It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:34 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:54 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 8
If a strat is signed by the luthier, like say...John Cruz, does that always make it a master built guitar, or could it be a team built?
Are all of the strats hanging in a shop(as opposed to contracted by an individual) which are signed, actually master built guitars?
how long is the wait for a Todd Krause Masterbuilt Strat?
Can a master builder make only a non relic flame maple neck for an existing master built strat that came with a relic maple neck?
How do you definitively tell if your guitar is master built or team built?


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:36 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:27 am
Posts: 4473
Location: Paris France
Welcome on the Forum
If you peruse this forum, you will find easily answers to all of your questions;
The COA (Certificate Of Authenticity) will give you most of the clues.
Now, please, go to get your answers...

_________________
http://www.guitarmotel.com


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:04 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 13467
Location: Palm Beach County FL
phraxos5 wrote:
If a strat is signed by the luthier, like say...John Cruz, does that always make it a master built guitar,?

YES

Are all of the strats hanging in a shop(as opposed to contracted by an individual) which are signed, actually master built guitars?

YES

how long is the wait for a Todd Krause Masterbuilt Strat?

FOREVER: A RECENT DISCUSSION CENTERED ON A MATTER CONCERNING ONE SUCH PROJECT THE ORDER FOR WHICH WAS PLACED 18 MOS AGO AND IS STILL IN THE PIPELINE. YOU'LL FIND THE THREAD BELOW.

Can a master builder make only a non relic flame maple neck for an existing master built strat that came with a relic maple neck?

NO. THE CUSTOM SHOP DOES NOT DO THOSE KINDS OF PROJECTS.

How do you definitively tell if your guitar is master built or team built?


TEAM BUILT GUITARS DO NOT CARRY THE LUTHIER'S SIGNATURE ACROSS THE LOGO ON THE BACK OF THE HEADSTOCK.

_________________
"Another day in paradise!"


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:39 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 8
great that is very helpful. Thanks a lot. I would also like to know how to find out how many of a certain master built series were built. Lets say you notice there is a run of 1956 stratocasters master built by john cruz that are in pairs at several different shops maybe in europe and the US. Is there a way to find out how many were made total?
the serial number of my guitar is R64883


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:24 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 1129
Location: UK
If you want to find more details about your guitar, you can contact consumerrelations@fender.com with the serial number, etc. and they will give you more info, but to the best of my knowledge the CS will not divulge unit sales.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:54 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 13467
Location: Palm Beach County FL
Butterscotch wrote:
If you want to find more details about your guitar, you can contact consumerrelations@fender.com with the serial number, etc. and they will give you more info, but to the best of my knowledge the CS will not divulge unit sales.

You're not the first with an interest in a particular run of guitars. If you specified your need to know, the CS might be willing to help you.

_________________
"Another day in paradise!"


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:17 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 8
Thanks, I see now. Well, my need to know is that I just bought a 7000$ Strat SN R64883, and It has been confirmed on here , at the shop, and by the custom shop, that the master built guitars are one off runs made only by the hands of a particular luthier. It seems that fact makes them automatically and inherently a limited edition of sorts. How many guitars can one guy make with his own hands or have the interest to make without mass production? The rest is left to speculation; But why speculate with a signed product that was handmade with the finest materials and attention to detail, and sold at a premium because of this attention. The only thing missing is an edition number like say 1/20. Lets just say that one of the Masterbuilders decided he wanted to go into the corporate side of fender or retired, then most likely everyone who had one of his guitars would see the value of his or her instrument rise. Anyway, that is my interest, and I think CS will help me find out how many black relic, special neck carve,1956 Strats Mr. Krause made during that particular run. If they don't it is ok if that is what they want to do. After all of this it is probably in the serial number. I am starting to think they are more like wine, in that they aren't important by individual bottle, but by batches made during a certain year by a certain luthier with the understanding that one guy would not and could not create more than a reasonable number of particular guitars unless he had the help of a team or mass production facilities, and that works for me. And it keeps the actual "CS limited editions" sacred. Also what the custom shop is doing now with their outfit, could produce some of the most valuable guitars in history in 50 years. I think ill buy another one soon. I should probably buy as many as i can. Like i was in a shop in april or may of 1959 buying bursted les pauls for 300.00
thanks for your help again.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:13 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:50 pm
Posts: 4602
Location: ˚ɷ˚
phraxos5 wrote:
Thanks, I see now. Well, my need to know is that I just bought a 7000$ Strat SN R64883, and It has been confirmed on here , at the shop, and by the custom shop, that the master built guitars are one off runs made only by the hands of a particular luthier. It seems that fact makes them automatically and inherently a limited edition of sorts. How many guitars can one guy make with his own hands or have the interest to make without mass production? The rest is left to speculation; But why speculate with a signed product that was handmade with the finest materials and attention to detail, and sold at a premium because of this attention.


Masterbuilt does not mean handmade. It's assembled by a master luthier, who picks and chooses from mostly factory made parts. The master builder will also do much of the finishing.

