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Post subject: Japanese Squier Strat History?
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:53 am
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I've tried tracking the history of my guitar, serial number etc. but none of it seems to add up - so take a look at the pictures and tell me what you think.

The scratchplate is single layer and although you can't reallt tell by the pics, the knobs and pick-ups are yellowish/aged, which I read somewhere that they are actually supplied this way on some models

[img][img]http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu15/theYellowPeril/SFrontbodyStratSmall.jpg[/img]ImageImageImage[/img]


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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:56 am
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More pics[img][img]http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu15/theYellowPeril/SReverseheadstockStratSmall.jpg[/img]

[/img]Image

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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:21 am
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Well, I think I like it! And that Fender Japan makes superb instruments...Other than that I can't tell you much.

Here is the link to Fender Japan, maybe you can find out something:
www.fenderjapan.co.jp

And another one:
http://www.mijfenders.com/

PS I think you can read something about Japanese instruments here on Fender site, in support - product dating - Japanese instruments.
And check out www.stratcollector.com

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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:54 pm
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Doesn't look like any MIJ I have ever seen, looks more like a 90s MIM, but I can see Mad in Japan on the headstock and the T prefix... so I am confused. Its definitely not an 80s MIJ I can tell you that though


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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:02 am
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Now you can see why I'm confused, but it plays really well and has that real strat tone. I know it doesn't really matter about the history, but I'm intrigued. Maybe the next time I put a new set of strings on, I'll remove the neck and see if there's a pencil written serial number.


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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:05 am
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If you want to see a 1987 MIJ Squire E series Stratocaster, take a look at mine. it is all stock except for the entire tremelo bridge assembly. The original was rusted too badly to use, so was replaced by a GFS vintage bent steel saddle model. Image
Image
During the 1980s Fender was making some very nice guitars under the Squire name. this is one of them. It truly rivals the MIJ Fender guitars of that time.
Does anybody know if this model was a re-issue of a particular vintage Fender Strat year?? It has quite a few vintage touches(8 hole single ply pickguard, butt end truss rod adjuster, fiesta red color, vintage size fretsw/ maple neck) It looks like it could be a vintage re-issue except for the modern style string trees and die-cast "Fender" tuners.


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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:58 am
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I'm gonna toss my $.02 worth in here...I'm no expert on these so please take my comments as being only my own personal opinion and use them for what you feel they are worth.

According to the info here on Fender.com, the T series serial number indicates that it is probably a '94 - '95 and to my eyes, the instrument does look consistent with that era. According to Wikipedia (all hail the Almighty Wiki! LOL!), the Squier MIJ's were made at the FujiGen plant until '97 and the serial numbers follow the Fender MIJ dating.

Before I go any further here, I have to say that the mid 80's MIJ Squiers seem to be completely different animals from later MIJ's. The "E series" MIJ's (such as Paisley's and mine) really seem to of MUCH higher quality than later MIJ's. That's not to say that the later MIJ's are bad, but the mid 80's E series instruments were really top notch instruments and from what I have been able to tell from my own research, were damned near identical to the Fender labeled MIJ instruments of that era (and I'll come back to this line of thought in just a moment).

Now I recently had a '92 Squier...same era...that was Made in Korea that had some very similar characteristics...the low end "covered" tuners, the generic bridge saddles, etc.. It also had a very similar headstock logo but mine had the "Squier" in large letters and the "Fender" in the smaller letters. Here's a pic...


Image

Now please ignore the tuners here...someone put Sperzels on it (which I took off and kept before I sold the guitar this neck ended up on). The screw pattern on the back of the headstock clearly indicated that this thing originally had those cheap chrome covered tuners on it. While the logo isn't exact, it is similar to yours...plain black as apposed to the black outlined gold of the E series instruments.

For the sake of comparison, here's a pic of my '85 E series Squier's headstock...

Image

As with Paisley's, you can see this came with higher quality tuning keys, it has the black outlined, gold logo, etc.. Also on the back of my tuning keys, they are stamped "Fender Japan" (although I've seen a number that are also stamped "Gotoh" as well). I know you can't really tell from the pics here but the '85 MIJ neck also has a much nicer, dare I say "higher quality" finish than the '92 MIK had and over-all the neck has a MUCH better fit and finish. Not that the MIK had a "bad" neck but the '85 MIJ is much, MUCH nicer...really a very high quality neck.


Now here's a pic of the body on the MIK so you can compare it to yours (and yea...I know she was a bit rough)...

Image

(Sorry the highlights are blown out here...I had used the on camera flash. I was just trying to get some snapshots of her the night I brought her home).

