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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:09 am
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Relic G Man wrote:
And what exactly is your dog and hunt, I feel it would help to fill us all in on your information so we're no longer in the dark.

The 'dog in the hunt' [without violating confidences] has to do with the nature of relationships with each other that several of us have cultivated across these many years of sharing thoughts and ideas on the many topics of discussion herein. Take Butterscotch's 'well put' to my comment as a reflection of that. Suffice it to say, without further explanation as to why, that not withstanding the restructuring going on in the company, it is my sense that he was not expecting it to affect him. Were I a casual observer, noting the close proximity in dates of this separation to the NAMM videos of him 'selling' the Custom Shop, FMIC, and it's current work product for the show, I would be hard pressed not to arrive at the same conclusion. Revisiting the observations made by Arth1, I don't see any 'sentimentality', [if I can use that word to describe Fender's seminal role in its industry,] coming to the fore where 'the money's' dog is concerned. There's not a 'Bill Schultz and Co.' in that lot. Weston Presidio's interest in FMIC has nothing to do with what it's place in the industry signified. Unlike the former,[who rescued Fender from the incompetence of CBS ownership] they have no 'love' for FMIC beyond the bottom line and, I have no doubt, would divest themselves of it in a heartbeat, if it became expedient to do so.

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Last edited by ZZDoc on Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:31 am
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I'm sorry, I have no idea what you guys are trying to say, I guess I'm just missing the point, unless you guys can put it in plain English, it's a real job reading between your lines, if you're going to talk about something on a forum and express such strong feelings about it, please, spell it out for us, thanks.

G


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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:41 am
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Relic G Man wrote:
And what exactly is your dog and hunt, I feel it would help to fill us all in on your information so we're no longer in the dark.

I haven't heard anything on this subject other than here, there isn't one word on this anywhere else.

G


Have you read this ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/busin ... html?_r=3&

Especially the last page resumes it all
About $237 million of its $246 million in long-term debt will be due in 2014 :shock:

Now, remember the CBS period. (1965-1985)
It took Fender years to come back after CBS .
Bill Schultz did a great work in restoring high quality standards.
It took him and his men at least 15 years to make the name Fender go with Quality again.
The last big quality improvement took place in 2006-2007, for the regular models as for the Custom Shop models.
The Time Machines were never so close to the real deals.
And exactly this might disappear again if Cost Reducing ist the word spread around at FMIC.
Unhappy employees won't bring the required enthusiasm in building quality instrument.

By the way, Hello to all of you. I’m new here and by reading some post, I had to react.
Working in Music Business since 1979, I’m really concerned about what’s going on
Not only because I'm a Fender aficionado since I play guitar but it's also my major Brand in my shop
When Fender gets a flew, the music retailers worldwide will sneeze !

Mike Eldred & Jack Schwartz are only the top of the iceberg.
Plenty Fender employees, WORLDWIDE, had already to leave since last year.
No one right now knows what will happen the next day and who will be next on the shootout list.
This information came to me from a Fender employee.
It's only a matter of time if the situation doesn't change, before some valuable Custom Shop Employees will leave too. :cry:
Of course, The Fender Brand will go on !
When these private investors have squeezed out all the cash possible, they’ll drop Fender like a rotten fruit in the garbage.
And a new investor will show up...................hopefully :?


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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:44 am
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Relic G Man wrote:
I'm sorry, I have no idea what you guys are trying to say, I guess I'm just missing the point, unless you guys can put it in plain English, it's a real job reading between your lines, if you're going to talk about something on a forum and express such strong feelings about it, please, spell it out for us, thanks...G


IMHO I've attempted to do that. When one has spent the past 55 years in a both an avocational and professional relationship with a company and its product line, and the nearly past 7 years in close communication, sharing with others of one's ilk, it is nigh on impossible to infuse that experience into someone to the extent that they can 'feel' this situation the way some of us do :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:48 am
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Hornbyskewes wrote:
Have you read this ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/busin ... html?_r=3&

...Of course, The Fender Brand will go on !
When these private investors have squeezed out all the cash possible, they’ll drop Fender like a rotten fruit in the garbage.
And a new investor will show up...................hopefully :?


