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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:37 pm
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That makes the used CS models look very attractive. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:33 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
That makes the used CS models look very attractive. :idea:

Just to reitterate a post of mine today in another thread on this Forum, George Gruhn is of the opinion that potential guitar collectors seriously consider used Custom Shop models.

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:43 am
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Honestly, every time I hear back from the poor guy at the store I feel bad for him. Which I just did btw, and I'll fill you in on the "progress". Let's just say used is looking better and better.

In short, Getting any sort of definitive answer is like pulling teeth.

First, I ask for case options available. The stock case is the 50's tweed. Which while I love the one of my 57 RI I am thinking of replacing with a white or blonde tolex G&G replacement for gigging as it's already getting a little beat up and putting the tweed in the closet. So it got me thinking about case options. So I decided to ask. You know, it's a "custom one-off" so why not, right? Since G&G makes a lot of awesome bass cases that Fender doesn't ever offer with production line reissues I figure it's worth a shot.

When asked Fender's response was...

"It comes with the stock Tweed, but the customer can order anything he likes as long as it's not a limited edition."

Ummmm, Could you vague that up for me a bit? How about a list of available options? So, just like with the color chart discrepancies, bridge/mute issues, this is turning into another guessing game. Where I have to ask for an option. Wait a month for a response. Then hope it's something they will do. If not, I have to come up with another "guess" and start the process all over. It's seriously taxing.

Like I said. Not the kind of communication I would expect from a "custom operation". Certainly not one who is charging THOUSANDS of dollars for their product. Or from one that has the muscle behind it Fender does thanks to the production run operation.

So to catch you up on the color chart discrepancy issue. When I noticed the color chart was different than the listed colors on the 2014 build sheet I asked for a complete list of available trans finishes. I was gotten back to with a list of "popular finishes" and the info that I could get more if I wanted. I specifically asked for the COMPLETE list of trans finishes. What part of that was confusing? I don't need someone behind a desk thinking for me. I don't care what's popular. I want to know what my options are.

In the end, I hate to compromise. I have come around to my girlfriend's thinking that if I'm spending that kind of money on a bass that I should get EXACTLY what I want. She even went so far as to point out that I saved 900 bucks by getting a used American Vintage 57 RI that I've always wanted and not just treating myself to a brand new one. So I should think of that 900 as money I saved toward getting myself something special. I'm a pretty lucky guy.

However, this entire process is wearing thin. The reality is I can save myself 1500 bucks. Get a used CS bass, and if I don't like it. Simply sell it for no loss. Plus, save myself a ton of headache. I think the Fender Custom Shop needs to seriously look at their business model and ask "how do we make this a better experience for our customers?". Because honestly? This sucks.

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:50 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
In short, Getting any sort of definitive answer is like pulling teeth.


That being something I've a passing familiarity with, let's see if we can't get to the root of the matter. :idea: :!: :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:29 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
In short, Getting any sort of definitive answer is like pulling teeth.


That being something I've a passing familiarity with, let's see if we can't get to the root of the matter. :idea: :!: :wink:



:lol: It's really mindboggling to me that this is what passes for "customer service" in an organization like this. Obviously the people working in the shop do not have time to answer questions and hash out builds. They are busy building instruments. However, is it too much to ask that you get someone remotely competent on the other end.

Also, what the hell is the deal with not being able to speak to the rep directly? No offense. Any grade schooler knows the real life application of sending information through multiple sources. How does anyone get an instrument they are happy with at this rate? It's like dealing with someone about a defective toaster oven. "Here's your script, Jimmy. All calls that come in get handled through the script. It doesn't matter what the customer wants, or requests. If they have a specific question about finish. Sit on the email for a month. Then respond back with the generic "popular finish" list. When they respond to that. Sit on it for another month." It's ridiculous.

The sad part is. If you could sit down on a conference call, or web exchange with the Rep, Dealer, and Customer. You could probably hash it all out in a session and be underway. This game of third party email or phone tag is ridiculous.

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:52 am
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Hi TheKingofPain and all,

Let me just get right to the first "issue" of this thread. You are correct....we (the Custom Shop) CAN do the mute.....BUT do not because this is something that is specifically for the Sean Hurley Bass and we hold to the integrity of the contracts and agreements that we make with our artists. That is about what is right.....not necessarliy about what is profitable. We could make alot of money selling Keith Richard's style Tele's in the shop....we don't though. We make Claptons in the Shop......but only with his approval.

So, sorry about that...I get that its a pain and disappointing and makes it seem difficult to traverse what we will or won't and can and can't do in the Custom Shop. Its not just arbitrary though.

On to the colors------these http://www.fender.com/support/color-chart/
are all the colors we offer on a "Team Built" guitar or bass. Anything outside of that is what we call a "color match" , would require a physical picture sent to us and travels into the realm of Masterbuilt. It can be done. But yes it is extra.

