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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:16 pm
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JerseyJettFan wrote:
Let's put it this way, I'm close to twice your age,


You do realize that would make you about 80 right?

Eh, I'll take that as a compliment..

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Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:17 pm
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Custom Shop should start "laminated" versions of their Signature series ;)

I had a Samick (a fender copy), I never had problems with it, was built like a tank and u can beat the sh**t out of it.

Nothing wrong until you want to make a translucide finish.
I can't tell for the tone of this body since it had horrible pickups/electronics
.... not mentioning the hardware part.

I got few questions, if "laminated" doesn't bother tone or whatever I can imagine, why Fender doesn't build ALL of their guitar line-up that way then ? I don't want to go into a "word fight" here, I just want to understand.
There must a reason why Squier or Affinity are made of laminated.

According to "laminated" versus "plain wood" attributes are the same, I could then take a Custom Shop , swap/fit the body with a laminated one and no one could hear or see the difference, right ?

Sorry but I simply don't understand this.
The main reason I love "regular" bodies is that you can finish them translucide (if it's 3 parts or less).

I happen to have an issue with this though, I sand down to bare wood a MIM body last year and discovered that the body was made out of 5 or more pieces glued together. It was a nightmare to see this.
So, yes ... even solid body sometimes hides "surprises.

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Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:44 pm
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Let's at least let it be known, that the numbers of plywood bodied Squiers in existence are small.

Maybe your questions would be something to ask Mike Eldred as to why Fender doesn't make any out of ply. There's a whole forum for you to ask him questions if you scroll the front forum listings.

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Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:25 am
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I still have a Squier II Stratocaster that I bought new back during the two year period they were made.

It does have the laminated wood body - but it's not "plywood" by any stretch of the imagination. :roll:

The guitar plays and sounds great. This being the case - why does anyone care how many pieces the body is made up of, or if it is laminated construction or not?

To state the obvious, a guitar is a musical instrument - made to make music with. And this guitar does a great job of doing what a musical instrument is supposed to do - make music.

It is the lightest weight of all my Strats. It plays fantastic. When playing, the resonance of the guitar can be felt against my body. All in all a very, very good guitar.

Take it from someone that plays guitar, a musician, if you will - Squier guitars may be cheap to buy - as in very low cost. But they are in no way a "cheap" guitar. They do their job nicely. And they hold up for years. i.e. my Squier II.

Some say - yeah but what about the "crap" this, and the "crap" that? People like to bash tuners, for example, for some odd reason. Mine has the same tuners that came on it - and they still work just fine. After - how many years?

So my advice would be to quit listening to all the idiots that are trashing this or that about your guitar - or trashing Sguier II's, or trashing Squiers in general, and just enjoy your guitar. They are probably just jealous and trying to get you to sell your guitar to them very cheap.

Play your guitar - and go make some music!


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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:02 am
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some years ago i bought a mim standard stratocaster (sold it few years ago now regret it) and around that christmastime my nephew got a squier stratocaster and small fender amp. he had me come over and tune it up and give it a go-over (he was a beginner then) and to my surprise, the guitar played and sounded very good id go as far to say better than my mim strat. the action was excellent out of the box, the intonation was dead on, but i found it sustained longer and had better sound than my strat. so to make sure, i plugged mine into his amp to compare and vica versa. i even told him i like his guitar better than mine lol. as long as he kept the trem bar off of it it stayed in tune no matter how much i was bending the strings. he was about 12 then....now hes 18 and i found out he still has the guitar he says its missing one of the bridge saddles and theres crack by neck on body cos it fell or he dropped it or something. cant remember but, im trying to con it out of him but for some reason hes not crazy about getting rid of it. i played lot of squiers and never seemed to find any real problems with them that a good setup couldnt fix. (jmo)

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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:17 am
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Thanks for all of the replies, I'm heading off to Home Depot for a sheet of Baltic birch A-A, I'm gonna build me a thinline Tele!


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Post subject: Re: Korean plywood Squire II strat.
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:25 am
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oneal lane wrote:
I was at a local pawn shop and the manager is a guitar nut, like me, he called my attention to a battered Korean Squire II. The guitar had a plywood body and somewhat different electronics set up than a standard strat or current squire strat. The guitar was junk, however his purpose was to point out the beautiful maple neck, as pretty as any american standard of the shelf. I gave him the $70.00, but probaply should have worked him down a bit. It had the standard junk squire tuners, currently found on the Bullet series. I plan to install some Fender (Japanese made) vintage tuners and get a nice body for it.

It was the mis-match of the century. A plywood body and this wonderful maple neck.