A truly handmade guitar would be prohibitively expensive in our day and age. There are few people who would be able to do things like casting and hand-filing machine gears, creating a neck using hand tools, or mixing turpentines and oils. When you look at a really old instrument, realize that someone really did do all those things, and it would take months of meticulous work for a single instrument.
Not so today. We don't have the time or skills anymore, and rely on factory prefab.
The upside is that today's instruments have overall higher consistent quality. But also fewer truly exceptional masterpieces.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:35 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 13467
Location: Palm Beach County FL
Along the lines of your questioning go to http://www.wildwoodguitars.com>Fender>Masterbuilt and you'll find 23 guitars built by John Cruz and 2 by Todd Krause. Wildwood is a Fender Showcase Dealer and they buy a large volume of guitars from many manufacturer as well. You'll see here, as well as their Custom Shop [aka Teambuilt] inventory, examples of orders for runs of guitars which could not be considered 'one-offs'. In the case of Wildwood, which often orders guitars like their '10''s which have uniqued specificiations, they may slightly differ from the standard specs of a guitar whether built in the Custom Shop or on the Production Line. For example..Eric Clapton models with 'thin skin nitro' finishes as opposed to poly. All these are likely responsible for the reason why it's a long wait for a private client wanting a true 'one-off' type build. Now what might that be? About 8 years ago I ordered a Teambuilt guitar: An Eric Clapton-type Stratocaster with a lightly tinted satin finished neck, a 'dark' 3-tone sunburst finish, medium jumbo frets, gold hardware, SCN pickups, and all plastic parts in black. Took 18 months for delivery and had to be sent back for revision because they used the wrong neck. It took another 6 mos to get it back. For records purpose on the COA the guitar was listed as a 1965 Stratocaster. In retrospect, I believe I'd have had less of an issue if I had specified a 1957 Stratocaster with a Clapton neck carve as the platform. But this was definitely a 'one-off' idea.

_________________
"Another day in paradise!"


Last edited by ZZDoc on Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:52 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 8
That is an amazing reply. I think you are completely right and I also don't mind a bit that they do it the way they do. It may be better as you say in some ways. Thinking about a guitar that was made 50 years ago and comparing it to a modern representation makes one wonder what these guitars will be like after they age for 50 years. The Masterbuilders are gathering information about how things were done and using their modern resources to make the instruments better, more precisely fitted. i have played and compared my guitar to regular guitars and the difference is priceless.
thanks!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:03 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 13467
Location: Palm Beach County FL
phraxos5 wrote:
i have played and compared my guitar to regular guitars and the difference is priceless.
thanks!

I have been playing Stratocasters since 1958. The minute I picked up that guitar I just described I could tell the difference. The same with the Gilmour I swapped it out for. You know it is difference, can't really put it into words. but it is. In the matter of runs, there are certain projects where you can know the number of units. The Tribute guitar projects have a definite number and the promos usually tell you how many will be built and offered for sale. :wink:

_________________
"Another day in paradise!"


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:09 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 8
ZZDoc wrote:
Along the lines of your questioning go to http://www.wildwoodguitars.com>Fender>Masterbuilt and you'll find 23 guitars built by John Cruz and 2 by Todd Krause. Wildwood is a Fender Showcase Dealer and they buy a large volume of guitars from many manufacturer as well. You'll see here examples of orders for runs of guitars which are likely responsible for the reason why it's a long wait for single customer wanting a 'one-off' type build.


Yes, I will do that.
Thanks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:56 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 8
ZZDoc wrote:
phraxos5 wrote:
i have played and compared my guitar to regular guitars and the difference is priceless.
thanks!

I have been playing Stratocasters since 1958. The minute I picked up that guitar I just described I could tell the difference. The same with the Gilmour I swapped it out for. You know it is difference, can't really put it into words. but it is. In the matter of runs, there are certain projects where you can know the number of units. The Tribute guitar projects have a definite number and the promos usually tell you how many will be built and offered for sale. :wink:


Yes! you can tell the difference. I would not know about the original 50s guitars but Im sure, like today, since they were all built what we know today as "custom" but actually stock at the time, there were gems...and dogs. But that presence, a singing note that sounds almost like a woman crying, is what i like. I hear that in my new Masterbuilt 56 strat. I would not change anything on this guitar because I would be scared of changing that tone.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:08 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 8
ZZDoc wrote:
Along the lines of your questioning go to http://www.wildwoodguitars.com>Fender>Masterbuilt and you'll find 23 guitars built by John Cruz and 2 by Todd Krause. Wildwood is a Fender Showcase Dealer and they buy a large volume of guitars from many manufacturer as well. You'll see here, as well as their Custom Shop [aka Teambuilt] inventory, examples of orders for runs of guitars which could not be considered 'one-offs'. In the case of Wildwood, which often orders guitars like their '10''s which have uniqued specificiations, they may slightly differ from the standard specs of a guitar whether built in the Custom Shop or on the Production Line. For example..Eric Clapton models with 'thin skin nitro' finishes as opposed to poly. All these are likely responsible for the reason why it's a long wait for a private client wanting a true 'one-off' type build. Now what might that be? About 8 years ago I ordered a Teambuilt guitar: An Eric Clapton-type Stratocaster with a lightly tinted satin finished neck, a 'dark' 3-tone sunburst finish, medium jumbo frets, gold hardware, SCN pickups, and all plastic parts in black. Took 18 months for delivery and had to be sent back for revision because they used the wrong neck. It took another 6 mos to get it back. For records purpose on the COA the guitar was listed as a 1965 Stratocaster. In retrospect, I believe I'd have had less of an issue if I had specified a 1957 Stratocaster with a Clapton neck carve as the platform. But this was definitely a 'one-off' idea.


Thanks for that info. I think that guitar you speak of becomes even more interesting since it was reworked for another 6 months. From a collectors standpoint it validates even more that it received a lot of individual scrutiny and workmanship to get it just right.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Masterbuilt Guitars
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:14 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 13467
Location: Palm Beach County FL
phraxos5 wrote:
I would not change anything on this guitar because I would be scared of changing that tone.

That's known as 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

As an aside, you might be interested in seeing the guitar I just acquired. It has an interesting history. Find the 'If you're wondering who bought it...I did" thread on the Lounge Forum. It would now be on page 3, Oct 20th. :wink:

_________________
"Another day in paradise!"


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: