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Post subject: Re: i'm sorry,but i think the squier guitar is not only a
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:39 pm
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euphoria480 wrote:
it seems like the squier just goes out of tune too much and is almost impossible to tweak a good authentic tone out of it.


Yeah, they're pretty close the the original state of the art... back when the earth was new and Leo Fender was just getting known...

Guitars were made one-off back then and there was NOTHING like the precision machining that goes into the least expensive Fender made these days...

My son's strat quite often goes out of tune in less than a month... and I can pull out my Taylors or Gibson that have been put away for two or three months and just start playing...

Guess you gotta pay ten times as much to get anything worth having these days<G>

OTOH, his Strat Squire stays in great tune for an evening of playing with our band, he can dive bomb the whammy bar, bend strings, and pretty much count on it being on the right note from start to quitting time...

The only critique I have of his Squire is that my MIM Strat HSS has a little thinner neck, and I really prefer it just as he prefers the fatter neck on his guitar... but his Squire's got a great sound whether it's playing through our little Champ 600 or plugged into the Princeton Chorus...

It even hums like any other "authentic" single coil Strat is you set it down <G>


euphoria480 wrote:
I tried giving these guitars the benefit of the doubt,but now i know that there really IS a difference between the quiality of american made vs far east made.


Yepper, you got that right... American Made is pretty well consistent... they're all that they should be right out of the box... or they make it right...

The Squire varies a bit... you might get one that's merely good, or find one that was made on that factory's Best Day Ever...

Sometimes the you get right pieces of wood, pickups that just happen to match up, and a few folks having a terrific day on the assembly line all hitting on the same instrument... and you end up with something special.

We pay more for the consistency that are expected of high end instruments, sometimes a LOT more... and some times we only get a little bit better instrument for the difference.

Some of the best on the cheaper models come out head and shoulders above the rest for one reason or another...

I've noticed, over the last 45 years of playing guitar, doing sound, and enjoying the company of real musical pros from time to time that price is about the last consideration of what makes a GREAT guitar. Nor is the instrument he plays got anything to do with the quality of the players work...

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FSR Fender 60 Anniversary Strat HSS MIM, Gibson ES 335, Taylor 555, Ovation Custom Balladeer-12, Baby Taylor, Fender Princeton Chorus (stereo), Fender Champ 600


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Post subject: Re: i'm sorry,but i think the squier guitar is not only a
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:28 pm
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tchall wrote:
euphoria480 wrote:
it seems like the squier just goes out of tune too much and is almost impossible to tweak a good authentic tone out of it.


Esquire? Squier?

American Made Consistent? Well you may hold on to that pride but plenty have experienced otherwise.

I am from South East Asia I started with Ibanez JEM 77 and RG 570 lo-pro edge trem I guess the Squiers get the kind of criticism that the Ibanez Licensed Trem has. However in reality they work just as great if not better than the Original Floyd Rose. Seeing and feeling is believing I got a Squier recently tested a few of them and a few of the American Standard. Tuning stability wise they are almost the same coz unless there are some manufacturing defects which I have not come across a proper setup would solve tuning stablility issues. In fact overall i tested more than a few Asian Squiers and the American made just to dig out genuine facts. Talking about tuning stability I can't imagine the horror when the supposedly well made American Standard go out of tune on the G and lower E after whammy abuse, a few of them actually. I guess it has much to do with the setup.

You must be lucky to own that Gibson or had it properly setup coz u may watch reviews on youtube by 'rockongoodpeople' and some other reviews that the Gibson Les Paul needs a good setup or initially doesn't stay in tune.

Yeah, they're pretty close the the original state of the art... back when the earth was new and Leo Fender was just getting known...

Guitars were made one-off back then and there was NOTHING like the precision machining that goes into the least expensive Fender made these days...

My son's strat quite often goes out of tune in less than a month... and I can pull out my Taylors or Gibson that have been put away for two or three months and just start playing...


Guess you gotta pay ten times as much to get anything worth having these days<G>

OTOH, his Strat Squire stays in great tune for an evening of playing with our band, he can dive bomb the whammy bar, bend strings, and pretty much count on it being on the right note from start to quitting time...