Cases----- I admit to being a bit confused as i think that the answer given is pretty straight forward. We can arrange for whatever you want as long as it is not already a Limited Edition case. The part I'm confused about is a wish for a list. But also the wish for a custom case. Again......we have a list of cases.....and then there is: what do you have in mind?

At any rate Thekingofpain, I apologize that you're not having a great experience, and i understand that sometimes the back and forth between yourself-- to the dealer-to the Shop Sales guys- and sometimes to the Shop -----and back again can be a bit maddening and time consuming. Although obviously we are partnered with our dealers and don't want to cut them out or step on their toes.....if you want to speak to one of the Custom Shop Sales guys directly, send me a PM with your name, phone number, which dealer you're going through and I'm pretty sure that i can get one of the guys to call you directly and see if you can hash it out or at least hear it for yourself.

To clear up some other discussion on this thread, here's how it plays out.
CUSTOM SHOP- In Corona---they build. Alot of them don't have phones. Cuz they build.
Master Builders DO have conversations with consumers ordering Masterbuilt stuff.
CUSTOM SHOP SERVICE- on occasion we have custom product that needs some repair or extra love for whatever reason. These are a couple of really good guys that know their stuff and go the extra mile all the time. They are not on the phone too much because their main gig is repair.
CUSTOM SHOP SALES- Mostly based in Scottsdale but also in Corona and much communication and travel is involved. These guys mainly speak with dealers.
CUSTOMER SERVICE-- On the phones (email, etc.) here in Scottsdale, AZ.

Sorry for the length of this reply, but feel like the thread deserved a bit of attention. Thekingofpain....again...sorry you're not too happy about things. The offer stands though. PM me if you like.

All the best,
rob

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:02 pm
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ME AGAIN!!!

ok....so a slight correction/explanation. The color chart I linked to is technically the "production" color chart and is painted.....wait for it.....in production.

The list below is the actual Custom Shop color list painted in......you guessed it....the Custom Shop.
(Two different paint rooms)
So for instance.....Dun Green is not on the Custom Chart......but could likely be duplicated in the shop without too much trouble.

So below is the official Custom Shop Colors available from our Quote guide:
00 3 Color Sunburst
01 White Blonde
02 Lake Placid Blue
03 2 Color Sunburst
04 Daphne Blue
05 Olympic White
06 Black
07 Vintage Blonde
08 Ocean Turquoise
09 Candy Apple Red
12 Red Sparkle*
13 Blue Sparkle*
15 Hot Rod Red
17 Silver Sparkle*
18 Gold Sparkle*
19 Sage Green Met.
20 Amber
21 Natural
22 Sunset Orange Trans
23 Pearl White
24 Inca Silver
25 Chrome Red
26 Violet
27 Sapphire Blue Trans
28 Crimson Burst
29 Blue Agave
30 Cherry Sunburst
31 Aged Cherry Sunburst
32 Brown Sunburst
33 Violin Burst
34 Aged Natural
36 Blue Burst
55 Frost White
56 Shell Pink
57 Surf Green
58 Torino Red
59 Black Pearl
60 Emerald Green Trans
61 Bing Cherry Trans
62 Cobalt Blue Trans
63 Graffiti Yellow
66 Burgundy Mist Met
67 Honey Blonde
68 Lime Green
70 Cadmium Orange
71 Candy Green
72 Sonic Blue
73 Midnight Blue
74 Aqua Marine Met.
75 Midnight Wine
76 Midnight Purple
77 Frost Red
78 Aztec Gold
79 Frost Gold
80 Frost White
81 Surf Pearl
82 Candy Tangerine
83 Ice Blue Met.
84 Copper
85 Bright Amber Met.
86 Bright Sapphire Met.
87 Cobalt Blue Met.
88 Desert Sunset
89 Desert Sand
CF Charcoal Frost Met.
HB Honey Burst

All the best,
rob

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:58 pm
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THAT.....is what I'M talk'in about. :!: 8)

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:44 pm
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Rob,


THANK YOU!!! The color chart explanation in the second post is EXACTLY what I was looking for on that front. The fact that the discrepancies between the color chart and the CS build list was different AND the fact that the CS could do the production run colors. (Possibly requiring an upcharge, which is fine.) Also, and if you need to reply in a message that's cool. Does the "artist exclusivity" extend to factory production models? Such as for finishes. If a finish is offered in the regular factory line on an artist model. Does that mean the CS cannot reproduce it? Or is that for CS models and artist agreements only?