Again you can see the lower end bridge on this one that is similar to yours. While I obviously can't tell from your pictures, I'd be willing to bet your MIJ only had the half sized zinc trem block (yes/no?) as apposed to the full size blocks found on the earlier MIJ's. Further, the body on my '92 MIK was actually plywood where as the earlier MIJ's used basswood (although I understand some alder bodies are out there). I am very curious as to whether your MIJ there is a solid wood or ply? I could very certainly be wrong, but I would bet a shiny penny it's ply...

I don't have any decent pics of the body on my '85 MIJ for comparison but please know that it's very similar to the pics that Paisley posted of his...it has the steel "unstamped" saddles, etc. (although mine is black). While the neck from the MIK was sold on a different body, I still have the MIK body and when you compare the workmanship to my '85 MIJ...well...there's simply no comparison. That MIK body is -really- cheap where as the '85 MIJ, despite being basswood (which really isn't a problem for me) shows some very nice craftsmanship to say the least. Whether this is simply due to the wood used or how the respective instruments were taken care of, I can't really say specifically but the '92 MIK was clearly an inexpensive entry level guitar where as my '85 MIJ is a very serious instrument.

Now I do have to add here that FujiGen does have a well earned reputation for making very good instruments. While the name isn't as familiar to most folks as Fender is (or even Squier), as I recall FujiGen Gakki has been around making electric guitars since 1962 (they started in 1960 making violins and acoustic guitars) so these folks do in fact know what they are doing. Again my '85 E series is an incredible guitar and I recently acquired a Fender MIJ Contemporary body of that same era and I have to say the quality and workmanship is certainly first rate on both. In the mid-80's at least, FujiGen put out some really nice stuff under the Fender and Squier names.

So with that I'm going to get -VERY- subjective here...please take these comments with a grain of salt as I have -nothing- to verify them or back them up. -If- I had to make an semi-educated guess, I think that what might have happened is that during the mid-80's when Fender had both the Fender and Squier lines made at the FugiGen plant in Japan, the folks at FujiGen made those E series Squiers too good...again they're nearly, if not completely identical to the Fender labeled instruments from that era. What -may- have happened is that Fender had FujiGen make "cheaper" Squiers so as to create a more substantial difference between the instruments and their respective lines. It could also be that Fender had FujiGen do this just so they could sell the Squiers at a much lower price point as well...if not a combination of the two. Either way, something changed with the MIJ Squiers and the later models simply were not of the same outstanding quality as those mid 80's Squiers were.

Regardless, unless someone can prove otherwise I would have to say that what you probably have there is basically an "entry level" Squier from around '94 (much like the CIC Bullets are today). Now please...I'm not saying that this is a "bad" guitar. I'm just saying that I seriously doubt it's of the same quality as the earlier MIJ 80's Squiers (or even some of the current, higher end CIC Squiers). I just think this was likely a mid 90's instrument that probably retailed for around $100 - $150 new and is probably comparable to brands such as Cort, Lotus, Johnson and even the low end Yamaha's, etc.. What I would suggest is to pull the neck and look for any additional markings. Look at the heal of the neck and in the neck pocket of the body for any stamps or dates to give you any indication if this is something other than what I have suggested here (and again I would also be very curious to know whether the body is a solid wood or ply). Also, if as you say this guitar "has that real Strat tone", assuming that you have compared this instrument side by side with other "real" Strats, I would also suggest pulling the pickguard...I won't say the MIJ pickups from this era are bad, but please remember that it's still "a Strat"...it's quite possible that someone swapped out the pickups somewhere along the way. You should be able to tell if the pickups have been changed...and new pickups will make a world of difference in even the cheapest instrument.

Lastly, to me the bottom line is simply this; if you enjoy the guitar, just play the crap out of it! That's really the important thing...whether or not this guitar makes you feel good. The rest is simply academic :-)

Peace,
Jim


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:15 pm
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paisley strat wrote:
Does anybody know if this model was a re-issue of a particular vintage Fender Strat year?? It has quite a few vintage touches(8 hole single ply pickguard, butt end truss rod adjuster, fiesta red color, vintage size fretsw/ maple neck) It looks like it could be a vintage re-issue except for the modern style string trees and die-cast "Fender" tuners.


If you check my other thread on this, as far as I know they didn't always match reissue necks with reissue bodies. My '85 for example has a '62 reissue neck but the body has the 8 hole pickguard which (theoretically) would indicate some sort of 50's reissue body. Unfortunately in my case with the body being "black" the color isn't really any indication.