I know this thread is over a month old now but I'm gonna toss my $.02 worth in here anyways. I haven't read through all of the other posts in detail, so please forgive me if I add anything terribly redundant here. Also these are, as always, just my own personal opinions and should only be taken as such. That said, I would like to address a few of the comment in this thread for the benefit of others who may read this who have less experience with such matters so they don't end up getting the wrong impression on some of this stuff...


morecowbell wrote:
Also, according to Fender customer service, Fender has never marketed any guitar with a plywood body. If you are looking in the body pockets for the pots and pickups, you will see what looks like layers. The routers can't cut deep enough in one pass, so they have to make a series of passes.


First and foremost, I would have to take this statement as being a half truth. No..."Fender" has probably never marketed a guitar with a laminate/plywood body but Squier most -certainly- has. I'm sorry my friend but I have cut a few bodies in my life and I've certainly done enough wood working with a router to -KNOW- the difference between router marks and plywood. Even if that weren't the case, that would simply NOT explain why nicer Fender bodies tend to have "clean" routing in the body cavities while lower end Squiers do not. Even poor tooling and equipment would not explain this (trust me here...I've used PLENTY of dull router bits in my day...again I -do- very much know the difference).

Very seriously...if you doubt that at all get yourself a router (you can often find a decent used one at a flee market for under $40) and a two pieces of scrap wood...one laminate and one hardwood such as alder, ash or even poplar or basswood. Cut in to both using the router, making multiple passes as you say and then LOOK at the two pieces of wood...even painted it's very easy to spot the difference. Again, no, Fender has probably never used a laminate on any Fender branded guitars but Squier most certainly has without a doubt.

JerseyJettFan wrote:
NOT "plywood", IT's made of "LAMINATED HARDWOOD" ! ! ! !

I have a '90 Squier II Stratocaster HSS made of LAMINATED HARDWOOD (approx 13 layers) , it has "sustain for days" and "superb vintage Fender tone". This model performs just as well though I think better than the Indonesian made Deluxe Strat I just sold or the made in Mexico and China Squiers.

The LAMINATED HARDWOOD bodies are derided UNFAIRLY !!

They are often overlooked, highly under-rated and superior in construction to other Squier guitars. If you find one cheap, GRAB IT !!! You won't regret it for a moment.


This too is a bit of a mis-leading statement. First and foremost, plywood -is- most certainly "laminated wood". Both simply mean that multiple layers of wood were glued together to create a thicker piece of wood (although certainly in regards to guitars there are many variations on this...at least with nicer instruments). I think the confusion that some folks get over this issue is in regards to the quality of the woods used to create the laminate/ply.

Let's look at some nicer, high end basses for example. Even if you don't actually play bass, I'm sure that most folks who have ever been in to some place like guitar center has seen a bass (or perhaps even a guitar) that has a stained natural finish where you can clearly see that different colors of wood were used to create the body (or in some cases even the neck). In fact if you've never seen something like this, order yourself a Carvin catalog as Carvin tends to do this a lot with some of their pricier bass's. For example, Carvin has a bass in their current line up that has a Walnut body with a figured Claro Walnut top and an Alder "core" (the LB80W priced at $1449 direct). In cases such as this you will commonly see some of the more exotic (and more expensive) woods such as Walnut, Bubinga, Zebra wood, etc., used in combination with other more traditional woods. While I'm sure this does indeed affect the sound/tone of a given instrument (particularly in regards to Bubinga), it's mostly done for aesthetic appeal more than anything else. More commonly, take a look at a great many of the Les Pauls out there...mahogany body with maple or flame maple "caps"...this two certainly qualifies as a "laminate".

Now to be perfectly blunt here, this is NOT the same as even a "hardwood laminate" used in a lower end Squier guitar. No...we're not talking about "construction grade" plywood as your comments seem to suggest in regards to differentiating plywood from laminates. That said however, the "laminates" typically used in lower cost instruments are NOT truly high quality, instrument grade pieces of wood either. The ply/lams used in Squiers -are- typically better than construction grade but they're typically still a much lower quality piece of "wood". Most of the wood used to create those laminates aren't really high quality to begin with...otherwise these types of laminate bodies would be CONSIDERABLY more expensive and as such they wouldn't be able to sell something like a Squier Bullet for around the $100 price point (even if it's made in China or elsewhere). Further, these pieces of ply/lam don't usually have any where near the same attention to detail in regards to aligning the grains, adhesives/bonding processes, etc., etc.. From time to time you may get one that's really not too bad at all but they are, more often than not, not nearly as resonant as even a "good" laminate let alone solid pieces of wood and...well...to be perfectly frank they don't usually sound nearly as good because of it.