The only critique I have of his Squire is that my MIM Strat HSS has a little thinner neck, and I really prefer it just as he prefers the fatter neck on his guitar... but his Squire's got a great sound whether it's playing through our little Champ 600 or plugged into the Princeton Chorus...

It even hums like any other "authentic" single coil Strat is you set it down <G>


euphoria480 wrote:
I tried giving these guitars the benefit of the doubt,but now i know that there really IS a difference between the quiality of american made vs far east made.


Yepper, you got that right... American Made is pretty well consistent... they're all that they should be right out of the box... or they make it right...


The Squire varies a bit... you might get one that's merely good, or find one that was made on that factory's Best Day Ever...



Sometimes the you get right pieces of wood, pickups that just happen to match up, and a few folks having a terrific day on the assembly line all hitting on the same instrument... and you end up with something special.

We pay more for the consistency that are expected of high end instruments, sometimes a LOT more... and some times we only get a little bit better instrument for the difference.

Some of the best on the cheaper models come out head and shoulders above the rest for one reason or another...

I've noticed, over the last 45 years of playing guitar, doing sound, and enjoying the company of real musical pros from time to time that price is about the last consideration of what makes a GREAT guitar. Nor is the instrument he plays got anything to do with the quality of the players work...


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Post subject: Re: i'm sorry,but i think the squier guitar is not only a
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:45 am
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Aldeen wrote:
tchall wrote:
euphoria480 wrote:
it seems like the squier just goes out of tune too much and is almost impossible to tweak a good authentic tone out of it.


Esquire? Squier?


I am from South East Asia I started with Ibanez JEM 77 and RG 570 lo-pro edge trem I guess the Squiers get the kind of criticism that the Ibanez Licensed Trem has. However in reality they work just as great if not better than the Original Floyd Rose.

Talking about tuning stability I can't imagine the horror when the supposedly well made American Standard go out of tune on the G and lower E after whammy abuse, a few of them actually. I guess it has much to do with the setup.



I must have been much too subtle, you didn't catch the irony implied in my post...

My $2,000-$3,000 guitars are very nicely set up, but the average player doesn't spend that kind of money unless they are collectors, pros, or just have more money than they need...

I don't fit any of the standard categories, I just happened to be at the right place at the right time and have slowly collected my guitars over the last 40 years...

I was attempting to point out that "American Standard" Stratocasters are not a bit better than the rest UNTIL they get a full set up at the dealers.

THAT'S what the buyer is paying for...

The materials MAY be slightly better, the PUPs newer sexier models, and there are a whole bunch of terrific OPTIONS that can be changed if you go full custom...

When you pay the big ticket price you are entitled to expect a great guitar...

Fender, Gibson, Taylor, Martin... NONE of them want a customer to plunk down big money and have any reason to be disappointed...

That doesn't mean that you will never be dissatisfied with one of their guitars, it just means that MOST of them are going to be very good or better.

Lower end instruments aren't as consistent... you get good guitars most of the time, a lemon some times... but the occasional amazing instrument will show up...

Some combination of wood, electronics, and skill in assembly and you get that one in a thousand that makes a reputation for the rest<G>

The "cheaper" guitars that folks dismiss as inferior all to often... aren't even cheaper.

Retail prices on some of the MIM guitars, and collector values on some of the Asian made models put them at a lot higher value than even the middle tier "American Made" Strats...

My MIM Strat is a nearly perfect fit for me... The neck feels like it was crafted to fit my hand, the action low and easy, the wammy bar is balanced well enough that it keeps good tune for weeks at a time...

The minor things that aren't quite right will eventually irritate me enough that I'll fix them (the Humbucker is a LOT louder than the other pickups, a small resistor in the circuit will fix that easily) but there are no major issues...

Mine, BTW, is a fairly rare Fender Short Run. They made just a few for their 60th Anniversary, Gloss Black, Antique Telecaster chrome knobs, engine turning marks on the one piece black pick guard and back plate. HSS pickups, and some very cool chromes "Fender Stratocaster" labels with a 60th Anniversary button inlet to the back of the head...

It doesn't really feel or sound like any other Strat I've played, the big knobs fit my sausage sized fingers, the top of the line Fender strings it came with showed me how smooth the action could be... The HSS pickups can vary the sound from nearly acoustic to hard edged overdrive...