Now as far as your neck goes specifically, I don't think it's a '62 reissue as that's what mine is and if you look at the pic I just posted, you'll see the truss rod end is a bit different from mine. Clearly mine has the more modern tuners as well although mine has....err...rather had the vintage string T's (I recently put roller T's on it like yours). That said, it could be a '57 reissues maybe...is it big, thick and chunky? I'd suggest pulling the neck and looking at the heal. Mine is stamped "ST-362" which (supposedly) means mine is a '62 reissue...if yours is stamped "ST-357", that should/would indicate it's the '57 reissue. Along with the 8 hole pickguard, this could indicate that the guitar as a whole is a '57 reissue...but not necessarily. If the stamp is something else...who knows? I don't know for sure but I would venture to guess that they must have made necks other than '57 and '62 reissues for those things back then, but I really don't know for sure.....in fact now that I think about it, every one I think I've ever seen has been marked as a reissue. Hmmmmm....

Yea...pull the neck, I'd love to know how it's stamped...there may be a body stamp in the neck pocket to give you some indication as well (although I wouldn't hold my breath on that).

Jim


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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:34 pm
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The neck on my 87 MIJ Squire is anything BUT big, thick and chunky. It is the thinnest(nut width and front to back) of any of my Strats. It has a very slender neck. And the body is no light weight either. It is pretty heavy compared to some other Strats. I will say this tho, that 1987 E series Squire has a very sweet tone. Some mild overdrive on the amp, the neck pickup on and it really shines for some electric blues!!
These MIJ Fender guitars are interesting to research cuz there is some digging to do to find out what is up with them.
My 1985-86 Contemporary MIJ Stratocaster is another mystery guitar that I am trying to find some info on. I am lucky enough to own 3 1980s MIJ Fender guitars, and consider them some of my most prized, right up there with my MIA models. My tastes run to the slightly........different side of normal.


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Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:37 am
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As I've said previously, when I bought this guitar I'd used it to try an amp and after playing it, I just had to have it - I've never done that before.

At the time I knew nothing about squiers apart from (I thought) they were a very cheap Fender alternative, as Epiphone > Gibson eg. I bought it because it felt 'right' the neck was beautiful and I could get the 'burning the midnight lamp' and 'Riviera Paradise' tones exactly. So the background of the guitar didn't matter to me - it's only recently that it's intruiged me.

I shall remove bits and pieces to investigate, but I can tell you that the height of the pole pieces are irregular and there's a definate 'aging/yellowing to both the pick-ups and control knobs.

It is much lighter than a 'genuine' strat but in most issues (apart from the 'slotted' winding posts, it is very similar to my friend's £1000 plus reissue Strat. The main difference is that I prefer to play mine - I just love the slim and shallow neck. He also has a very expensive Les Paul Studio and I still prefer mine.

I have to say that I'm 57 and over the years have played lots of top end guitars but there is something very special about this guitar regardless of model and value.


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Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:11 am
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Well, I've removed the neck and scratchplate which has answered one question with a degree of certainty and that's year of manufacture which is 1995. It says 3-9-1995 inspector 'K' and the neck is stamped ST-360R. Going on previous information supplied, I take this to mean 1960 reissue?

Here are the pictures just in case anyone can tell me more.

Image


Image

Thanks everybody for your help so far.

Terry


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Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:23 pm
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I just lifted this from a Telecaster site, it's quite interesting if true (although mine has made in Japan on it)

'90’s Fender Mexico w/ Black Decal: A Mystery Uncovered

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You might have heard of mexican made Fender guitars with a black headstock decal, sometimes associated with some mystery Squier Series made in Mexico. It’s true that there actually was a “Squier Series” that was made by Fender in Mexico and featured a black decal on the headstock, but not all mexican made Fender guitars with such a black label were part of that very “Squier Series”. Since there appears to be a lot of confusion and half-knowledge about these guitars out there, I decided to do some research on my own.

The black label was used by Fender Mexico for a limited time only between 1993 and 1998. It can be found exclusively on the rather short lived mexican “Traditional” and “Squier” series for the Telecaster, Stratocaster and Precision Bass. Usually, Squier is to Fender what Epiphone is to Gibson. In this very case, the use of the name “Squier” had nothing to do with the actual Squier brand, as the series was named “Squier Series”, but it was by all means a Fender series, not a Squier series. The keyword is “series”, not “Squier”. The regular mexican “Standard” series was available too at the time, but it already featured the same silver-ish logo that is still used for it today. However, between 1993 and 1998, both labels (the black AND the silver-ish one) were used for mexican made Fender guitars, but for (slightly) different guitars.

The guitars with the black label consisted mostly of overstock american made Fender necks and bodies. The parts were shipped to Mexico for assembly with mexican made pickups and far eastern hardware and electronics. The overall quality of these guitars turned out to be below the Squiers made in Japan and Korea, whose production came to an end around the time the mexican made guitars with the black label surfaced, yet above Squiers made in China and Indonesia, whose production had not yet begun at the time. The guitars ended up on the american and european market for just about as much as a guitar from the regular “Standard” series would cost at the time.