There ya go! 8)

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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:48 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
Blertles wrote:
That's the only reason why I get up in the morning and my employer opens its doors everyday: To put bread on the table. You have to turn a profit before you satisfy customers, thats the way it is. No other reason and Fender is no different. No different for a CEO or a whole company. Staff legacies,.. its in the eye of the customer. There will be a replacement, whether or not he/she is more 'online' than Mike was, who knows. Ive learnt through a few restructures in my company, no job or employee is irreplaceable. Not even the CEO or the board.. no-one is safe.

But yeah I agree, the show goes on- regardless of who is at the helm- that's the way the cookie crumbles in business. I do wish Mike and whoever fills his boots, all the best :)

It's a valid observation save for the fact that every industry has its own particular characterisitics. Fender is not exactly making widgets. It's interface with the entertainment industry is signficant and so is the face which represents that. Other than its endorsees, Mike was the man who had, after John Paige, cultivated a working relationship with a very broad customer base and I expect that we all regarded him as a kind of 'personal friend'. He was the guy on the stomp, traveling world-wide representing the company and, often as not, the go to person for many of our issues and needs. He had acquired a kind of celebrity status of his own.

Now I realize that the 'suits'...i.e. 'the money' really don't give a 'flying f--k' about this 'sh-t' because that's not why they are in the game. That doesn't lessen the fact that some of us have a kind of dog in this fight, and don't take kindly to what has happened. Guitar Center, I am given to understand, is also on the ropes financially. If they folded, it would be no cause for me to mourn. But, for me personally, and certain others, Eldred, in this interface, is a loss.


Yeah you have a good argument on the flip side there doc, loss of profits have meant that the company has to take drastic measures- off-shore production, restructures.. Etc. it comes down to our demand for high quality at lower costs.. I would bank money on the fact that no CEO holding the wheel of the ship wants to see that happen, but you gotta do what you gotta do to keep an iconic company with a customer fan base afloat. Mike's profile was second to none and he will be missed- but as stated by someone else, it's probably the tip of the ice berg- that's if restructuring has been something to do with it. What else was there for mike to do- he was and is at the top of his game. Top dog in #1 of the most iconic customshop that sits under the #1 most iconic guitar brand.. Unless he wanted to be in a suit, but hey- who wants to do that when your a craftsman!

Looking from the outside in, Fender are probably one of the remaining 'all American' companies to keep production mostly in USA for its core products. You see companies all the time all around the world, buckling under financial pressure and selling out to the east.. Electronics, car industries, even clothing.. Maybe one day Fender USA production will be a thing of the past. Maybe our Customshop will be situated in Ensenada. 20 years ago, that would seem ridiculous- but now it's a sobering thought.

But Mike I would no doubt be in hot demand, he has one hell of a resume, Charvel customshop and Fender.. I'm sure he won't find it hard either securing a place with another guitar company, or even starting up his own shop.. And that wouldn't be a bad thing. He could do whatever he wants to do. He has the creds, the world is his oyster. Every black cloud has a silver lining and the head hunters are out..

And all businesses, need new direction after their 'cycle'. my opinion is that a CEO should not hold office more than 7-10 years.. Companies need to keep evolving.. The Customshop is no different & time for a fresh mind, a foot in a new direction, that's something I'm optimistic for.

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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:34 pm
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Hornbyskewes wrote:
Have you read this ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/busin ... html?_r=3&

By the way, Hello to all of you. I’m new here and by reading some post, I had to react.
Working in Music Business since 1979, I’m really concerned about what’s going on.


No, I hadn't read that. Thanks. I didn't know the numbers were that bad; back in 1980 and now.

Trying to recover from the recession is hard, losing the growth that the recession took away is even harder.

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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:24 pm
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I understand the concern, it's a tough situation indeed.

Hopefully everything will work out good for Fender and it's Custom Shop, I'm keeping a positive attitude.

G


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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:26 pm
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Blertles wrote:
But Mike I would no doubt be in hot demand, he has one hell of a resume, Charvel customshop and Fender.. I'm sure he won't find it hard either securing a place with another guitar company, or even starting up his own shop.. And that wouldn't be a bad thing. He could do whatever he wants to do. He has the creds, the world is his oyster. Every black cloud has a silver lining and the head hunters are out....

Mike is presently devoting most of his time to his music. You can follow The Mike Eldred Trio on Facebook. They've done two CD's thus far. The first, '61/49', the second, is an Elvis tribute. The former is my favorite of the two. Would be a good addition to anyones collection. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:48 am
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I guess looked at another way, the fender brand has the prestige, the custom shop is back ordered years, most folks on the internet have vast fender guitar collections, yet somehow the whole operation is hundreds of millions of dollars in debt. maybe not necessarily mikes fault, but can understand why heads are rolling.