Brand new... I bought it for less than $400...

Part of what people are missing in their snobbishness about what the label says, or where the instrument was made... is that the DEALER is an essential link in the chain.

No matter how well the guitar was set up at the factory, shipping, storage, and handling take their toll...

A good dealer will check to see if it's OK... a GREAT dealer will make it right even on a moderate priced instrument...

All in all I'm very pleased with the range of offerings that Fender provides, and the "Made In America" snobbishness is kinda silly when the prices don't reflect the supposed superiority of MIA guitars

My son's Squire is a very nice instrument. my MIM is a bit better, but then it's supposed to sell for six or seven times the price...

Bottom line, if Fender puts their name on it it's a Fender... and probably worth picking up to see how it fits the individual player.

There are pros playing Squire branded instruments, and complete hackers with a top of the line Strat gathering dust in a closet...



Aldeen wrote:
You must be lucky to own that Gibson or had it properly setup coz u may watch reviews on youtube by 'rockongoodpeople' and some other reviews that the Gibson Les Paul needs a good setup or initially doesn't stay in tune.


The 335 is a semi hollow body, nothing like a Les Paul.

Mine is a '75 with the trapeze tailpiece... it seems that's one of the rare variations, I've seen one other guitar player that owned one like it, and his was even identical in color<G>

It's spent much of it's life in the case, I played acoustic guitar nearly exclusively for the first 30 years I owned it, but it always seems to be in tune when I pull it back out...

It was a gift from my parents when I was 21-22 or so and I mostly played it for them when I was home visiting<G>

Now that age and arthritis are having their toll I'm appreciating it a lot more.... Playing a Taylor 12-string Jumbo for hours at a time takes more grip strength than I enjoy using these days, so I keep it reserved for a few songs a night (without too many barre chords<G>)

The Gibson takes a fraction of the effort and wears medium weight strings with perfect intonation 30 years from when it was originally set up.

The Strat has an even lighter action and travels without any worries about damaging a collector grade original... so it's the first guitar I pack for a night out...

Bottom line: I agree that label snobs are missing a LOT of great instruments, Fender just doesn't let inferior instruments wear the name...

With the precision machining of the wood and metal, and the quality of modern electronics the ORIGINAL Stratocasters varied a lot more in quality than today's line(s)...

Kids starting out on a Squire Strat are getting a guitar that won't fight them, and will give them a smooth road toward becoming proficient players... (I'd MUCH rather see a kid get an inexpensive Squire they can learn on than a cheap acoustic that makes them work way too hard)

People who put down their choice aren't helping anyone with their "advice" even if it does stroke THEIR egos to make sweeping pronouncements about the "lesser" brands<G>

I imagine that most of them would benefit by practicing more and putting other folks choices down less... <VBG>

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FSR Fender 60 Anniversary Strat HSS MIM, Gibson ES 335, Taylor 555, Ovation Custom Balladeer-12, Baby Taylor, Fender Princeton Chorus (stereo), Fender Champ 600


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Post subject: Re: i'm sorry,but i think the squier guitar is not only a
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:37 am
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Whoah! hold your horses that was all over the place :shock: . Anyway since you are a collector maybe you would know about Guitars inside out. I have some questions. I've only started to use a reasonable Strat recently. I find that handling a typical Strat is a delicate matter unlike what I am used to the double locking system that is user friendly. Managing a typical Strat is interesting though however in my finding prompts user to be a bit more involved with the mechanics of the guitar.

I wish to stress on tuning stability. Basically a good setup would enhance tuning stability. At Fender Support it says bullet ends improves tuning stability. I had the bullets on when I got the guitar it stayed in tune reasonably well even after whammy bar abuse. Initially I thought the bullet end was merely a design that looks cool lol! :lol: Well you rarely have tuning stability issues with locking trem and nut. That was the 1st time I saw the bullet end, a bit of a shock on the bizarre outlook :lol:

I broke the G string so I changed to a set of common ball ends, the tuning didn't work as well after whammy use, so i swapped back to bullet ends hence it did a good job. Not long after I broke the D string only had it on for less than a week so I fixed a ball end spare.

