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Post subject: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:09 am
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I'm expanding on a comment I made earlier in a post on the Lounge Forums. I had just finished looking at the MSRP's of the Haggard Tele and the new LTD Rosewood. My observation, in a sense was, it's getting to the point, financially, where I'll no longer be ready. It's not the affordability, it's my personal feelings about the dollar worth of the guitars. I have no quibble with what the Custom Shop considers to be its labor and materials production costs for its product. Their Masterbuilders are most excellent at what they do. I've reached my point of diminishing returns in terms of their manufacturing something I just can't do without. [ I purchased the Gilmour NOS guitar in 2008 @ $3900 but would not purchase the same guitar today at its current price.] I wonder how long it will take until others do as well, and then will the roof come crashing down on the entire operation. :?


Any thoughts :?:

Doc :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:19 am
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There will always be buggers out there with more money than sense.

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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:40 am
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AaronK wrote:
There will always be buggers out there with more money than sense.

FMIC will have to rely on that. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:33 pm
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Well...ZZDoc, I can tell you cannot keep up with the "Elitists" of the world. What people fail to realized that Buddy Holly, SRV, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton "Blackie" era, David Gilmour and countless others played off the wall Fender instruments. Back in the day, you had a choice of a fender Strat or tele with a custom color with rosewood or maple fretboards. That's it. These days are long gone, and some people think that they a production model instrument is substandard, and they need to have a guitar custom made, because only the best will do. They fail to realize that the "guitar greats" used stock models, more or less. Jimi Hendrix could use a Squire Strat and outplay you with your Custom Shop Gilmour with custom wound pickups. I think there are too many custom, limited edition, and overpriced guitars that are heavily marketed to consumers. Todays Fender American Standard is made from quality materials, workmanship, with CNC consistancy and high tolerances which exceed the vintage models in performance, construction and playability. Event the Japan and Mexican strats have great value and construction. I think the answer to your question is "are we buying a custom guitar as an elitist to impress others, or are we just looking for a quality product at an affordable price? I purchased the production models because I prefer not to vicariously live through my idols and I know my idols use off the wall instruments. If it good for them then it is good for me. IMHO.


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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:06 pm
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From a guy who used to own a '58 Strat back in the day when a '58 Strat was new, you're definitely preaching to the choir. IMHO todays guitars are better built as you suggest. I have an '89 Clapton which I paid $1850 for 5 years ago this summer because it was mint and I wanted another of that vintage having swapped out my '93 for another guitar. The Gilmour was a tad different and has a neck that suits my hand, as does my FSR V-neck Aged Cherry Burst VG Strat and my sunburst '57VHR. Each of these possess something unique. Most Fenders are equipped with modern C necks which I do not care for. The last Custom Shop special order I had done was nearly 10 years ago. It was 'almost right' but not quite and, had I known then what know now after 6 years with the Forums, I would have been more persistent about getting it perfect than I was. It was a well build guitar but it went out for the Gilmour. The prices on both of those guitars in their time were, IMHO, reasonable. But their price increases seem a tad steep for me now. I'm still waiting for the next Strat that really rings my chimes. It hasn't happened yet. I thought perhaps the new '56 AV but I'm acquainted with the 10/56 neck and it's a tad too bulky for me.

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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:51 am
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these prices are decent:
http://www.coda-music.com/fender-custom ... 13205.html

What bothers me is that for the last few years there hasn't been much variety in specs, it's always 9.5" radius, twisted tele, fat 50's pickups.
Really why are they offering 3 different strat models with fat 50's pickups, a 9.5" radius and Jumbo frets. Why can't one of them feature a compound radius or noiseless pickups?

I was excited to see the cabronita jaguar only to find out they changed it to a 25.5" scale.
The only reason I would buy a jaguar is because it would be really different from my strats and tele's because of the different scale.

I know i could order all of those features in a team built custom order but some people just don't do that.

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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:03 am
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Even in pounds sterling the costs are way too high.

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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:02 am
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IMHO...they should be upgrading the hardware for the premium pricing. The tremolo's are basically the same on any USA made guitar. Eventually this fad has to evolve into premium custom components at this price point. Custom pickup sets or limited editions/low number volume will eventually run its course. The market is getting saturated with custom shop instruments of similar designs and eventually the custom shop will have to evolve into something else. You cannot keep re-inventing the wheel, eventually you'll run out of options and new ideas.


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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:09 pm
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I would just as soon purchase one of the new American Vintage guitars.


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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:10 am
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This is an interesting topic - I've wondered myself just how many people's guitars they can recreate before they literally run out of stuff they can reproduce that anyone wants to buy. I have no doubt that the guitars made by the CS are first rate but, as has been pointed out, the greats all used factory-built guitars. I've never really felt the need to get one - although I did buy the 'supervised by Abigail' hand wound pickups, as they were exactly the type of thing I was after.