Here's an interesting little experiment... Get yourself a few pieces of hardwood and a couple of pieces of various quality laminate/ply and do the "knock test". Rap on the pieces of wood with your knuckles and listen to the wood. Even an inexperience person can usually hear tonal differences between something such as Alder, Mahogany, Maple and Ash. Then rap on the ply/laminate...most of the time the wood just sounds completely "dead". I can't really go in to all the considerations as far as the tonal characteristics of wood here (that's a book in itself) but very simply, you can't create the same type of "sound" by using multiple pieces...often as many as 8 or 10 or more thin layers, of inexpensive woods...you end up hearing more "glue" than wood.

Now with all of that said, I will add that not all laminates are in fact created equal. I have a mid-80's New Jersey Kramer for example that has the proverbial plywood body and she's held up very very well over the years and does in fact sound pretty decent. There's no signs of cracking near the neck joint, no problems with the finish, etc.. Again however, more often than not as an inexpensive laminate body ages, it will usually develop some problems of this nature...cracking at the neck joint being perhaps the most prominent. I've seen -MANY- inexpensive bodies with this problem (particularly Cort's for some reason) where the cracking from the laminate separating was soooooo bad that the guitar just wasn't even playable because the neck was no longer stable in the neck pocket. I have also seen...although not nearly as frequently...inexpensive laminated guitar bodies that quiet honestly couldn't even be considered as "construction grade" plywood...a very old department store brand called "Rhythmline" certainly comes to mind.

I'm not saying that -all- inexpensive laminated bodies are "bad"...there are in fact some very good ones out there, but these are usually the exception and not the rule. As such, I would -NEVER- go out of my way to buy a body made from a laminate. -If- the body had some usable parts...such as in the OP's case where the neck was really nice (and $70 is a fair price on that BTW...you could pay nearly that much for a decent neck on Ebay), then yes...I might buy the whole guitar for the parts but I would most likely either discard the body or simply use it as scrap or a practice piece or something (if you're trying to learn refinishing for example, cheap lam/ply bodies are wonderful to make all your learning mistakes on!).

I have a Korean made Squier body downstairs...I had gotten the guitar in trade for a couple of pedals I was no longer using. This one actually had Sperzel tuners installed (alone worth the price of the pedals I traded) and the neck was pretty decent. I used the neck on another body (which I recently traded for an Ovation) but I can tell you for a fact that body -IS- a cheap laminate...a really cheap one. Maybe I'll use it some day to build a guitar to smash on stage during a Who tribute but I can't really see using it for -anything- else.

Ultimately if someone has an inexpensive Squier (or other brand) with a laminate body and he/she/it/them enjoys playing it, that's all that really matters...if it makes you happy, that's really the only important thing, but personally unless the price was right for the other parts on it, it's not something that I would ever go out of my way for.

Again just my own personal opinions...I hope that someone finds them useful.

Peace,
Jim


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Post subject: I own one
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:55 pm
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I have owned a Korean Squier II Strat I bought for $100 approx. 16 years ago. It's an S9(Sammick?) with a maple/maple neck that plays & feels really nice. In fact, the Deluxe Players Strat necks have the same radius(12") and profile! I didn't know there was anything special about them until I picked up other Squiers(& several Fenders) and realized the necks weren't as nice as mine.
To all of you out there dogging them, have you actually picked one up and played it? The first time a good friend of mine who is a die-hard Strat player picked mine up and played it, he tried to buy it from me on the spot. As for the "plywood" body, what does it matter as long as it sounds ok? The tuners on mine had been replaced with Sperzels, which I swapped out for a set of Schallers I had. The bridge is all brass but was missing the trem arm(I lock 'em down anyway). For anybody starting out and wanting a nice playing guitar on the cheap, if you ever come across one BUY IT!!!


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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:59 pm
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The way I see it is that there are Squiers and then there are Squiers - you can't just lump them together. Some are cheap with plywood bodies and magnetic strips for pickups. Then there are others that are just about as good as a MIM after a few tweaks.

While I agree that it MAY be possible to make a plywood(or call it laminate if you insist) body that is superior to solid wood, wouldn't such a body be used on the higher end Fenders and not the lower end Squiers? Considering the price differences between regular and marine grade plywood, the cost for a body made out of something alot better than marine grade seems too expensive for a lowend guitar.

Anyone out there have any Custom Shop Plywood?