As far as the cases go here is what I'm getting at. Are the Precision Bass case options only production run and Fender replacement case options? I am only interested in the tweed/tolex G&G style cases. I know that G&G offers different cases than what comes stock on Fender basses. Such as say a White Blonde/Red 63 style case, or perhaps the black and grey tweed for a Precision Bass. I certainly don't expect a case that was specifically made for a limited edition run. I'm just wondering does the CS order cases from G&G and are more than the same old options available. (ie: 50's tweed/orange, 60's brown tolex/ gold, or the black tolex with orange or black lining) This is probably something guitarists don't run into since guitarist get many more options. On pretty much everything when it comes to actual runs. However, Precision basses don't really get a lot of production options. If you need to reply to me in a message on this I understand.

As far as the mute I understand the contractual obligations. It certainly is disappointing, though. Especially as it is such a truly functional upgrade. As opposed to something like a finish, or custom inlay, ect. This in addition to my overall experience has really made the decision of taking the plunge on this one I am seriously reconsidering.

On the way the process is set up. I really don't think the problem here is my dealer, and I hate to say that. However, I have seen his frustration first hand and have seen the CS reps responses. So I'm not sure cutting out the dealer is really the fix, and I certainly am not eager to step on anyone's toes. I get that as a giant corporation Fender has to function in this way, and thanks for understanding that it can be frustrating.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:20 pm
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Heya TKoP,
I made it home!!! woot!!
I'll check on the questions posed in the post above and get back with you hopefully tomorrow. Just guessing here, but I would guess that there ARE certain colors that WOULD fall under an agreement---the Buddy Guy Polka Dot comes to mind as that is very identifiable with Buddy. So its reasonable to expect that a production signature model (or other "special" models like an FSR) with a unique and identifiable finish would be a gamble. But there are exceptions.....the "Mary Kay" finish --white blonde--comes to mind. Best thing to do is come forth with an idea of what you want---you mentioned a trans-----and we'll see what we can do. Again, I know it can get complicated...but we actually (honest!!) do want to try to come as close as we can to getting you a dream bass (or guitar as the case may be) and we're not any happier when things go south then you are.
"Large Corporation".....I guess we are...I just never think of us like that...maybe I'm delusional......but really...whatever you may think...at the end of the day we're dealing with people. Master Builders and Custom Shop people are highly skilled and talented...but I know for a fact that a good portion of them have played as many dive bars and schools etc. as you and I, ya know?

Anyway...uh-oh..... soap-boxin again eeek!! :shock: :shock:
I'll get back with you and see what we can work out. I appreciate you hanging in there, and yes...I do appreciate you letting us know that you're not too thrilled so far....room for improvement.
Have a good night!
All the best,
rob

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:22 pm
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Rob,

To give you a more specific example. Right now I'm torn between Bing Cherry Trans and the Oxblood that comes on the Troy Van Leeuwen. I just upgraded from my old SWR 550X and two Pro Fender 115s to a new Bassman 100T and 410 Neo in blonde/oxblood. (which is amazing!!!)

As I'm already happily gigging my American Vintage 57 RI P in White Blonde with the 10 hole replacement Tort guard. I was looking to maybe "match" the grille clothe this time on the body, and then go with either a white or gold anodized guard. Kind of like a negative on my ideal single coil of what I have now on my ideal split coil. Now I know there's no trans Oxblood, but the Bing Cherry seems "close". However, the Oxblood from the Jazzmaster is about as dead on as it gets. So I'm torn between seeing that beautiful ash through the Cherry, or the closer match with the Oxblood.

I certainly would never call into question the builders. When I say the "large corporation" aspect I just mean the people on the phones in between and the things that go along with that. Something you might not get at an independent. Still, to me. Vintage Fender specs from Fender is still the standard. So I'm hoping this all works out.

Thanks again for all your help.

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Last edited by TheKingofPain on Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:20 am
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Rob Schwarz-Fender wrote:
..... there ARE certain colors that WOULD fall under an agreement---the Buddy Guy Polka Dot comes to mind as that is very identifiable with Buddy.



See KoP, you're not the only one who went up against the wall. At the time I owned one of those, which I called 'The Domino' for obvious reasons, I saw Buddy pictured with a Strat I named 'The Dalmation' [black dots on white]. I'd also seen one in white on red. I asked if I could have a Dalmation built. It was denied. Obviously, the 'shop' was not authorized to build such an option. Given the fact that he had one like that I couldn't fathom the reason for the denial other than perhaps Buddy wanted an exclusive on that one and would OK it, but the 'shop' wasn't going to pursue the question.

I know there are other 'copy' sources which would refinish a guitar for me in that fashion, but would have preferred that Fender do it.

BTW: Rob...you still da man. Thanks for jumping on board so promptly.

Doc :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:48 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
Rob Schwarz-Fender wrote:
..... there ARE certain colors that WOULD fall under an agreement---the Buddy Guy Polka Dot comes to mind as that is very identifiable with Buddy.