Some (not all!) of the guitars were sold for a few bucks less as they came with 1-ply pickguards and hardware of slightly lesser quality. Those guitars (and those only!) had an additional smaller “Squier Series” label on front of the headstock, right were the artist models have the artist’s signature. Though some owners probably sanded off their “Squier Series” label, it is not true that all guitars with a black label had a “Squier Series” label in the first place. Most guitars with the black label featured tuners and bridges of decent quality as well as 3-ply pickguards. These guitars did not have the additional “Squier Series” label and were called the “Traditional Series”, which was stated nowhere on the headstock but the guitars were listed, advertised and sold as such.

The “Traditional Series” can be considered the slightly better but the “Squier Series” sure is the more obscure. At the end of the day, there really is not that much difference between the two. The most significant difference can be found on the Telecaster. The Telecaster from the “Traditional Series” had the traditional through-body stringing, while the Telecasters from the “Squier Series” were Top Loaders with different bridges, saddles and no string holes in the back.

The guitars from that very “Squier Series” are official and genuine Fender guitars like any mexican made Fender guitar regardless, and if you have a mexican made Fender Telecaster, Stratocaster or Precision Bass with a black label and a serial number beginning with MN3, MN4, MN5, MN6, MN7 or MN8, you have a genuine Fender guitar – with or without a small “Squier Series” label.'


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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:38 am
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I have at long last reached what I think is going to be the closest to a definitive answer to the origins of my strat.

I emailed Fender with all the information and pictures and this is the reply

Model Name: Squier Standard Stratocaster

Model Number: 027-4600-(Color #) and 027-4602-(Color #)

Body: Basswood

Neck: Maple

Fingerboard: Rosewood #027-4600 or Maple #027-4602, 7.25" Radius (184.2mm)

No. of Frets: 21

Scale Length: 25.5” (648 mm)

Width at Nut: 1.625” (41 mm)

Hardware: Chrome

Machine Heads: Standard

Bridge: Vintage Style Tremolo

Pickguard: 1-Ply White 8 Hole

Pickups: 3 Single Coils

Pickup Switching: 3 position Switch

Controls: Master Volume, Tone, Tone

Colors: (502) Lake Placid Blue, (506) Black, (558) Torino Red, (580) Arctic White

Strings:

UNIQUE FEATURES:

ACCESSORIES:

Source: JAPAN

MSRP: $299.99 to $419.99

Introduced: 1985

Discontinued:

Notice:



Ed Treat

This gave me the model number which I then checked out in Peter Bertges' 'Fender reference' and this is what it revealed

1.2.2 Standard Stratocaster
1985 - 1997. This Japanese-built guitar is identical to the American Standard Stratocaster
as introduced in 1986 in the new Corona factory.
Differing Features:
Model no. 027-4600/2, Japan
Head 1 string clamp
Changes over the years:
1988 Locking nut
1989 2nd version, similar to Mexican Standard Stratocaster
but with 2 string retainers
1992 3rd version (?)
1996 only LH version (027-4620)
Basswood body
1-ply white pickguard w. 8 screws

This is an extremely informative document and can be downloaded from the web.

So from this information it would appear that in all but name, mine is a genuine Strat.


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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:52 am
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Just when I thought my search for information was over, I noticed in the spec list fender sent me, it refered to a 3 way pick-up switch. I just checked and mine is 5 way, so I guess I'm going to have to accept that these are a bit of a mixture.

Happy Christmas everyone.


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Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:29 pm
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paisley strat wrote:
If you want to see a 1987 MIJ Squire E series Stratocaster, take a look at mine. it is all stock except for the entire tremelo bridge assembly. The original was rusted too badly to use, so was replaced by a GFS vintage bent steel saddle model. Image
Image
During the 1980s Fender was making some very nice guitars under the Squire name. this is one of them. It truly rivals the MIJ Fender guitars of that time.
Does anybody know if this model was a re-issue of a particular vintage Fender Strat year?? It has quite a few vintage touches(8 hole single ply pickguard, butt end truss rod adjuster, fiesta red color, vintage size fretsw/ maple neck) It looks like it could be a vintage re-issue except for the modern style string trees and die-cast "Fender" tuners.


The guitar itself isn't a reissue. Fender Japan made 50's and 60's guitars, which were based off of 54/57 and 62 models. This is not one of them. Your neck on the other hand, might be based off of one. The last two numbers of the neck should tell you. I have a 84 MIJ strat. I always thought it was based off of a 57. Well when I looked in the neck pocket it read st - 357v. Yours could be the same style. The only thing on the neck that is not consistent with a 57 is the additional string tree, which they added on 57 necks that didn't have the vintage tuners (which are staggered and don't require 2 trees).


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