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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:23 am
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stagemasterplayer wrote:
The way I see it is that there are Squiers and then there are Squiers - you can't just lump them together. Some are cheap with plywood bodies and magnetic strips for pickups. Then there are others that are just about as good as a MIM after a few tweaks.

While I agree that it MAY be possible to make a plywood(or call it laminate if you insist) body that is superior to solid wood, wouldn't such a body be used on the higher end Fenders and not the lower end Squiers? Considering the price differences between regular and marine grade plywood, the cost for a body made out of something alot better than marine grade seems too expensive for a lowend guitar.

Anyone out there have any Custom Shop Plywood?


Now this I do absolutely agree with! It's almost kind of funny really...most people will usually try to differentiate between "Fender" Strats..."I have an MIM (or MIA or Deluxe, etc)" and so on but when something has the Squier name on the headstock, people tend to just lump them all together...and that's really not fair. Squier has indeed put out some very fine instruments over the years. While my MIJ is certainly proof of that, I honestly can't complain about my '08 Crafted in China "Standard Special"...for the $200 I payed, that is simply a gorgeous guitar.

Now I would like to say that I did NOT mean to come off sounding as though I was crackin' on Squiers. Personally I have no problems with Squiers...even the new Bullets are far superior instruments to what was available 20 years ago. I currently have 2 Squiers (one MIJ and one CIC) and one Partscaster with a number of Squier parts on it (including the neck which is off an '04 Indo Standard). For the money Squiers are very difficult to beat. My main guitar is still my '96 MIM but part of that is simply that I've had her the longest and that's the guitar that I've done the most work to to get her the way I want her.

Either way, I do stand by my earlier comments in regards to differentiating between "laminates" from "plywood".

Peace,
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Korean plywood Squire II strat.
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:57 am
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I own a Korean made Squire II HSS. I have upgraded tuners to help keep tune from original tuners. I have removed original hummer and added an active EMG sustain. Replaced top single for and original 70's fender pickup. Made and installed my own Titanium strap locks. replaced the two back covers with 304SS I laser cut and polished to a mirror finish. Replaced back plate with slightly thicker laser cut 304SS. I completly removed all paint down to a layer of urethane over the wood. Yes it is laminated but it's laminated maple and rosewood every other layer. Maple on outside. I own high end Les Paul, 2 american strats, one mexican, a limited epiphone, SG. But there is no comparison, EVER to the high quality sustained sound I get from my MIK. To me it's worth thousand's more than any of my other guitars. None of my other guitars you can play a note put the guitar down come back to it 5 minutes later and it's still playing the note. It is of all guitars the best playing and sounding guitar I have ever owned or played.... Just my opinion...


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Post subject: Re: IT"S LAMINATED HARDWOOD !!!!!!!!
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:55 am
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JerseyJettFan wrote:
NOT "plywood", IT's made of "LAMINATED HARDWOOD" ! ! ! !


You are arguing semantics. You prefer your term. Most guitarists just call it "plywood". It's not a registered trademark or brand name so either term is correct. You are acting hysterical with your shrill melodrama and yelling certain words. It isn't that big of a deal.

As far as plywood goes, I have a plywood Harmony Strat copy and it's fine. I also have a solid basswood Fujigen Gakki Squier. So you can't call me a cork sniffer. But I don't delude myself into believing that plywood guitars sound better than solid body guitars. Some of them sound very good while some of them sound lifeless, just like any other guitar. But very few of them sound as good as a good solid wood guitar. Another disadvantage of plywood guitars, the stripped out strap button, was mentioned earlier. This might not seem to be a big deal but if you're gigging and your strap button fails, it could end in disaster. There is nothing wrong with plywood guitars, but they usually don't sound as good as a good solid wood guitar.

Technically, my Epiphone 335 is made of maple plywood and is a wonderful guitar. Even the most expensive Gibson 335s have maple/poplar/maple plywood bodies. It's not necessarily a bad thing.


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Post subject: Re: Korean plywood Squire II strat.
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:23 pm
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Nice thread resurrection.
Last post was over 7 years ago.
Pretty sure the person freaking out about laminate/plywood has moved on with their life.

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Post subject: Re: Korean plywood Squire II strat.
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:20 pm
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So what if it was 7 years ago? Doesn't change the quality of n formation in this thread.

As a new player myself, I understand. I was turned off to certain guitars by snobs. There's still snobs today. People still hate on laminated bodies just as they did 7 years ago. Hell, I passed on some because everybody called them 'plywood'.

Personally, I think it should be stickied. The last thing people should be doing is pushing new guitar players away before they ever even buy a guitar. And that's exactly what snobbery does.


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