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Post subject: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:09 am
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I was hoping to ask ME this question, but I see that he's gone... I'm hoping that someone at the CS might like to weigh-in...

I had the opportunity to play one of the new 2014 '56 Heavy Relic strats over the weekend. I was absolutely FLOORED by the open, airy, bell-like tone. I loved it.

I am personally not a fan of "artificial relic-ing"; I prefer to relic my own guitars through years of playwear. And I'm not knocking those who dig the relics; to each their own! Play 'em and enjoy 'em! Regardless, I never gave a second thought to a relic- much less a Heavy Relic- for myself.

Welp, I played a Heavy Relic '56 all this weekend, and that beast RANG LIKE BELLS. It was a WONDERFUL instrument. My question for you folks- and hopefully someone at the CS as well- do you feel that the lack of finish on these HRs are the reason that this guitar was SO darn good? I know sometimes you'll run across a "real special guitar", but to the CS's credit- I've had a few CS guitars and found them to be consistently of very good quality. Haven't come across a CS "dog" yet. So, I don't think that this guitar was just "a gem".

What I am asking is whether it is the opinion of the professionals that build these guitars- or those of you that have owned both HR and NOS- that the HR process indeed results in better tone than a NOS instrument? Thoughts? Experiences?


<I know that tone is subjective and YMMV, yada, yada, yada...> It just stands to reason that a NOS guitar with more finish on it would choke the tone of the wood more than a HR instrument would, theoretically. I'm wondering if this is a fact?


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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:29 am
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I heard a rumor that the relic instruments are being put in a sort of vibration chamber which is supposed to vibrate the instrument to simulate many years of playing.

Some details of this principle are here:
http://www.klangoptimierung.de/en/soundoptimization/

Other than that the thickness of the lacquer has an obvious effect. Lacquer shrinks with age and I guess that Fender tries to simulate this with the relics by applying less layers. The question is how relics will look like in 50 years when the already-ultra-thin lacquer will shrink by the laws of chemistry and physics.


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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:44 am
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I'll answer this when my NOS shows up later this year.

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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:03 am
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Tomcaster wrote:
I heard a rumor that the relic instruments are being put in a sort of vibration chamber which is supposed to vibrate the instrument to simulate many years of playing.

Some details of this principle are here:
http://www.klangoptimierung.de/en/soundoptimization/


Thanks Tomcaster! I didn't think about that... and now that you mention it, that certainly would make a TON of sense. My good friend uses his Tonerite on ALL of his guitars to vibrate them and open up the wood pores more. He SWEARS by this process (as do some others that I know); says it makes all the difference in the world.

Good point man... thanks so much for your insight!


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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:19 am
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John Mayer's Black1 is a heavy relic strat.
As he said: The more finish the guitar has, the less natural sounding it will have because the wood will resonate less.


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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:32 am
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Eric Clapton played the opening riff on the track "Layla" with his '56 2-TSB Strat, (aka) Brownie, and that guitar at that time didn't have a scratch on it, much less was it a heavy relic or even just a regular relic.

The sound, tone and resonance he has there with just those first seven notes speak volumes, so the finish doesn't make any difference.

I've had a variety of NOS's, Closet Classics', Relics and Heavy Relics, and they all sounded great from one to the other, it's just aesthetics', whichever look you like the best, that's the one to go with, they all each have their own unique sound, but they all sound great.


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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:17 am
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Relic G Man wrote:
Eric Clapton played the opening riff on the track "Layla" with his '56 2-TSB Strat, (aka) Brownie, and that guitar at that time didn't have a scratch on it, much less was it a heavy relic or even just a regular relic.

The sound, tone and resonance he has there with just those first seven notes speak volumes, so the finish doesn't make any difference.

I've had a variety of NOS's, Closet Classics', Relics and Heavy Relics, and they all sounded great from one to the other, it's just aesthetics', whichever look you like the best, that's the one to go with, they all each have their own unique sound, but they all sound great.


Image

Brownie's body was pretty clean, but look at that neck. The previous owners had played the beejesus out of that guitar.

I don't particularly subscribe to the thin finish thing on solidbodies. But for those that do, they could look at Brownie and say that maybe it's the finish on the neck that matters.

I have found that solidbodies do "break in" somewhat with extensive playing, and I assume that any sort of vibrations would do the same. Sandpaper, banging it with keys, scraping -- maybe that's what contributes to the relic sound.


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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:17 pm
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Clapton put most of that fret board wear on Brownie himself.


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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:03 pm
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Relic G Man wrote:
Clapton put most of that fret board wear on Brownie himself.


The neck had almost identical wear in '69 when he had it mounted on a Tele body in the Blind Faith days, and in 1970 for his first solo album when it was back on Brownie.

ImageImage

Image

While I find it difficult to believe that all that fretboard wear happened in 2 years, I don't really care if Brownie was pristine in '67 when he bought it. It wasn't pristine when he recorded Layla, which was your original contention. The neck was very much in heavy relic condition at that point, even if the body was still in very good shape.


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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:20 pm
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OTOH, Brownie was only 14 years old when Layla was recorded in Nov 1970. Compared to the way modern nitro wears, it's difficult to wrap one's mind around that much fretboard wear in that little time.

So of course you may be right and Brownie really was near-mint in '67. But that still doesn't change the fact that Brownie wasn't mint when Layla was recorded.


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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:39 pm
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I stand corrected, but I'm sure Brownie sounded just as good when she came out of the factory in '56 as she did in '70, also, you have to consider that a lot of that tone comes from Clapton's fingers.

I still say that an NOS will sound just as good and tonefull as a heavy relic, so my point is, if the OP doesn't care much for relics, then an NOS is a fine way to go.


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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:59 pm
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martysnarf wrote:
What I am asking is whether it is the opinion of the professionals that build these guitars- or those of you that have owned both HR and NOS- that the HR process indeed results in better tone than a NOS instrument? Thoughts? Experiences?[/b]

<I know that tone is subjective and YMMV, yada, yada, yada...> It just stands to reason that a NOS guitar with more finish on it would choke the tone of the wood more than a HR instrument would, theoretically. I'm wondering if this is a fact?


It is my conclusion, having owned all four of the custom shop finishes, that the heavy relic process does not result in better tone. It has been my experience that you can't go wrong with any of them.

(As I stated earlier in a previous post)
I've had a variety of NOS's, Closet Classics', Relics and Heavy Relics, and they all sounded great from one to the other, it's just aesthetics', whichever look you like the best, that's the one to go with, they all each have their own unique sound, but they all sound great.


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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:58 pm
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Not sure if this could be added to Brownie posts, but I thought I read/watched an EC interview that he said he liked to buy well used/worn guitars, he always thought they must be good if played that much, and often would often swap parts from guitar with others.... make partscasters.

yeah... 1:40 in here: http://www.openculture.com/2013/02/eric ... roots.html


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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:16 am
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Thank you guys for all the great responses! I appreciate your time and insight very much. :D


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Post subject: Re: Heavy Relic vs NOS tone?
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:58 pm
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martysnarf wrote:
Thank you guys for all the great responses! I appreciate your time and insight very much. :D


You're welcome martysnarf, I hope what I added helps.


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