See KoP, you're not the only one who went up against the wall. At the time I owned one of those, which I called 'The Domino' for obvious reasons, I saw Buddy pictured with a Strat I named 'The Dalmation' [black dots on white]. I'd also seen one in white on red. I asked if I could have a Dalmation built. It was denied. Obviously, the 'shop' was not authorized to build such an option. Given the fact that he had one like that I couldn't fathom the reason for the denial other than perhaps Buddy wanted an exclusive on that one and would OK it, but the 'shop' wasn't going to pursue the question.

I know there are other 'copy' sources which would refinish a guitar for me in that fashion, but would have preferred that Fender do it.

BTW: Rob...you still da man. Thanks for jumping on board so promptly.

Doc :wink:



I get why someone like Buddy, or Keith as mentioned before would want their personal specs protected. Personally, I don't agree, and I'd personally be honored if any player thought what I cooked up was cool enough to play. Still, it's their design so it is what it is. I can even see it with Buddy's guitar, though I certainly sympathize with your plight and it's nice to know that I'm no the only one who has stood there staring at a "Custom Shop" build sheet and has felt the sting of being told "No". It kind of kills the "Custom" feel of it. Buddy's polka dots are kind of his visual trademark, and since the factory runs are being done. Having one look that is his and only his probably means something to him. So in some instances I can see both sides, but personally I don't think I could ever be the type of person to say "no" don't copy my guitar. That, to me. Seems kind of small. Now, when it comes to just plain finishes I think we are getting in a little deep. The idea that you can take a more obscure plain color off an old color chart and bring it back and then say. "No one else can have it." seems a bit much, to me. If that is the case.

I think what confuses me with the Hurley is that he's putting it out on a sig model. So it's not like he is like "No it's mine! I helped design it! I want to be the only one with it." Which I think everyone knows isn't true. As pointed out it's a mod on the old guitar mute and as I said. I remember hearing tale of Bob Babbit having one done YEARS ago by the Custom Shop. What he's saying is that if you want this great Fender part you have to buy my instrument. Which, again. Were I in the market for an early 60's Split Coil reissue I would probably be happy to do. However, for us 50's P and Jazz bass guys it's kind of a kick in the junk. In the Buddy instance that would be like him telling you that you can't custom order your own strat with his finish, but you can buy a strat from the CS with his specs and that finish. Which is kind of illogical to put it nicely.

Props to Rob, though. I came here really just looking to vent and in hopes that I wasn't alone in my frustration. I see that I am not and that does take some of the sting out of it. I really do greatly appreciate Rob's help on this, and any expediting of narrowing down my choices will only make the game of email and phone tag go that much quicker.

Thanks to everyone who's pitched in to help out.

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:45 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
....Buddy's polka dots are kind of his visual trademark, and since the factory runs are being done. Having one look that is his and only his probably means something to him. So in some instances I can see both sides, but personally I don't think I could ever be the type of person to say "no" don't copy my guitar. That, to me. Seems kind of small.


What's particular to my issue is the fact that I knew that "The Domino" [as I've dubbed it] was conceived to be based on the Standard Stratocaster MIM product to satisfy Buddy's desire to have an Artist Series model at a price point a larger segment of his audience could meet. He made a point of that in an interview I read somewhere. There had been in place, for quite some time, an MIA Artist Series instrument, factory built, available in two different finishes, with a more sophisticated electronics [Lace Sensors, midboost and TBX] at a higher price point. [This has since been discontinued much to the chagrin of some.] Hence, when I saw him pictured with 'The Dalmation', I assumed there was something new under the sun and asked about it. There was a feature article on Buddy in an issue of Vintage Guitar magazine wherein he discussed a new guitar Paul Waller built for him. This one was finished in a kind of 'electric' blue with white dots. Very pretty. Buddy has been seen regularly using a blond '89 Custom Shop Strat for quite some time now and I know that it was taken apart and documented some years back at one of the Crossroads Festival. However, there has been no indication, to date, of intention to bring either of these models into the Artist Series, Custom Shop Signature Series, or Tribute Series lines.

Seven years experience on the Lounge Forums has given us cause to curb our enthusiasm. For certain, the company will continue in some manner, shape, or form, with or without it.

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Post subject: Re: Wow... Really disappointed with my Custom Shop quote.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:37 am
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Yikes. That is bizarre. "I came up with this new guitar so people who can't afford my current guitar can get something cool. However, I'm going to keep people who want to spend good money on a guitar from using the finish on it." That seems... odd.

In the end, as you say. We are but drops in a bucket and in the grand Fender scheme of things. What do they really care if I order this instrument or not? I'm sure they don't care at all. Now, if I were Musician's Friend and I was placing an order for a baker's dozen of custom shop instruments every year. Well. That might be a different story.

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