Now the bullet end dilemma. This didn't work well, but surprisingly the ball end D string didn't show much trouble as the bullet end B that used to work well with its bullet friends. So after about 2 weeks I string a whole set of bullet ends again and that worked well. A day after I broke the D string again probably due to a lick I was practicing that was very hard on the D. This time I've gotten a dozen set of spare bullets but since I had it on only the day before I just fixed the D. Now this time even with all bullet ends in but with a slightly late comer it didn't stay in tune that well. Any comments?

Peace


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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:28 am
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the only kinda bad thing i've noticed about bullet strat, is that whenever i use the whammy bar it goes out of tune...no problem to me as i dont use it that often, but does anyone else with bullet models find this problem??

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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:39 am
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radio_friendly_unit_shifter wrote:
the only kinda bad thing i've noticed about bullet strat, is that whenever i use the whammy bar it goes out of tune...no problem to me as i dont use it that often, but does anyone else with bullet models find this problem??


I beg your pardon if my quote is uninvited hehehe!

I don't think its about any particular model coz I've tried many types of Strats some good some bad in no particular brand order. It's either manufacturing defect on guitar parts or a bad setup. In most cases bad setup.

After a good intonation and neck setup try:

1. Bill Baker Stringing Method
2. Carl Verheyen Trem Setting Method where the Trem Claw/Spring angled.
3. Bullet End Strings
4. String from the higher E to the Lower E. Supposedly the lower strings needing more tension, this should be the order of tuning as well. Tune Up not Down for normal tuners.
5. Bend whole step on all harmonics position across the string. I don't like the idea of tugging the strings, like to show some respect lol!:lol:
6. Whammy pushdowns free harmonics thrice say the 5th, pullups 7th back to pushdowns 12th fret.
7. Divebomb free harmonics 5th,7th and 12th just wanting 3 sets actually.
8. Repeat step 6.

Repeat thrice on new strings step 5-8.

9.The final tuning with supposedly spring tension=string tension principal like above, bend whole step high E string 5th fret and whammy pushdowns 6 times, followed by B String 5th Fret, G & D string 7th fret, A and lower E 12th fret. Notice that ur trem dives more as u bend closer to the body.

Repeat 9 until u get a reasonably uniformed tuning. I'd approximately say with no locking mechanism 90% accuracy and stability 95-97% for double locking trem and nut. This works for me and pls don't curse me if it doesn't work for u coz it cd be due to unaccounted technical reasons. I am not bothered that I have about 5% deficiency on non-locking system coz even at 100% accuracy the amplitude of string vibrations are not as regular as electronic keys esp. when ur doing chords. So if you have normal hearing pitch it would be acceptable to your ears. The best part is after notorious bending or whammy use the detune wouldn't be too obvious so much that ud have ample time to do push down for it to go back better in tune.

Regarding spring tension I said supposedly coz I learn by instruction and moderate logical understanding but do not have any detail Physics calculation :lol: Good Luck! oops I forgot about lubricating the nut, saddle, trem plate, string tree etc. You figure where best to fit this step lol! Anyway excuse me if I am stating the obvious to u I am just throwing everything I know and recording for my own reference hahaha!

Peace :lol:


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:01 pm
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Aldeen wrote:
radio_friendly_unit_shifter wrote:
the only kinda bad thing i've noticed about bullet strat, is that whenever i use the whammy bar it goes out of tune...no problem to me as i dont use it that often, but does anyone else with bullet models find this problem??


I beg your pardon if my quote is uninvited hehehe!

I don't think its about any particular model coz I've tried many types of Strats some good some bad in no particular brand order. It's either manufacturing defect on guitar parts or a bad setup. In most cases bad setup.

After a good intonation and neck setup try:

1. Bill Baker Stringing Method
2. Carl Verheyen Trem Setting Method where the Trem Claw/Spring angled.
3. Bullet End Strings
4. String from the higher E to the Lower E. Supposedly the lower strings needing more tension, this should be the order of tuning as well. Tune Up not Down for normal tuners.
5. Bend whole step on all harmonics position across the string. I don't like the idea of tugging the strings, like to show some respect lol!:lol:
6. Whammy pushdowns free harmonics thrice say the 5th, pullups 7th back to pushdowns 12th fret.
7. Divebomb free harmonics 5th,7th and 12th just wanting 3 sets actually.
8. Repeat step 6.