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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:26 pm
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I think that the takeover of the Kaman group ( Ovation & Takamine ), Charvel, Jackson, Tacoma, SWR, Genz Benz, Hamer, Gretsch, Guild etc. wasn't the smartest move except maybe for Gretsch.
It did cost a hell of a money but I'm not quite sure that they've gotten a return on investment.
Hamer as a brand doesn't exist anymore at this moment. SWR is gone, Tacoma either. I can't remember for what purpose the Tacoma factory is used at these days.
Remembers me the Gibson company with all the brands chained to the company which cost money but are off market. Baldwin, Wurlitzer, Valley Arts, Steinberger, etc.
Rumours said, that Hartley Peavey wanted to buy Gibson back in 2007-2008.
By noticing, that there were more brands than Gibson/Epiphone to take over and the enormous debt Gibson was carrying, he stopped the deal as he didn't want to risk his healthy company
I thought that FMIC would have been smarter, but they wanted to be the biggest company in the world no matter what.
Well, they succeeded but at what costs :?:


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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:42 pm
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KPI wrote:
I guess looked at another way, the fender brand has the prestige, the custom shop is back ordered years, most folks on the internet have vast fender guitar collections


That's an interesting observation of the Fender Customshop. To me, that sums it up.

The Customshop must be choking on their backorders and aren't running efficiently. Yeah they have the orders but they need to move them & get them out the door as fast as they can to make money. If they can turn out a guitar from order placed to delivery in less than 12 months, then that's ideal and mildly efficient, they'd be making 3x the money. I can't conceive that the balance sheet looks positive working with a 3 year wait..

We see the exclusiveness of the wait times as being prestigious and for the 'few that are ready' but in actual fact, it makes no business sense unless they were to at least double the price of masterbuilt guitars.. Which won't happen. They need to up their speed and move those guitar orders quickly. I mean no disrespect here, but If my workplace worked like that, I'd be out of a job too along with a few others.

I'm sure manufacturers like Lamborghini can churn out custom orders faster than that.

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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:29 am
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Technically Mike wasn't in charge of the Master Builders, they have a different boss, but that being said, he was certainly a great face on the Custom Shop, and I am sure he will find or do something that he wants to.

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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:48 am
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Blertles wrote:
.... I mean no disrespect here, but If my workplace worked like that, I'd be out of a job too along with a few others.
I'm sure manufacturers like Lamborghini can churn out custom orders faster than that.

Interesting point of view. However, don't lose sight of the number of guitars they had to ready for the spread they did for the NAMM this year. :shock: I recall Mike's interview wherein he said they gave the Masterbuilders free reign this year and 'let them run wild' with ideas for guitars. Could you imagine Lamborghini having to ready a slew of one-off vehicles for the Geneva Auto Show before they served their private clientele? It's no wonder some of our members are waiting forever for their guitars. :?

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Post subject: Re: Ave Atque Vale...Mike Eldred
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:30 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
However, don't lose sight of the number of guitars they had to ready for the spread they did for the NAMM this year. :shock: I recall Mike's interview wherein he said they gave the Masterbuilders free reign this year and 'let them run wild' with ideas for guitars. Could you imagine Lamborghini having to ready a slew of one-off vehicles for the Geneva Auto Show before they served their private clientele? It's no wonder some of our members are waiting forever for their guitars. :?

Lamborghini is (in)famous for doing just that - showing off concept models that has cost a fortune to build, and is more outrageous than anything seen before. It's part of the legend of Lamborghini.

In my point of view, it would be good business to run Custom Shop at a loss, because it is, in reality, advertising and dream building. Those expensive NAMM models cause countless young budding musicians to want a Fender. Perhaps they'll buy a Squier, then a MIM, then an American, and only a small fraction of them will ever get a CS model, but I think it is good advertising. Unfortunately, I don't think those who wants their short term investments realized agree, or even care.

As for the future, I fear that FMIC is in dire straits right now. With Guitar Center on the verge of collapse, Fender's future is not too certain - Fender having to write off what GC owes them and losing a sixth of its sales would likely be too much for Fender to handle.
I think that in about two years, we may see a fourth generation Fender company. Some will be better, some will be worse. But there will always be a Strat or Tele for sale for as long as people line up to buy them.


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