an item that's packed with a lot of tech. This is a very specialized market and it just doesn't work the same as regular musical instruments or the electronics markets. Most high end gaming peripherals sell for the price point the manufacturer mentions up front, with a very small fluctuation, (10% or less usually) offered by the very highest discounters. The only time you see a high end peripherals price drop by 1/3 is near the saturation level for the intended market, or at the end of life. The wooden Fender controller from Mad Catz is a good example. That was offered at a $300.00 price point and that price held for over a year. On a rare occasion you'd see one for maybe 10% off, but in general they stayed close to $300.00. In the last 14 months they've started to drop and can now be found for as low as $99.00. But that didn't start until they'd been out for over 18 months.
The Squire's far more complicated and does way more than the wooden Fender. If it drops below the $250.00 mark in under a year I'd be shocked. There's also Christmas to consider. Most people wait to buy high end items like this for the holidays, and that's still 9 months off with the strange release timing this has gotten. It's very unlikely to drop before the holidays and will likely be in short supply after them for a while as well. You'd be more likely to see them marked over the M.S.R.P., (Ebay gouging and so on) so soon after release than to be lower.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:24 am
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Very interesting analysis. You make good points Gamer1st.

I don't play 'real' drums but after trying a few songs on Pro, you can really get a feel for what is possible.

Having watched the promode for guitar on YouTube videos, I think the Squier controller could be an amazing learning tool. Not a complete replacement for a 'real' guitar but a wonderful supplement. I just hope sales are high enough to keep the product going but even if it crashes this time around the concept will certainly be back.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:35 pm
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Not a price drop, merely STREET price vs. MSRP. Fender products do not remain at MSRP beyond some brief gouge period. In fact, they've even removed the gouge period for many years on everything but this. MSRP is roughly 20-25% above street.

Here's the problem: Millions are into RB as a NON-MUSICAL twitch game. In fact, RB is essentially ANTI-music as it encourages players to be pretend-musicians, completely faking it re anything close to a musical performance.

Suddenly with RB3 they expect this non/anti-music market to instantly convert into actual aspiring musicians and be willing to fork over $300+ for the privilege. Ain't gonna happen beyond a smattering of early adopters/nerds. The numbers just aren't there, the earnestness of a few individuals notwithstanding.

At any rate, will be most interested to read the first reviews by actual musicians attempting to make it work for midi. Could be a train wreck.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:23 pm
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You're in the wrong forum and looking at the wrong product.
This may be made by Fender, but it won't follow their patterns since it's not a straight up guitar. If you don't believe me, see how many music stores carry it.
Odds are you'll see it as a train wreck no matter what happens, since you're looking for it to be something that nobody that has developed, built, or is even marketing it has intended.
What is that?
A pro level midi controller at a bargain basement price.
There's a reason midi controllers in the form of guitars cost what they do. Guitar players expect a guitar to feel and play like a really good guitar that can do midi without missing a step. Anything less and the complaining begins. That's why this isn't advertised primarily as a midi controller. If you're hoping it will be awesome by chance you can probably forget that as well. They've known for months exactly how good the Squire is and how it plays. The fact that no one has started stressing midi as a feature upfront should tell you something.
I'll predict even before release that musicians probably won't like it as a guitar, and will probably find it lacking as a midi controller as well. And since it wasn't built for that audience, I predict that it won't matter at all to Fender or Harmonix.
The people it was made for...
People that can't find a good instructor.
People that aren't interested in guitar enough on it's own to take the time and expense required to learn it.
And the people that love RB and want a new challenge that could lead them into the field for real.
They may just find it to be what it was intended to be and love it.
We'll know next week.


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Post subject: Re: RockBand 3 Squire
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:32 pm
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Please direct me to one product in Fender's history that ever sold for MSRP via a major musical retailer. Oh, you can't. What a shame. Guess you're wrong.

Actually, if you bothered to read my post which you obviously didn't, or bothered to read Fender's own promotional material, which you obviously didn't, you would have realized that Fender is in fact marketing this product in part as a midi controller. Wake up, pay attention here.

You're apparently having some kind of Sybil-like conversation with yourself. You've invented the notion that Fender is selling this semi-plastic toy as a "professional midi controller". Good luck with that. You may want to seek the advice of a "professional" to deal with those voices. Enjoy the fantasy however!

A dirt-cheap guitar with bad action and poorly-milled frets is an awful practice guitar for a budding guitarist. And pretending that playing a twitch game while trying to form a few basic chords is teaching you useful guitar skills is a travesty.

Kids need quality guitars to learn on. And good instructors and quality instructional materials. Becoming a musician is serious business. It takes time, concentration, and it even hurts sometimes. It's not a game, it's a skill.

Now Fender to its credit has expanded the G-DEC series into an excellent instructional program. THAT'S a useful direction for aspiring guitarists to go in.

Play-acting you're Slash in front of your TV? That's pathetic.


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