I think it boils down to people's budgets and what they feel they can justify to themselves. I honestly don't think I require a CS guitar, even though I love seeing them make all this stuff just out of a general interest in electric guitars. I love that the CS exists, but feel no urge to own one of their products. The only thing I've been tempted by is the Esquire with a rosewood board - but if they had a production-line model with a rosewood board, I'd no doubt get that before I'd spend the money on a CS guitar.


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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:20 am
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Hi, first time posting but have been stalking the forums for awhile.

This is an interesting topic. I know for me, I would love to have a CS guitar. Something like the Gilmour Strat, (honestly who would not want that guitar) or a complete custom made for me, but I can buy a Strat off the wall (2011 Clapton in my case) and replace the pups, and with Fender now selling necks, maybe down the line I can get a 7.25 neck for the fraction of the cost and still have an amazing instrument. Sure it won't have the cert of authenticity and the CS logo will not be on it but I will have spent 2k maybe less for an exceptional guitar.

I understand the pull of having the money to spend and the patience to have a guitar crafted to everything that you want, and if I had the budget and time I probably would, but it would be a buy that I would second guess.

I have yet to play a Gilmour Strat, how is it? Everything they say it is?


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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:50 am
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JosephBAllison wrote:
I have yet to play a Gilmour Strat, how is it? Everything they say it is?


Greetings pilgrim, your search is ended.

I own a '08 Gilmour NOS. It's a lovely instrument. Well balanced, I thought, from the first. That little mini-toggle is more bark than bite. It's been said that DG never used it. The neck is different from Fender's modern C, which I do not care for. The Clapton's neck is my preference, I've owned three..currently an '89 Pewter and and '87 prototype [just acquired ]which you can find pics of on the Strat Forum thread ...'Torino Red American Standard'.

Your post, in consideration of this thread which I authored, reflects something of my decision to purchase that guitar in that, IMHO, a Masterbuilt Custom Shop instrument would have priced out similarly and held little of the unique historical value of this Clapton, in that the neck style is not finalized, nor the circuitry for that matter. It is still a 'work in progress' and built for introduction at the '88 NAMM. It complements my other guitar in that the Pewter is two years 'out of the gate' so to speak, with a neck date of early 1990, so it a very early production Clapton Signature Series in excellent condition.

Everything in its time I expect. I played my first Strat in 1958 at the age of 16. Belonged to my bandmate Owned it by the time I was 20. Took me another 50 years before I started acquiring some serious gear. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:44 pm
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Trade you necks haha, just kidding.

I agree with you on the modern C, I don't like it either, the soft V on the Clapton is nice, but... it doesn't fit for me. I played a 57 re-issue that had the 7.25 on it and it felt like a good pair of boots, comfortable and broken in.

As much as I am a fan boy for Fender and Strats it seems odd to me that the lower radius necks are not really offered when they were so popular.

Crossing fingers that Fender will sell them soon, the alternatives are to expensive, or buying from a different company which I am not keen on. I won't buy generic peanut butter so the idea of buying a licensed neck is absurd to me. Just my 2 cents


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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:18 pm
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JosephBAllison wrote:
, the soft V on the Clapton is nice, but... it doesn't fit for me. I played a 57 re-issue that had the 7.25 on it and it felt like a good pair of boots...

The test bed for the Clapton was the '57RI routed for active electronics based upon it's predecessor, the Elite. The neck on the pre-production guitar is a 21 fret 7.25r whose neck carve is more in line with the '57RI which, as you follow The Black Strat, the new neck fitted in the 80's was a '57R. Stringbending on 7.25 chokes high up on the neck hence the move to 9.5 in popularity. The guitar neck on the Clapton morphed to what it is now quite rapidly as his preferences were translated into wood. These days a 12r neck can be found on certain models, compound necks from 9.5>12, and the new American Vintage Hotrod morphs from 7.25>9.5>12. I have an excellent guitar tech who can dress the frets on a 7.25r neck to 12r at what ever position one would want that to begin. There are many things under the sun.

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Post subject: Re: Is the juice still worth the squeeze??
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:24 pm
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JosephBAllison wrote:
As much as I am a fan boy for Fender and Strats it seems odd to me that the lower radius necks are not really offered when they were so popular.


The main difference is string thickness. Where strings back then were .014 to .018, the "standard" now is .009 to .010.
And playing evolved from fingerpicking chords to far more bending and shredding.
Thus necks with a bigger radius works better with the thinner strings and new play styles.

The compound radius allows both - easy barre chords at the nut end for playing Credence, and easy bending and lower action at the bridge end.

However, Fender could, in my opinion, take it one step further. A C neck near the nut for thumb support, changing gradually towards a V neck towards the bridge.


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