Repeat thrice on new strings step 5-8.

9.The final tuning with supposedly spring tension=string tension principal like above, bend whole step high E string 5th fret and whammy pushdowns 6 times, followed by B String 5th Fret, G & D string 7th fret, A and lower E 12th fret. Notice that ur trem dives more as u bend closer to the body.

Repeat 9 until u get a reasonably uniformed tuning. I'd approximately say with no locking mechanism 90% accuracy and stability 95-97% for double locking trem and nut. This works for me and pls don't curse me if it doesn't work for u coz it cd be due to unaccounted technical reasons. I am not bothered that I have about 5% deficiency on non-locking system coz even at 100% accuracy the amplitude of string vibrations are not as regular as electronic keys esp. when ur doing chords. So if you have normal hearing pitch it would be acceptable to your ears. The best part is after notorious bending or whammy use the detune wouldn't be too obvious so much that ud have ample time to do push down for it to go back better in tune.

Regarding spring tension I said supposedly coz I learn by instruction and moderate logical understanding but do not have any detail Physics calculation :lol: Good Luck! oops I forgot about lubricating the nut, saddle, trem plate, string tree etc. You figure where best to fit this step lol! Anyway excuse me if I am stating the obvious to u I am just throwing everything I know and recording for my own reference hahaha!

Peace :lol:

no your not stating the obvious, i dont know a thing or two on "how to look after your guitar" etc. this info's great, thank you :)

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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:13 am
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Thanks everyone for the great info. Nice that this post turned positive instead negative. Sometimes people post opinions just to get the ball rolling. lol Well it back fired. HAHAHAHA SO FAR....LOL


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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:03 am
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Oh I forgot another thing. Do not use very fluid lubricant if you are clumsy like me hehe! I made a mistake using sewing machine oil. Try to use something semi-fluid. I was lubricating the exit point of the my string route that bends at an angle before reaching the saddle, I overdosed so the fluid flowed down into my spring hold.

Gosh! big mistake something we ought to know about lubricating friction points there are places that should be left alone coz we don't want them to slip and don't ever lube your string post, these are places where you want the strings to have a firm grip.

So in my unfortunate case when I whammy sometimes I hear a click coz the spring claws slipping so my tuning wasn't as good as before. Well :) I hope it will dry out soon I hate opening the spring cavity, I try my best to keep my screws nice and virgin lol! :P


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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:02 pm
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of course made in america guitars are going to be better than made in china squiers. but depending on the squier you get they can be almost as good or even better than some of the mexican made fenders. i have played alot of mexican standard strats and teles and a few of the new blacktop guitars and i think my squier jagmaster has better quality than 75% of the mexican fenders i've played

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Post subject: Squier Guitars
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:27 am
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I've got to add my two cents to this discussion. I believe the Squier Guitars are a good value for the buck. I may have stated it before in another thread but I believe the Squier requires a bit more set up by the owner than some higher budget guitars but when set up properly plays and sounds as good as the more expensive models. When I hear complaints about any guitar that won't stay in tune I wonder about the way the strings were installed, the age of the strings, etc.. My experience has been that when you no longer have to tune the guitar each time you play the strings are probably dead and need to be replaced anyway. I only own one Squier Tele and when I traded for it it was a dog to play. After cutting the nut slots to the proper depth, removing the sway from the neck, shortening the saddle screws, setting the string height and intonation, shielding the pickguard and body cavity's, securing the input jack, and in general setting it up like any guitar should be, it sounds great. The action is super, it is absoutely quiet when not playing, and a very nice guitar to play. :roll:

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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:47 am
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I own a CV Strat DUDE great right out the store I also own a MIM tele. I love both guitars because they are mine. In all actuality my MIM needs more attention doesnt stay in tune as well as my CV and pickup out put is questionable I prefer my CV. All that said LOVE your guitars bros they are yours OH and be nice to others regardless of brand names. Oh Did I mention I have a MIA?


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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:11 am
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well Squier's are pretty decent instruments well, of course there are some poorly made which you can't avoid.. even fenders does have some flaws.. but still they're good and is perfect especially when you're out gigging or on a tight budget or just when you need a practice guitar..

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